Skywatcher 150PDS EQ5 v Celston 5/6se

[NallyFace]

Hello, 

 

First up I am sorry for asking this, I am sure it goes on and on as we newbies pop up asking the same thing in different ways.  

 

I have spent hours now reading forums, FB groups and reviews. With some recent help on FB from a lovely man I have (I think) come down to two options. Skywatcher 150PDS on an EQ5 (HEQ is too expensive for me) or the Celstron 5 or 6se. 

 

My aim is to have a scope that is easy to move about, take camping ect - so the Celstron stood out. However, I want a good allrounder, the bonus of being able to take some pics with my Nikon DS200 would be great, I won't ever be in to full commitment AP but to be able to start getting some good pics would be cool. The EQ5 mount gives me the option of using another scope later if I want to but I suspect this may be as far as I go. I would also love to see some deep space stuff. 

 

Who has both or has had both and what do you think I should get? 

 

Is there another scope I should be adding to the short list? 

 

Thanks for ant help helping me to finally decide on which to get. 

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

The two outfits you cite are radically different, so you need to decide whether you want a visual scope outfit (5SE or 6SE) or an imaging outfit (150PDS +EQ5).  The latter could also be used for visual, but it is a less portable outfit, and IMHO the Celestron Nexstar software and SE mount is a lot easier to use than the Skywatcher Synscan on a EQ5.

[happy-kat]

Hi

Neither outfit I would personally consider for camping trips, neither are small (5SE is smallest but 6SE has better mount of the two) the eq5 and 150pds is the biggest heaviest.

If camping is looking for more portable and size/weight influenced I think I would look at the skyeatcher az-gti mount and then consider which telescope for it best suits your needs both as a hobby and to fit in with camping etc. This mount by default works in alt/az but can be used in eq mode if the photographing desire grows past what is capable in alt/az mode. The mount has tracking and goto and is compact and light but can carry I think it is upto 5 kg it won't carry a 150p but it does get bundled with a 127mm mak (not dissimilar to 5SE telescope though I would only use that combo in alt/az). I've used neither but I've seen it used on this forum).

Edited May 30, 2020 by happy-kat

[russ]

We have the C6 which we love a lot. Just a great scope. I used to team it up with our steel tripod equipped AZ4 and take it camping with us.  But its bigger than you think, especially when room is tight as it always is when camping. And i quickly found it was essential to still have the powertank and heated dew straps along too, the corrector plate dews up in seconds. Which defeated the point of taking the fully manual AZ4. 

Anyway i bought a small refractor (Astrotech AT66) for the camping. Its rock steady on the AZ4 and just perfect under dark skies. So perhaps maybe Skywatcher ED80 on the Skywatcher AZ-GTI that HK recommended could be a good alternative.

 

[Dr Strange]

The main difference will be field of view and perceived magnification. The Skywatcher is going to give you a wide field where you can see more stuff in the eyepiece but objects will look smaller. The 5/6SE will mean a more narrow field of view with less stuff in the eyepiece to look at but objects will look bigger and you will see more detail on them. By stuff I mean stars for the most part.

The other big difference will be size. The HEQ5 and Skywatcher will be quite large and heavier. However the SE is really not designed for astro photography (AP). It can be done but you are really limited to about 10-15 second exposures. The HEQ5 is designed to do AP. And you can expect 90 second+ exposures without having to guide. Guiding is where you have a second camera take pictures and send updates/changes to the mount to keep whatever you are imaging in the same place on the camera.

So you will want to decide what your main purpose it. If it is looking at things as well as portability then the 6SE will be the better choice. If it is taking pictures then the HEQ/Skywatcher will be the better choice.

However there is a "best of both worlds" option. That would be buying the HEQ5/Skywatcher and getting one of the Skywatcher AZ-GTi packages. The AZ-GTi package will be easy to take with you camping. The closest you will get to the 6SE would be their 127mm Skymax package. You could also just buy a 6" SCT Optical Tube Assembly (OTA).

