Whole new setup, does this seem good?

[BallistaSlim]

Hi,

I would appreciate some advice as I am about to pull the trigger on buying some more serious astrophotography equipment.

I have dabbled around a little during this winter with some simple equipment, and the results have astounded me, so now I am ready to get into this bigtime. I would like to keep the cost down somewhat, so even if cost is not the biggest issue, I don’t want to pay big money for small improvements.

 

Conditions:

1. I live under a Bortle 6-7 sky. I would prefer photographing at a dark site all the time, but unfortunately this won’t be possible. My plan therefore is to collect narrowband from the premise of my own home, and go to a dark site to collect RGB - data. (Bortle 3) Thus I am going mono, and need manoeuvrable gear.
2. I am quite well versed with computers/software as I have worked in the industry for quite some time, so software/processing and stuff like that doesn’t scare me one bit. Otoh I really don’t enjoy hardware tinkering as much even if I am not a complete buffoon.
3. I am quite the perfectionist when it comes to the raw material grabbed. I strive for great pictures. If any of my suggestion would prevent me from doing that please let me know.

What I am thinking of in terms of gear:

Mount:

1. Starwatcher EQ6-R PRO: Tried and tested alternative that is  “good enough” from what I have heard.
2. iOptron CEM70: New and intriguing, higher payload and better precision? More expensive though.

 

Scope:

1. TS-Optics PHOTOLINE 130 mm f/7 with two correctors. 1x and 0.79x. I have seen marvellous results from this scope… (eg. pete_xl on astrobin) But it is heavy. Do I need the CEM70 if I choose this one?
2. Skywatcher Esprit 100. Tried and trusted, and a lot lighter than the above scope. Plus cheaper.

 

Guiding:

Right now, I am definitely considering going without a laptop in lieu of the conditions above, and therefore I am thinking of the Asiair Pro plus guide camera and scope from Zwo. I have also considered the Lacerta MGEN3, but there are disadvantages to that in terms of functionality. Are there any advantages?

Also, are there any downsides for skipping a laptop? Can you reach much better results guiding with one?

 

Camera:

Since I want to go mono, I don’t have that many alternatives:

1. ASI1600MM Pro Again tried and tested. Microlensing issue though…
2. The new upcoming aps-c mono from QHY. Will have to wait for that one though. I am not good at waiting.... 

 

Filters:

Here I´m in the dark. Use Zwos NB-filters? Are they good enough now? This is the hardest part for me to figure out since I have not imaged in NB before.

Autofocus:

Will buy later. 

Appreciate comments on this. Are these good alternatives? Do you have any other suggestions that might be better from a cost/performance point?

 

Thanks –

 

/Ulf

[pete_l]

4 hours ago, BallistaSlim said:

Otoh I really don’t enjoy hardware tinkering as much even if I am not a complete buffoon

Tried and trusted every time.

There are no points for style or perseverance, it is only the results and ease of getting them that count!

[Icesheet]

To me your biggest decision should be around condition 1 and being manoeuvrable. That may have different meanings for different people but I don’t think many would consider an EQ6-R/ CEM70 and 130mm APO with all associated equipment as a mobile unit. I’ve just decided an EQ6-R isn’t even mobile enough for me to move in and out my house! 😂

 

If you’re happy you can shift all that comfortably to a dark site then I would say any combination above could work and none in particular would be the limiting factor in the quality of your images. The CEM70 may be more suited to the 130mm once you start considering the extra weight of imaging equipment though. 
 

Petes advice may be wise. Perhaps it’s safer to choose the tried and trusted as there will be plenty of support and advice available if you are having issues. One thing I would say regarding the scopes is that you might want to consider what focal lengths you want to image at. Native they are quite different at 550mm for Esprit and 910mm for the Photoline. 
 

If you did plump for the Esprit you might want to add the CEM40 or GEM45 to your list as they are a lot more portable than the EQ6-R and CEM70. 

