Binocular first light

[jetstream]

A friend gave me an old set of 10x50 binoculars to try out on the sky so last night a quick session was had. I sure am wobbly with them! Much better in the lawnchair or laying on the ground for stability.

These shakes made my target confirmation sketchy... I tried M81/M82/ NGC 2403 and M51. I'll give about 70% confidence on NGC 2403 and maybe 60% on M81/M82. I just might have seen a very small faint glow ball where M51 should be... who knows lol!

A couple of thoughts:

some say M81/M82 are just visible naked eye- in my opinion this is an extremely optimistic thought and after using the binos it just re affirms this- I've been trying for 7 years to see them naked eye with no luck and under reasonable skies.

second, no matter how good small binocular views can get I don't think they will ever come close to the ultra portable H130 which I can set up in under a minute. This might come down to stability?

I'd like to hear from binocular observers regarding expectations, before I buy some IS Canons...

[Ships and Stars]

I love my binoculars, I've 12x50 Bushnells (an old gift from my sister), 12x70 Cometrons (1.4kg best eye relief for eyeglasses/full FOV, light but still have tripod mount), 15x70 Helios (c.2.6kg I think, very heavy but well built!) with filter attachments which are great for large nebulae, and they also do well with star clusters under dark skies, and finally the 20/40x100mm Quantum 5.1s which I've only used for ship spotting so far, but appear promising. I'm in the process of making a fork mount for these, 7.2kg! Part of the logic for the Quantums was to use any 1.25" EP but these are the old version and only take the supplied 20x and 40x EPs, but for the price I couldn't pass them up. They should be excellent for large nebulae and galaxies with OIII/UHC/Hb filters when I finally get the mount sorted. 

Part of the allure with binoculars is being able to scan the sky quickly with both eyes - ideally without a tripod. Once you get into tripod territory, this advantage begins to diminish as you mention, as small scopes like the H130 can offer a lot more mag for less money and have a 'tripod' built in.

I finish every observing session off with the 15x70s, kind of a ritual, but I don't use a tripod - I'll rest my elbows or the bins themselves on the roof of my car or wall, etc or just hold them.

The drawbacks are a fixed magnification which in my experience is of course very low compared to what I'm used to with my dobs, but the upside is they are great for a quick scan when the weather is too unpredictable to set up a scope and can be used for terrestrial wildlife, birds, (wolves!) etc. Another upside is glorious binocular vision and the ability to freely roam around very large patches of the night sky in relative freedom unless you are looking at big obsy binoculars, but with the right mount, these can offer good mobility as well.

All just depends on taste I suppose. The Canon IS should be pretty good from what I've read without a tripod of any sort, but for astro use, filter threads are a must-have for me.

I came across the Starchair 3000/Fujinon 40x150 ED binocular combination below if money is no object 👍 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Ships and Stars

[Littleguy80]

Nice report, Gerry. I have a pair of 10x50s for a couple of years now. Stability is an issue for me too. I can pick up M81/M82 in them from home. Lying down does help but arms get tired pretty quickly. Since having the 80mm refractor they’ve had a lot less use. The 80mm refractor and a 40mm eyepiece is more fun in my opinion. All that being said, they do still get used even if they’re not first choice. I’ve quite enjoyed trying to spot brighter comets with them. 

[jetstream]

3 minutes ago, Ships and Stars said:

Part of the allure with binoculars is being able to scan the sky quickly with both eyes

Thanks S&S- I too want binoculars for portability and also for quick sessions under changing skies like last night. The sky clear for just a little while so I went out before bed for a bit. I had Pentax 8x42 for many years until a drop on the rocks finished them off. There were superbly sharp and with a great depth of focus, the glass in these were right up there. BUT lol! they too left me lacking on the sky and suffered CA to some extent on Jupiter etc.

I have no desire for tripods and even the monopod mount might be enough of a hassle to make me pass on it.

Quandary- I need some new binos- preferably IS, for the boat, trekking and birdwatching (& animals) but I don't need the super expensive 10x42 Canon IS for this, a smaller pair would meet 90% of my needs. I did want IS for the sky but if the views aren't what I want...

Another thing- good binos like Swaro,Zeiss, Leica, Pentax etc will last a lifetime if cared for whereas I'm not so sure about the Canon IS...

