First Scope Daughter and I

[hms_furious]

I hope you can help me. 

I've promised to buy my 10 year old daughter a telescope for her birthday. Now secretly this is something I have been excited to get into so this is a great opportunity to jump into a new world and hopefully something we can share together. 

So looking for something we can both use and enjoy but can grow with us if we really get into this, so not a basic beginners scope. Ideally easy to find things but I think it may be better to learn the sky. I am sure we'd enjoy planet spotting but stars and deep space sounds amazing too so probably an all rounder. 

We have done the binoculars part already so I know she is interested. 

I'm thinking £300 is a decent budget to start but happy with higher or lower if there is a good reason to. 

Looks like I may need new eye pieces and a sky atlas so best buys their would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks

 

[Red Top Miguel]

Good Evening HMS Furious,

Im a newbie so can’t really advise, but I’m sure somebody vastly more experienced than me will be here shortly. This is a great forum for all things astronomy and more! With a name like that your not Navy/Ex Navy are you?

Enjoy & Welcome Mick

[hms_furious]

Hi Mick, 

Alas not, sorry to disappoint. I'm a bit of a ww2 historian and my accounts tend to end up on the last thing I was looking at. Allied only of course otherwise it could end up quite awkward if you call yourself Tirpitz or Bismarck

I've lurked a little bit on here and read a little but can't quite find what I need. 

Have obviously looking on FLO too and similar. Too much choice!

 

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi @hms_furious & daughter and welcome to SGL.

If you want something just to plonk down and start observing, then I would consider this...
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

or its smaller sibling...
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html

Edited June 26, 2020 by Philip R

[uhb1966]

I'm certainly no pro, but to start things up, i would nowadays ONLY start with the following things

1- a good deck chair with arms rests - in your case 2 desk chairs

2- a wellpriced 11x70 binocular like for example: https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2005_TS-Optics-11x70-LE-Porro-Prism-Binoculars---perfect-for-twilight-and-night.html

3- a free star map application like stellarium or CDC.

Only if you and your daughter start using the binos on a regular basis, it's time for the next step. 

PS the arm rests are vital bc that bino gets VERY HEAVY with time!

Best, and have fun!! U.

[RT65CB-SWL]

'Turn Left At Orion' (a.k.a. TLAO) is highly recommended for beginners by other SGL'ers.

[Red Top Miguel]

Hi again,
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
This book is a must, I got mine for Father’s Day and it’s so informative! 
My telescope is a “Sky-Watcher Explorer 130PS AZ5 Deluxe”. 
I bought this one following advice from “JohnInDerby” it’s been great since I’ve bought it, so much so my wife has even started to come out at night with me! 
I’ve since added to my setup with some new eye pieces as the standard ones only get you so far (remember to factor that into your costs as some are cheap and some or not, something I’ve not told my wife 😱) I also recommend at least a moon filter or variable polarising moon filter, a lesson learnt following my first night out the moon was very bright.

I only asked about the HMS as I’m Navy! It’s definitely worth cruising around the other forums as you will learn so much! 
Enjoy Mick

Edited June 26, 2020 by Red Top Miguel

[hms_furious]

Thanks for your replies so far. The 200p was on my watch list. Always wonder of course if there is something better or different I should be looking at. What I don't want to do is buy and regret and wish i had something else. 

[hms_furious]

5 minutes ago, Red Top Miguel said:

Hi again,
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
This book is a must, I got mine for Father’s Day and it’s so informative! 
My telescope is a “Sky-Watcher Explorer 130PS AZ5 Deluxe”. 
I bought this one following advice from “JohnInDerby” it’s been great since I’ve bought it, so much so my wife has even started to come out at night with me! 
I’ve since added to my setup with some new eye pieces as the standard ones only get you so far (remember to factor that into your costs as some are cheap and some or not, something I’ve not told my wife 😱) I also recommend at least a moon filter or variable polarising moon filter, a lesson learnt following my first night out the moon was very bright.