Something to keep in mind. For visual quality aperture is king. That means the bigger the scope with the best lenses or mirrors you can afford is what you want because you will see more detail and objects will be brighter. There is a caveat there. That being too big and too heavy and you will look for reasons not to use it. Many people get into this hobby, get hooked, then go on a "aperture fever" binge getting bigger and bigger mounts and telescopes until they realize that they went too big and too heavy.  For AP aperture is way down the list. it is quality of the mount followed by quality of lenses or mirrors and the camera used. Bigger is not better in AP.

Here are some links to the products I am talking about:

AZ-GTi Skymax: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

AZ-GTi Explorer 130 (this is nice because it will give you much wider views than the Skymax): https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az-gti.html

Celestron 6" OTA: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/optical-tube-assemblies/celestron-c6-xlt-optical-tube-assembly.html 

[NallyFace]

40 minutes ago, Dr Strange said:

However there is a "best of both worlds" option. That would be buying the HEQ5/Skywatcher and getting one of the Skywatcher AZ-GTi packages. The AZ-GTi package will be easy to take with you camping. The closest you will get to the 6SE would be their 127mm Skymax package. You could also just buy a 6" SCT Optical Tube Assembly (OTA).

Something to keep in mind. For visual quality aperture is king. That means the bigger the scope with the best lenses or mirrors you can afford is what you want because you will see more detail and objects will be brighter. There is a caveat there. That being too big and too heavy and you will look for reasons not to use it. Many people get into this hobby, get hooked, then go on a "aperture fever" binge getting bigger and bigger mounts and telescopes until they realize that they went too big and too heavy.  For AP aperture is way down the list. it is quality of the mount followed by quality of lenses or mirrors and the camera used. Bigger is not better in AP.

Here are some links to the products I am talking about:

AZ-GTi Skymax: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

AZ-GTi Explorer 130 (this is nice because it will give you much wider views than the Skymax): https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az-gti.html

Celestron 6" OTA: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/optical-tube-assemblies/celestron-c6-xlt-optical-tube-assembly.html 

Hi, thanks all for the replies, really appreciate the time taken. 

Just to be clear, is the suggestion getting a 150 scope and the HEQ5 mount hhttps://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/sky-watcher-heq5-pro-with-rowan-belt-mod-upgrade.html  and then also getting one of the AZ-GTI packages and having both? or mixing the two in some way? I could get either of the AZ-GTI packages or the SW scope and mount, if I can get a mount 2nd hand, but not both. I will have around £800 in total around.

Thanks again

[NallyFace]

Also, the 6” SCT looks great, is that a best of both worlds? I’ve been trying to find out how it works with mounts. Would this have to be used with the HEQ5 or would it fit one of the Az-GTI mounts? Sorry for my lack of knowledge! 🙄

[Cosmic Geoff]

11 hours ago, NallyFace said:

Just to be clear, is the suggestion getting a 150 scope and the HEQ5 mount hhttps://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/sky-watcher-heq5-pro-with-rowan-belt-mod-upgrade.html  and then also getting one of the AZ-GTI packages and having both? or mixing the two in some way? I could get either of the AZ-GTI packages or the SW scope and mount, if I can get a mount 2nd hand, but not both. I will have around £800 in total around.

Ideally you need two different outfits to fulfil your requirements. How you square this with a 800 pound budget is up to you.

21 minutes ago, NallyFace said:

Also, the 6” SCT looks great, is that a best of both worlds? I’ve been trying to find out how it works with mounts. Would this have to be used with the HEQ5 or would it fit one of the Az-GTI mounts? Sorry for my lack of knowledge! 🙄

If you check the online catalogues you will see that the Celestron C6 is offered bundled with an unusual variety of mounts, from an AZ-Gti or SLT (potentially rather wobbly ) to a costly AVX or EVolution mount.  The SE bundle is probably the best compromise for visual use. You may find that some of the bundles cost no more than the OTA!

[NallyFace]

So would the OTA give me the same sort of thing as a 6SE but with more options further along the line if I got it with an AZ-GTI mount? So I can then attach something like Skywatcher 150 if and when I wanted to do more AP? Or are they not compatible? I’m tempted to just get a AZ-GTI explore and be done there. In years to come maybe I then get a different mount like he HEQ5. Or would it be advisable now if I can to get the OTA and the AZ mount. Man I’m confused what’s the right choice. So many options. 