Can you easily see galaxies in your binos when propped against the hood or a tree or something? I wonder if the Angelfish (SH2-264) and Barnards Loop are do able with filters?

[Ships and Stars]

2 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Thanks S&S- I too want binoculars for portability and also for quick sessions under changing skies like last night. The sky clear for just a little while so I went out before bed for a bit. I had Pentax 8x42 for many years until a drop on the rocks finished them off. There were superbly sharp and with a great depth of focus, the glass in these were right up there. BUT lol! they too left me lacking on the sky and suffered CA to some extent on Jupiter etc.

I have no desire for tripods and even the monopod mount might be enough of a hassle to make me pass on it.

Quandary- I need some new binos- preferably IS, for the boat, trekking and birdwatching (& animals) but I don't need the super expensive 10x42 Canon IS for this, a smaller pair would meet 90% of my needs. I did want IS for the sky but if the views aren't what I want...

Another thing- good binos like Swaro,Zeiss, Leica, Pentax etc will last a lifetime if cared for whereas I'm not so sure about the Canon IS...

Can you easily see galaxies in your binos when propped against the hood or a tree or something? I wonder if the Angelfish (SH2-264) and Barnards Loop are do able with filters?

Since it is generally late in the evening and only earlier this year that I really started using the binoculars after observing sessions, Andromeda was behind the house but I've seen it a few times under LP and it was pretty decent but the LP dampened things down quite a bit.

I'm hoping my 40x EPs in the big 100mm binoculars will let me take in the brighter galaxies with relative ease - another aspect you mention are the larger nebulae like SH2-264 and especially Barnard's Loop which I'm hoping the 20/40x100s will reveal with filters, but afraid I haven't logged the time in with them yet under dark skies! I do recall California Nebula was really nice with the 15x70s and OIII/UHC filter combo under 21.6+ skies, so the 100mm binoculars should work well.

I am trying to find out how much of the larger nebulae I can see with the 100mm with filters, but it will likely be September again before I get a decent crack at it!

There are a lot of very knowledgeable binocular enthusiasts here, especially author Steve Tomkin, who runs the excellent  BinocularSky website and newsletter and owners who can tell you about IS binoculars and the probability of observing galaxies and nebulae with them. I did have some interesting views with the 15x70s/filters and definitely want to explore this more next observing season, especially from dark skies where the rewards are greater.

[Ships and Stars]

PS I don't think you can go wrong with Pentax binoculars from what I've read, I came really close to buying the 20x60 Pentax before the Helios 15x70s popped up for a good price. 

[jetstream]

9 minutes ago, Ships and Stars said:

PS I don't think you can go wrong with Pentax binoculars from what I've read, I came really close to buying the 20x60 Pentax before the Helios 15x70s popped up for a good price. 

I bought my Pentax after looking through a hunting buddies, I no longer hunt but that glass was so good... At the time the Pentax (about 20 yrs ago) were around $700.00. The Swaro, Leica were about $2000.00.

So I was in the store in Winnipeg looking through them all. It went like this- $700...$2000, $700...$2000 etc. The more expensive binos were superb- but the Pentax also pleased my eye...

For me good glass causes a reaction every time I look through it and those Pentax did for 19 yrs or so. The suffered many crashes until the last one finished them off.

I would bet money the Canon IS wouldn't survive even one of the minor crashes, but I could be wrong. I don't know Steve but his advice would be appreciated.

The nebula... for me stability is absolutely crucial to see faint objects regardless of the optic. Even 10x50 filtered should show the mentioned nebs but we better be steady with the binos...IMHO.

[Ships and Stars]

Yes the Swaro and Leica stuff (and Fujinon) is just flat out expensive but very nice I'm sure.

I'd go for binoculars with a tripod bracket if you don't go the IS route - most decent binoculars should have them and a standard tripod should give decent stability for the smaller bins. Finding binoculars with filter threads is a little trickier - the Helios Apollo line have them, along with some offerings from Astroshop.eu, I think some of the Omegons have threaded filter receptacles or even flip in filter holders (Omegon Brightsky).

Off topic a bit here, but I even used JB weld to attach filter threads to my Quantum eyepieces by cutting down some planetary filters. It came out ok actually.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Ships and Stars

[jetstream]

5 minutes ago, Ships and Stars said:

Helios Apollo

Excellent innovation!