I only asked about the HMS as I’m Navy! It’s definitely worth cruising around the other forums as you will learn so much! 
Enjoy Mick

What's the difference between that and the 200p? Obviously looks but I am struggling to know what the differences are between makes, models and types. Thanks 

[Red Top Miguel]

Hi Again,

If you are referring to the Dobsonian 200p/150p then compared to mine quite a lot. I will post the telescope links below:

This is mine:
1.https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az5-deluxe.html

The 200p Dobsonian 
2.https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

The Dobsonian is a great telescope and many people swear by it and the only thing that put me off it was it’s a lot bigger than I wanted and not as portable “The best telescope is the one you use”! 
 

I listed a few things I thought about prior to buying:

1. Budget (including extra bits like eyepieces, filters & Barlow).

2. What do I want to use it for? (Planets, Moons, Deep Sky Objects).

3. Where am I going to use it (Home, Dark Sites, Camping/Holidays). 

It might be worth stating what you want using the points above and I’m sure someone in SGL will be able to point you in the right direction! 

Hope this helps! Mick

Edited June 26, 2020 by Red Top Miguel

[Chaz2b]

I’m guessing your daughter, and you, have access to a smartphone? Yes? Then download SkySafari, tiz free! And a moon app. This will get her fingers walking across the starry night and both of you can learn from it.

 I have Starrynight pro, monies involved here, but it gives a tremendous amount to learn from.

As for a beginners scope? You’ll probably get as many different answers as replies, look up the review to each suggestion and any more that you can find. If you find one that can come with moon filters etc all the better, but binoculars, 10x50, will cover most bases , and are your best friend, easy to use...instantly, and can pass between you both when you have your scope.

clear skies to you both.

chaz

 

 

 

 

[Girders]

Hi HMS_Furious,

While most people will rightly tell you that a large Dobsonian will get you the best views for your money, and that having a GoTo computerised scope eats your budget at the expense of the important optical bits, I always want to highlight some of the issues I've encountered over the last couple of years with my daughter.  She's now 6, so a good bit younger than your daughter but I think some of this will apply to a greater or lesser extent...

GoTo computerised control for finding things I can take or leave, but the tracking it provides is a must for me.  At the magnification required for planets, they move across the eyepiece fairly quickly.  If you're regularly "taking turns" at the eyepiece it's easy for things to drift out of view while changing over.  And even if you can do it quickly enough, keeping it in view with a gentle nudge or turns of slow-mo cables is an acquired skill. As you've already been spending time with binoculars, you'll likely be aware of this, but have a realistic idea of how often you'll be able to use it - and particularly with your daughter.  Between weather and planetary positions chances of viewing at child friendly hours (especially when avoiding schoolnights) can be few and far between.  You'll no doubt have better weather than me in Glasgow, but in 2 years I've probably had 25-30 decent nights - and probably only half a dozen or so that she could participate in.  And half of those would be limited to the moon.  With an older daughter you'll have more options - especially if you are ok for light pollution and get a scope big enough to be useful for galaxies, nebulas etc.  

Lastly, even at 10, using an eyepiece is a skill, and we found it frustrating that I could never be sure she was seeing what she should have been able to see.  Smartphone adapters can be useful for this, but can be tricky to get good results with.   Good Luck!

[Waddensky]

Welcome to the SGL!

For the budget, an 8" dobson is a great choice. It's often recommended for beginners because it offers the most aperture for the price and it's easy to set up and operate. It's also a great allrounder, nice views of planets, star clusters, nebulae and galaxies.

There are a few things to consider though. First, you need to master the craft of 'star hopping'. Dobsons are scopes you push to your target manually. It's not difficult and fun to do, and considering you have experience with binoculars, I'm quite sure this won't be a problem for you. A good star chart or app will help. Second, as Girders points out, because a dobson doesn't track objects, your targets drift out of view quite fast at higher magnifications (because the Earth rotates!). When I'm doing outreach, I regularly need to check if the object is still in the field of view. If you enjoy the night sky with your daughter and help her to locate objects, that's something to keep in mind. Third, a dobson is a bit cumbersome. The tube is large, the base is heavy. Not too large, not too heavy, but something to keep in mind or perhaps to experience at a star party or in a shop before you buy one.

Good luck with your choice, and have a lot of fun!

[hms_furious]

Thanks again all. The GoTo has popped up. That's probably what I am torn about the most thinking about it. Knowing the use cases, would a GoTo be a better idea and if so what sort of one? As I say, happy to spend some more if it is a good long term investment. 