[happy-kat]

Choosing may involve compromises it's deciding what fits into your life better so it excites the hobby and gets used and added to along the way but not replaced so quick that it didn't work for you at all.

150 is too big for az-gti I think

You don't need a telescope to image you can use camera lenses as many DSO are very large, some are small so nothing necessarily does all. Planets and Moon like focal length where maks can come in. You can't use a DSLR on the 130p unless camera is mirrorless(might be ok) otherwise it will not come into focus. Need the PDS range for that, I'm not sure if I've seen anyone use that 130pds on the az-gti as it is heavier then the bundled 130p I think. 

The az-gti has fiddling potential as there is a free firmware to install that gives EQ operation (I wouldn't personally use it in eq mode with the 127mm on it) and is small and light. The 6SE has some imaging potential but you'd be working within the limitations or I think you can use a wedge. There is no one option that does everything really well but they'll be an option that fits what you hope to do reasonably. There's no rush the sky is going nowhere.

You may decide that binoculars would work for you camping and for home size/weight doesn't matter. And for camping a star adventurer for your camera for imaging.

I would suggest you watch some YouTube vids and read posts on here to help see what stuff looks like and does.

[SimM]

HEQ5 Pro is a very good choice but it also uses most (all) of the £800 budget. 6SE is a package, if you manage to upgrade it then you will have replaced the scope and the mount - what’s left? Add a wedge and you’ve spent a good bit more money.

A S/H AVX Mount (they seem to be “unloved” at the moment)? An AVX Mount with a Starter scope (not much more than the Mount itself)? A manual non-GOTO Mount and/or package (upgrade it later)?

Aperture fever also extends to the mount. Too big and you won’t get it out again?

Simon

[OregonEAA]

If you get the SE6, I would recommend getting the FR6.3 for use with your DSLR. I have a C5 on that mount and it is a very versatile system (I sometimes mount my C8 on the SE mount also). If you like imaging (short exposure), you can get a program called SharpCap (Brit made, it is brilliant software) and Nikon Backyard and your SE system with the focal reducer can  produce some great images (see the EAA forum here and on Cloudynights). Unfortunately they don't sell the SE C6/C8 mount with the C5 the mount it comes with is very similar to the SLT. The mount that comes with the SE6/8 will be good for a long time unless you go all in for imaging. You can get a small lithium battery for the SE mount and let your DSLR take images and process them when you get home (you should still be able to see many objects in high ISO (1600) 10-15 second images (max time for the SE Mount).

You should be able to find the FR6.3 used, and there is now a more expensive f4 reducer (Starzona  (sp) brand) which would also be good.

From visual to short exposure imaging, a SE C6 is a scope that will keep you engaged for a long time. And even after you "go big" it will have value in being that easy to use light setup. 

My SE mount and C5/C8 gets used a lot more than my AZ-EQ Sirius with the C8/ES102 double mounted just because of ease of use. No one setup is perfect but I find the value of an SE setup a tool that gives me enough choices that even if it was my only setup I would be a happy astronomer.

 

[NallyFace]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I am very close to calling it on the 6SE. Could someone explain to me a little more about the C6 OTA and what mount or tripod that would need? I doubt it will be affordable. Imagining is a bonus here, not a must have.

I will then compare the C6 OTA with a tripod v the 6SE and get whichever offers the best overall.

Edit:

See but now i want the Evolustion 6SCT after reading this

Any idea if deals will come around again to bring it closer to what I can afford?

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by NallyFace

[SimM]

I had the same dilemma. It seemed that every day I clearly knew what I would buy and the next day it was completely different. If you haven't watched Slymin on Youtube - he clearly likes Celestron but he is also quick to tell you what he doesn't like e.g. after 4 years with an SE some of the bits that come with it are not to his liking and he doesn't think much of the Celestron EP sets/filters as value for money. If nothing else he does (I think) help someone reach a better understanding of what stuff is going to do for them.

The C6 OTA is available in three colours: dark blue (C6 OTA), grey (Evolution) and orange (SE) - it's important to realise they are all exactly the same. To get better you have to move to the EdgeHD.

SE is an Alt/Az tripod - compared to the C6 OTA you pay about £250 to include the tripod.