How good are the Helios Apollos?

[Ships and Stars]

20 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Excellent innovation!

How good are the Helios Apollos?

The JB Weld was my cheap and cheerful solution once I discovered regular 1.25" EPs wouldn't fit...

The Helios Apollo 15x70s are built like a tank and optically very good once you get them set up, with a few caveats. Each eyepiece focuses individually, so I'd lean against them if using them for terrestrial as they are quite heavy (2.6kg I think) and trying to hold them with one hand while rotating individual EP to get sharp focus with the other hand is, well, a workout. I much prefer a central focus wheel. You would definitely want these on a tripod or at least a monopod, especially if 10x50s were shaky. Being inclined as I am towards aperture fever, I'd probably go for the 22x85mm Helios instead as both really want a tripod anyway. THere is also the Helios Lightquest line which is newer and apparently even better optically, but no filter threads.

Still, I'm happy with the 15x70s, but might see if anyone out there wants to swap+money for some 22x85s since there isn't much between them and my 12x70 Celestrons. 

My answer was probably clear as mud, haha! The Helios are excellent binoculars and well regarded across the board I think.

Photo of the Helios/Celestron Cometrons side by side....

PS the Cometrons are not well regarded, but I think they are excellent and by far the most comfortable/widest FOV binoculars I've used with glasses. Plus they were £27!

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Ships and Stars

[scarp15]

They enable me to access places such as in the picture below with the potential for sweeping through Cygnus and the Milky Way. At home they are motivational for a quick scan of open clusters, the moon, asterisms etc, relaxing to use sat on a bench and stabilised with a simple to use monopod. They provide a different perspective on observing, for example the Wild Duck Cluster is great set within a wide expansive chunk of sky. Good eye relief and two eyes becomes immersive as you sweep casually along picking out and identifying various deep sky objects, rhythmically hopping from one to the next, then back again. In between clouds, lunar observing and even planetary / with affiliated moons observing can be satisfying. Astronomy binoculars are simply handy to have around for impromptu or planned times and as Robert has mentioned, should there also be an opportunity for sudden nature watching, you wont miss out. Hope I've sold it to you.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by scarp15

[jetstream]

31 minutes ago, scarp15 said:

Hope I've sold it to you.

Yup!

Now do I get a set of dedicated astro binos + smaller IS Canons or astro binos + replace my revered Pentax or get the 10x42 Canon IS?

Thoughts Iain?

[mapstar]

Hi Gerry

Just read your  query on someones account of m81 and 82 being naked eye? Think someones having a laugh with that one or be looking through 10 year old eyes (even doubt that).

I've seen them in a 9x50 quite a few times although even in the darkest skies never naked eye. The needle and whale easy spots in the finder but again I doubt anyone would see them naked eye. 

 

[Mark at Beaufort]

Hello Gerry hope you are keeping safe and well. I really enjoy binocular astronomy and a few years ago I bought some Helios Apollo 15x70 mainly because I wanted to screw filters into the eye cups. I don't use a tripod or monopod but simply use a garden reclining chair which goes almost horizontal.

These binos are brilliant and I can easily pick up DSOs like M1, M33 and M101. With UHC or O-III filters I have had good views of Rosette, Helix and Monkey Head Nebs to give an idea.

Okay they are heavy but the views are very good. I agree with you that having the Heritage 130P is an added advantage but I think they compliment each other depending on your mood or time available. Never had the Canon IS and I imagine they are very good.

[jetstream]

3 hours ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

These binos are brilliant and I can easily pick up DSOs like M1, M33 and M101. With UHC or O-III filters I have had good views of Rosette, Helix and Monkey Head Nebs to give an idea.

Hi Mark, we are well and thank you. I hope everything is going good for you and yours too.

I can tell one thing here, my inexperience is showing up in the results with the binoculars. If I can make them work they will be perfect for ultra quick views when those unexpected clear sky moments open up.The plan is to practise stability more than anything right now with the 10x50's. Over the past few years I've heard the Helios Apollos were VG and I wanted some confirmation on this.

Practise, practise-I'll see how stable I can get and then make the decision.

Stay safe Mark, Gerry