[JeremyS]

I had a similar decision to make when my daughter was 7. I got the Sky-Watcher 150 Dobsonian for her 7th birthday, which several above have mentioned. We used it a lot together and she did various school projects about it. It was simple to use, not too heavy to carry (I always carried it for her - being quick to set up and no fiddling with alignment for GoTo etc is really important) and excellent quality. Very good value. Personally, I'd do the same again. If interests continue (hers or yours) you can always get a larger, more sophisticated, GoTo telescope later.

Time rolled on. She's just celebrated her 25th birthday and is a junior doctor. I still use the telescope sometimes and occasionally she asks to as well, I think partly to recall those happy days. I'm sure this was one factor that got her into science.

So you are doing a wonderful thing, @hms_furious

Edited June 27, 2020 by JeremyS

[Nyctimene]

I'd vote for one of the Skywatcher Heritage P Flextube scopes - the 130 P, or it's younger and slightly larger brother, the150 P. The 130 P is lightweight (6.5 kgs, the tube 3.1), compact, and easy to handle, almost intuitively. Your 10 year old daughter can manage it completely on her own - very important. The optics are excellent, and hold collimation well. It's easily transportable to dark sky areas or during holidays. For good reasons, it's my most used grab-and-go scope. I've added a ES 26mmf/62° LER eyepiece for widefield, a 8-24 zoom (Seben; or Celestron), and a shorty Baader 2.25x Turret Barlow to cover a range of magnifications from 25x to 183x. That's all you need (-ok, the Pocket Sky Atlas ,and the apps SkySafari 6 Plus, along with LunarMap HD). Years of observing pleasure guaranteed - for both daughter and father!

Many pleased owners on here; and, for good reasons, the CloudyNights thread on this scope is humongous (the AWB  Ons Sky Newtonian scope is the US brand; same specifications):

OneSky Newtonian - Astronomers without borders - Beginners Forum - Cloudy Nights

Stephan

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Nyctimene

[bomberbaz]

I think a 200P LINK would be a really great starter scope.  It is the dobsonian style so very easy to use and should be a useful height for your daughter (and you) to use. It comes with 2 eyepieces. The 25mm is fine, the 10 pretty naff. 

So you will break you £300 budget as you will require another eyepiece and in this scope, which has a focal ratio just under F6 a BST will perform very well https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces/bst-starguider-60-8mm-ed-eyepiece.html

I did consider the heritage 150P but I think you will benefit in the long run with the 200P due to the greater aperture and the longer focal ratio. Longer focal ratio means amongst other things less aberrations is lower priced eyepieces such as the bst. 

A sky map will be very useful although you can download a lot of apps for free to your phone or better still, a tablet. Try stellarium, goskywatch or skysafari. You could try these. Stellarium is free for PC/laptop and is great for planning your sessions.

I have an old copy of turn left at orion that I will let you have for free if you cover the postage to help you and your daughter get a few ideas going forward. However the best way of finding out things to look at though in my opinion is playing around on stellarium and reading reports on here.  Don't be afraid to ask questions.

There are many things you could carry on buying but I think the package above would provide a very solid beginners platform for you.

Steve

[hms_furious]

Thanks all, I thought I had checked for new posts so apologies for not replying sooner. Some really helpful pointers. 

[doubledoubleswifty]

I think this book should be quite good for a 10 year old 🙂

StarFinder For Beginners - https://www.amazon.co.uk/StarFinder-Beginners-Maggie-Aderin-Pocock/dp/0241286832

 

[bomberbaz]

Don't know if you are still mulling things over Re: goto. So I have put below three options that might interest you along with basic info.

This is the 8" version of skywatchers flextube. trouble is, it is way over budget. Then in addition you need a power source, cable which can be tripped over and pulled out etc, part of the reason I ditched mine tbh. On the plus size it is small(ish), easy to cart around and store and will show you plenty of deep sky objects and should keep you happy for many years.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html

Then there is pushto, marginally cheaper but you manually push the scope to where the handset tells you based upon whatever object is selected. However these operate on a single 9V twin point battery and are easily as accurate as a goto.