Evolution is also an Alt/Az tripod. It includes three extras: WiFi with SkyPortal? (cut down version of Safari 6 Plus currently £5 and a far better version), lithium battery and slightly improved mount (more stable) and  with clutches. Considering that the Evolution is more expensive, it can be used with a wedge that's designed for it but it lacks a guide port? PEC?

AVX is an Equatorial Mount and available with a range of scopes including C6 OTA either together or bought separately. You can use it with a Refractor or a bigger OTA.

If you are considering the AVX then the mount is really separate e.g. a SkyWatcher or Celestron are mostly the same. Some folks will tell you that SkyWatcher has better mechanics on their mounts and others that the Celestron HC is easier to use. Most people won't have used both so they clearly have a bias (or hate) for what they have.

Your £800 budget won't quite buy the 6 SE, it certainly won't buy the Evolution and clearly not the AVX version. One advantage of the least expensive option is that if you decide it's not for you you haven't committed too much money and you will likely be able to sell it on. Spending 10x as much won't ensure you settle with the hobby either.

Only you can put a price on the advantages of the Evolution - if you used a computer then you might be better off with a low cost lead, if you powered other equipment e.g. a camera and/or a dew shield would the PSU in the Evolution buy you anything, how often would you use the clutches. If you bought the Evolution and bought a wedge, would it cost more than the versatile AVX package? If you were buying an AVX would a C5 save you much money or a C8 cost much more (at FLO it currently wouldn't and they give you a camera too).

Simon

[NallyFace]

13 hours ago, SimM said:

I had the same dilemma. It seemed that every day I clearly knew what I would buy and the next day it was completely different. If you haven't watched Slymin on Youtube - he clearly likes Celestron but he is also quick to tell you what he doesn't like e.g. after 4 years with an SE some of the bits that come with it are not to his liking and he doesn't think much of the Celestron EP sets/filters as value for money. If nothing else he does (I think) help someone reach a better understanding of what stuff is going to do for them.

The C6 OTA is available in three colours: dark blue (C6 OTA), grey (Evolution) and orange (SE) - it's important to realise they are all exactly the same. To get better you have to move to the EdgeHD.

SE is an Alt/Az tripod - compared to the C6 OTA you pay about £250 to include the tripod.

Evolution is also an Alt/Az tripod. It includes three extras: WiFi with SkyPortal? (cut down version of Safari 6 Plus currently £5 and a far better version), lithium battery and slightly improved mount (more stable) and  with clutches. Considering that the Evolution is more expensive, it can be used with a wedge that's designed for it but it lacks a guide port? PEC?

AVX is an Equatorial Mount and available with a range of scopes including C6 OTA either together or bought separately. You can use it with a Refractor or a bigger OTA.

If you are considering the AVX then the mount is really separate e.g. a SkyWatcher or Celestron are mostly the same. Some folks will tell you that SkyWatcher has better mechanics on their mounts and others that the Celestron HC is easier to use. Most people won't have used both so they clearly have a bias (or hate) for what they have.

Your £800 budget won't quite buy the 6 SE, it certainly won't buy the Evolution and clearly not the AVX version. One advantage of the least expensive option is that if you decide it's not for you you haven't committed too much money and you will likely be able to sell it on. Spending 10x as much won't ensure you settle with the hobby either.

Only you can put a price on the advantages of the Evolution - if you used a computer then you might be better off with a low cost lead, if you powered other equipment e.g. a camera and/or a dew shield would the PSU in the Evolution buy you anything, how often would you use the clutches. If you bought the Evolution and bought a wedge, would it cost more than the versatile AVX package? If you were buying an AVX would a C5 save you much money or a C8 cost much more (at FLO it currently wouldn't and they give you a camera too).

Simon

Hello

Thanks for the detailed reply. Interesting you mention the C8, is that the C8 SLT? I could fit that to a AVX right and add a WiFi adapter? 

Thanks for the YouTube heads up also, I watched some of his vids last night 👍

[toshapetriji]

Have you considered second hand equipment?

 

 

[NallyFace]

10 minutes ago, toshapetriji said:

Have you considered second hand equipment?