[SamAndrew]

An Autofocuser is essential in my opinion when using a mono camera as you'll want to refocus regularly and between filter changes. Deepskydad is a great value choice if you don't fancy building one yourself.

The EQ6-R isn't portable, you'll need reliable weather conditions if you plan to take that out into the field otherwise you will quickly tire of the setup process. CEM45 plus the Esprit would be a good paring for portability.

CEM70 + a tripod is getting on for 3 times the price of the EQ6-R; the EQ6-R offers excellent performance, I don't think you'd notice the difference between the CME70 and the EQ6-R in the final result.

ZWO filters get the job done - I'd only consider upgrading from these if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket.

[BallistaSlim]

13 hours ago, pete_l said:

Tried and trusted every time.

There are no points for style or perseverance, it is only the results and ease of getting them that count!

Yes, that is what I am thinking as well, even if new and shiny things seems to have some allure...

[BallistaSlim]

9 hours ago, Icesheet said:

To me your biggest decision should be around condition 1 and being manoeuvrable. That may have different meanings for different people but I don’t think many would consider an EQ6-R/ CEM70 and 130mm APO with all associated equipment as a mobile unit. I’ve just decided an EQ6-R isn’t even mobile enough for me to move in and out my house! 😂

 

 

This is an area where I am not that experienced. I am thinking in terms of:

Is it really harder to lug the gear inside my car and put them up on my darksite than doing the same in my backyard? My darksite is basically a cul de sac in the middle of nowhere, where no one else goes, so I don't have to carry my gear more than a couple of metres. Am I completely wrong in thinking like this?

I am also thinking of gathering rgb-data to multiple objects under good conditions when going to the darksite so I hope I won't have to do it that often. 

[BallistaSlim]

1 hour ago, SamAndrew said:

An Autofocuser is essential in my opinion when using a mono camera as you'll want to refocus regularly and between filter changes. Deepskydad is a great value choice if you don't fancy building one yourself.

The EQ6-R isn't portable, you'll need reliable weather conditions if you plan to take that out into the field otherwise you will quickly tire of the setup process. CEM45 plus the Esprit would be a good paring for portability.

CEM70 + a tripod is getting on for 3 times the price of the EQ6-R; the EQ6-R offers excellent performance, I don't think you'd notice the difference between the CME70 and the EQ6-R in the final result.

ZWO filters get the job done - I'd only consider upgrading from these if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket.

Yeah, an autofocuser is something I really want. I will order it as soon as Zwo releases the autofocus option on the Asiair. According to sources it will be anytime now. But while I wait, is it possible even though hard to manually focus?

I am mostly considering the EQ6-R right now, even if it is heavy. Good to hear that the performance seem to be enough. That will save me some money.

The reason I am considering the 130mm scope is basically that I get two scopes in one. With flattener I can get galaxies and small DSO's and with the reducer I can shoot bigger targets. Of course this will demand better guiding, but it is tempting..

Zwo-filters it is then. No hole.

[Icesheet]

6 hours ago, BallistaSlim said:

This is an area where I am not that experienced. I am thinking in terms of:

Is it really harder to lug the gear inside my car and put them up on my darksite than doing the same in my backyard? My darksite is basically a cul de sac in the middle of nowhere, where no one else goes, so I don't have to carry my gear more than a couple of metres. Am I completely wrong in thinking like this?

I am also thinking of gathering rgb-data to multiple objects under good conditions when going to the darksite so I hope I won't have to do it that often. 

In theory probably not, but in practice who knows. Remember you would essentially be lifting in and out four times for each journey away. Packing and unpacking 40+kg of weight from potentially awkward positions in a car is not my idea of fun. However, people do it but just so you’re aware. 
 

If it were me it would be a CEM40/ GEM45 plus Esprit 100ED job too (unless you’re really sure you want a bigger refractor later). With ASIair pro and ZWO cameras/ filters I think you’d have a very nice portable(ish) set up! Plus I would consider getting as much of your narrowband and lum data at your darksite too if possible. 