Again over budget but it is also 8" and you will find it a lot easier to get along with going forwards imho. As above will show you lots of deep sky objects but as it is a solid tube you will need a little more storage space, not much though, it isn't huge. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orion-SkyQuest-IntelliScope-Dobsonian-Telescope/dp/B000P2ZPB2

Finally another option to consider is the AZ GTi WIFI mount with a 127 maksutov and it a proper goto. You are giving up quite a bit of aperture here but it has no wires as it operates on 8 AA batteries, these last ages. It is operated from a smartphone such as an Iphone so might appeal to the younger audience. Cost is quite a bit lower too although still over budget. Also the 127 is very forgiving on eyepieces so you wont need to buy top of the range stuff. However it is more suited to planetary and moon but will be fine for clusters and globulars/double stars too. You will also see brighter nebula with this and larger galaxies. Also this will pack away into a small space to once it is broken down for storage.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

Sadly there is no one size fits all. Most telescopes will perform to some extent on all sky objects it is just that some are better suited to different objects (IE galaxies, planets, double stars) than others. It's all about compromise. 

hope this helps.

Steve

[dd999]

Could you see your daughter spending the time to learn, or do you think she may get bored if things become time consuming and a little frustrating (and they can!)?

I'm thinking of my own here. If it were me I would be looking a goto with tracking. If she is smartphone savvy (like most children) there are even wifi controlled telescopes through your phone or tablet. This means everything becomes very instant and dynamic.

Personally I'd also recommend one of Steve's suggestions with the AZ GTi goto. It's relatively low cost, and a great beginner idea to cut out some of the learning frustrations - especially where kids are concerned. I don't think it spoils the fun of discovery, actually quite the opposite. Especially if you pair it with a planeterium app such as SkySafari. You can literaly view the night sky on your phone or tablet, select a star, nebula, galaxy or planet and with the press of a button tell the scope to go there. 

You will lose a bit on aperture but if this were me, this would be the way I would go. The AZ GTi (or AZ GTe - similar thing really) with the Sky Watcher 130ps scope may be a good starter scope too. Brand new these are £350 so close to your budget.

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by dd999

[bomberbaz]

That is another very good option there @dd999 and certainly worth considering at the lower price. Also with it being a relatively small newtonian it should hold collimation a bit better than say the 200 size.

On the down side it is F5 so will be less forgiving on eyepieces (compromise again)

[cletrac1922]

First of all welcome to both of you from Land Down Under

The first thing you want to ask yourself, do I want a scope purely for viewing, of further down the track get involved in astro photography

For purely viewing you cannot go far wrong with either a 8" or 10" Flex Dob

Have enclosed a pic of my 10" Dob, taken at a club public viewing night last year, before the current pandemic swept the globe

The scope in background with a shroud is an 8" Flex Dob

The second pic is my ED80 on an EQ5pro mount, taken at a club solar viewing day

Have a 7yo grandson, who shares the passion with me as well

For map charts, you cannot go far wrong with Stellarium 

John 

 

[hms_furious]

Thanks again. I think I am resigned to spending some more money here....

She is of the instant gratification age so maybe a goto could capture her interest and then use orion book etc to get the exploration part going. I presume gotos can be controlled manually? 

Can anyone shed any light on different mounts? Is this the same as a Dob 200p for instance? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200p-eq5-goto.html

What would the advantages be of a tripod type mount instead? 

Very confused! 

Thanks 

[dd999]

Yes gotos can be manually controlled. The AZ Gti (or AZ GTe) mentioned above can be controlled by up, down, left, right arrow buttons on the phone or tablet app - or you can select an object and hit goto to take you there. 

Or you can go old school and manually move the telescope by hand to choose an object. 

If you do look at these mounts one piece of advice (from someone who has just bought one) if you feel you may want to move the telescope by hand as well as using the app in the same night - the AZ GTi may be a better choice. 

This is simply because the AZ GTi remembers its position. So if you align, start using the app to manually control or goto - but then decide to move it by hand to quickly point the telescope to something interesting you see - it'll remember where it was and you can pick up via the app from where you left off. So no need to do the realignment again. 

The AZ GTe doesn't remember where it was so if you do this you need to start the alignment again (about a 5-10min job) if you want to go back to goto mode. 

A lot of detail I know - but someone pointed this out on here before I bought, and was enough to convince me of the AZ GTi over the AZ GTe. 

I'll leave it to the dob experts for the other question.