 

 

I have, there is a C8 SLT up at the moment that has my interest. I’m expecting it to go for too much money though I’d like to try if possible. Then save a little more for the rest. After reading about the Evo I’d like to try and get some of that functionality at the end of this. Idea of controlling with an app appeals to me a lot. 

[happy-kat]

The downside of controlling by an app on a phone is winter and cold fingers!

[Edward Dewolf]

16 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

The downside of controlling by an app on a phone is winter and cold fingers!

Touch screen enabled gloves, easy hacks for those

[SimM]

7 hours ago, NallyFace said:

I have, there is a C8 SLT up at the moment that has my interest. I’m expecting it to go for too much money though I’d like to try if possible. Then save a little more for the rest.

C8 is a perfect choice! It has sufficient aperture whilst also being relatively portable. If you can get it or put it on a decent Equatorial GOTO mount - all the better for it.

If you have a laptop you can connect it directly to a mount and control it, but also collect images as you take them, also guide the mount with the computer monitoring through a guide camera and keeping the main image on target  (if that's going to be your thing).

On 30/05/2020 at 18:53, NallyFace said:

I won't ever be in to full commitment AP but to be able to start getting some good pics would be cool.

The EQ5 mount gives me the option of using another scope later if I want to but I suspect this may be as far as I go.

I would also love to see some deep space stuff.

Who knows, you may even have to revisit some of what you originally said you wanted to do!

The Evolution will be beneficial for some folks, but the WiFi won't mean much when you've connected your laptop with a cable and the built in battery won't power your camera and other equipment. Remembering too the 500's rule especially if you did go Alt/Az.

Simon

[NallyFace]

1 hour ago, SimM said:

C8 is a perfect choice! It has sufficient aperture whilst also being relatively portable. If you can get it or put it on a decent Equatorial GOTO mount - all the better for it.

If you have a laptop you can connect it directly to a mount and control it, but also collect images as you take them, also guide the mount with the computer monitoring through a guide camera and keeping the main image on target  (if that's going to be your thing).

Who knows, you may even have to revisit some of what you originally said you wanted to do!

The Evolution will be beneficial for some folks, but the WiFi won't mean much when you've connected your laptop with a cable and the built in battery won't power your camera and other equipment. Remembering too the 500's rule especially if you did go Alt/Az.

Simon

So this is the scope, is this actually the C8 SLT or the earlier discontinued model? 
 

[Cosmic Geoff]

The picture shows a C8 optical tube assembly. If you are bothered, you can work out what it was bundled with (or not) by the colour.  For example, orange tubes are sold with a SE mount. The one in the picture is probably an OTA (sold without any mount.) All C8 OTAs are the same regardless of colour (disregarding the EDGE HD variant).  And there is no such thing as a C8 SLT. Did you mean XLT - the more recent ones have the "Starbright XLT" coating, and you can identify these by the 'Starbright XLT' sticker on the tube.

I don't know what you mean by discontinued, as the C8 OTA has been in production (with minor variations) for about 40 years.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Cosmic Geoff

[NallyFace]

2 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

The picture shows a C8 optical tube assembly. If you are bothered, you can work out what it was bundled with (or not) by the colour.  For example, orange tubes are sold with a SE mount. The one in the picture is probably an OTA (sold without any mount.) All C8 OTAs are the same regardless of colour (disregarding the EDGE HD variant).  And there is no such thing as a C8 SLT.

I don't know what you mean by discontinued, as the C8 OTA has been in production (with minor variations) for about 40 years.

I think I meant SCT. Only reason I asked if it was discontinued is because it matched the pic this page:

http://www.company7.com/celestron/products/sch2.html

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

17 minutes ago, NallyFace said:

I think I meant SCT. Only reason I asked if it was discontinued is because it matched the pic this page:

http://www.company7.com/celestron/products/sch2.html

They do look similar.  But it's the OTA + mount package that has been discontinued.

[NallyFace]

10 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

They do look similar.  But it's the OTA + mount package that has been discontinued.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. So this would fit a range of mounts, such as a GoTo (forgive me for learning as I go, so much to learn it’s like trying to start a new job but with a years knowledge) then I could also get the WiFi adapted and use the app.