[BallistaSlim]

Thanks Ice. I have hit a snag though. It seems that the ZWO EAF doesn't play well with the Esprit range of focusers. That means that I have to abandon the thought of going laptopless. Hmm. 

Regarding darksite: My results from my backyard and the darksite have been  incomporable to each other so far in favor of the darksite, but I have thought that the difference when it comes to NB-data is not as huge. Is this wrong? 

/Ulf

[Icesheet]

1 hour ago, BallistaSlim said:

Thanks Ice. I have hit a snag though. It seems that the ZWO EAF doesn't play well with the Esprit range of focusers. That means that I have to abandon the thought of going laptopless. Hmm. 

Regarding darksite: My results from my backyard and the darksite have been  incomporable to each other so far in favor of the darksite, but I have thought that the difference when it comes to NB-data is not as huge. Is this wrong? 

/Ulf

Really! I didn’t know that. I was hoping to go ASI air route with EAF on my Esprit 👎🏻
 

Yes it’s true that NB is more than possible in light polluted skies, even more so if you have the pockets for 3nm filters. However, I’m sure you will go deeper and have much cleaner data in less integration time from the dark site. Someone with more knowledge than me might comment on that. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Icesheet

[DaveS]

I have a TS 130 f/7, and while it's a brilliant 'scope for the money I wouldn't want to be humping it in and out of a car each time I wanted to use it. As far as autofocus is concerned I run a Sesto Senso which I find does the job.

[BallistaSlim]

2 hours ago, DaveS said:

I have a TS 130 f/7, and while it's a brilliant 'scope for the money I wouldn't want to be humping it in and out of a car each time I wanted to use it. As far as autofocus is concerned I run a Sesto Senso which I find does the job.

Why is that though, from the weight? Do you think you will damage it? I'm just curious. 

If I buy the TS scope I will most definitely try with the zwo autofocus, since then I can run everything on Asiair. Guiding, focusing, PA, platesolving, the works.. Or is it a pipedream? 

/Ulf 

[DaveS]

The weight and the moment arm. Remember that it's not just the mass that the mount has to control, it's the moment arm of a long heavy 'scope with big lumps of glass at either end.

Yes, I'm not all that strong, and age has not been kind to my grip, so even with a top dovetail to get a grip on there's always the worry of losing it.

Can't comment on the ZWO kit as I don't have any of it, sorry.

[Wyvernp]

13 hours ago, BallistaSlim said:

Thanks Ice. I have hit a snag though. It seems that the ZWO EAF doesn't play well with the Esprit range of focusers. That means that I have to abandon the thought of going laptopless. Hmm. 

Regarding darksite: My results from my backyard and the darksite have been  incomporable to each other so far in favor of the darksite, but I have thought that the difference when it comes to NB-data is not as huge. Is this wrong? 

/Ulf

I know it's been posted around here a lot when it comes to Imaging time taking into account light pollution but if you haven't already seen it I'd highly recommend watching Robin Glover's talk on cmos/ccd imaging, I have definitely improved my imaging since watching it. 

 

[david_taurus83]

16 hours ago, BallistaSlim said:

Thanks Ice. I have hit a snag though. It seems that the ZWO EAF doesn't play well with the Esprit range of focusers. That means that I have to abandon the thought of going laptopless. Hmm.

Have you considered Stellarmate? Works with many different brands. I used it by connecting to the RPi via VNC with my phone.

The ASIAir never appealed to me as it is only compatible with ZWO products. And as far as I'm aware, it doesn't even have autofocus yet!

Or you could always get a mini PC and run a Windows setup (my current choice). Can connect to the mini PC via RD, VNC etc. I have NINA, APT, Stellarium, CdC, Pixinsight, Sharpcap all loaded on there. Far, far superior to the ASIAir. And all controlled by my phone!

[BallistaSlim]

11 hours ago, DaveS said:

The weight and the moment arm. Remember that it's not just the mass that the mount has to control, it's the moment arm of a long heavy 'scope with big lumps of glass at either end.

Yes, I'm not all that strong, and age has not been kind to my grip, so even with a top dovetail to get a grip on there's always the worry of losing it.

Can't comment on the ZWO kit as I don't have any of it, sorry.

Yeah, I understand that, and to be honest I feel that that scope in particular is maybe a bit to big lugging around. It is tempting though, as I have heard great things about it. 

[BallistaSlim]

46 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

Have you considered Stellarmate? Works with many different brands. I used it by connecting to the RPi via VNC with my phone.

The ASIAir never appealed to me as it is only compatible with ZWO products. And as far as I'm aware, it doesn't even have autofocus yet!

Or you could always get a mini PC and run a Windows setup (my current choice). Can connect to the mini PC via RD, VNC etc. I have NINA, APT, Stellarium, CdC, Pixinsight, Sharpcap all loaded on there. Far, far superior to the ASIAir. And all controlled by my phone!

Yes I have considered it. But I want to keep it really simple this time without worrying about drivers, connectors et al. Autofocus is coming in the next Asiair firmware update allegedly. 

[conspicuity]

On 07/08/2020 at 09:10, BallistaSlim said:

This is an area where I am not that experienced. I am thinking in terms of:

Is it really harder to lug the gear inside my car and put them up on my darksite than doing the same in my backyard? My darksite is basically a cul de sac in the middle of nowhere, where no one else goes, so I don't have to carry my gear more than a couple of metres. Am I completely wrong in thinking like this?

I am also thinking of gathering rgb-data to multiple objects under good conditions when going to the darksite so I hope I won't have to do it that often. 

My garden is surrounded by tall trees, which makes the effort of dragging all the kit across the lawn to the car seem worthwhile. It usually takes half an hour to load up. Half and hour's drive to a reasonable site. Get out the mount, power supplies, scope, guidescope, laptops, cameras, and then realise I've left the counterweight at home.  😪 Do make a good check list. 

[david_taurus83]

25 minutes ago, BallistaSlim said:

Yes I have considered it. But I want to keep it really simple this time without worrying about drivers, connectors et al. Autofocus is coming in the next Asiair firmware update allegedly. 

If all your kit is ZWO then the Air is the obvious choice. Id use it myself, but ive always preferred the variety of choice when it comes to different brands. Why does the EAF not fit the Esprit range? Surely it can be 'persuaded' to fit!

[BallistaSlim]

5 hours ago, Wyvernp said:

I know it's been posted around here a lot when it comes to Imaging time taking into account light pollution but if you haven't already seen it I'd highly recommend watching Robin Glover's talk on cmos/ccd imaging, I have definitely improved my imaging since watching it. 

 

That was very interesting. Thanks!

[BallistaSlim]

48 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

If all your kit is ZWO then the Air is the obvious choice. Id use it myself, but ive always preferred the variety of choice when it comes to different brands. Why does the EAF not fit the Esprit range? Surely it can be 'persuaded' to fit!

Yeah I usually do as well. But I dont know of any other gear (apart from homebuilt) other than the Asiair that will do all things at once.  There are numerous threads on CN about the EAF not fitting the Esprit-focuser. Sure you can find a solution, but I haven't seen an easy one as of yet. I'm lazy in that way...

[dannybgoode]

2 hours ago, BallistaSlim said:

Yes I have considered it. But I want to keep it really simple this time without worrying about drivers, connectors et al. Autofocus is coming in the next Asiair firmware update allegedly. 

I’ve just starting using Astroberry which is essentially the free version of Stellarmate and consequently a little more fiddly. Even then it was so straightforward. 

Create a new profile by clicking a button, use drop downs to pick your kit and press connect-job done. It was much easier than setting up ASCOM on my Windows 10 machine. 

Drivers etc were a complete non-issues and completely invisible when setting up.