Astro Stuff Price Increases Next Year ??

[GazOC]

I don't think anyone is claiming that having a British accent is reason to buy a scope from someone? People are just pointing out that the pound is weak to the dollar, warranty/ returns can be pain in the backside etc.

[schuey100]

I'm about to buy my first scope, probably a Celestron CPC 800. I'll probably be speaking with Steve at FLO but unless he can offer some kind of deal I'll be buying it from a US supplier. The cost difference, after duty etc would buy a number of nice eyepieces, a torch, external power supply, a few books, binoculars and a full tank of petrol. The base price is about $1500 now. I think it's £1500 at FLO.

I feel a bit sorry for UK retailers that have to buy at inflated prices but for me it's about getting value for money, and if I can get my iPod or bike or stereo etc at a 30% reduction by buying via the US then I will do.

You will find that no reputable US dealer will sell you a Celestron or Meade scope to ship to the UK as both companies restrict their dealers from doing so.

I never said anything about shipping No, there are ways of getting it shipped or even picking it up, the main issue for me is warranty but as far as I have seen the warranty carries.

The point I was making is that if I can save on gear from the US then I will. Ultimately I would prefer to buy from a UK based distributor, I did some price matching and quoting today and I'm getting to a level which I'm happy at. I now just have to make sure that the Celestron 800 is the right scope for me I'm still toying with another but that's another topic

[Whippy]

I never said anything about shipping No, there are ways of getting it shipped or even picking it up, the main issue for me is warranty but as far as I have seen the warranty carries.

If you mean the warranty carries in that you can buy the scope in the states, get it shipped by whatever means and if it goes wrong, you can take it to David Hinds (Celestron's UK importer) for repair then I'm pretty sure that's a non-starter because I'm sure he wouldn't take it under warranty. Of course you'll be able to send it back to the states, presumably to the person who actually bought it for you but the courier costs would eat into whatever money you have made and if it's the mount or OTA then you'll lose money because the shipping costs would be horiffic.

Tony..

[GazOC]

I'd check on that warranty issue, I'm not sure it carries. I think you'd have to ship the scope back to where you bought it (or find a friendly UK dealer).

[blackgerby]

I've bought a fair amount of stuff from the States because it was cheaper, but with something like a telescope I'd want somebody local whose door I can bang on. The US warranty may hold, but it would need to be sent back to the States for fixing as a UK dealer would probably not touch it. Not something to be taken lightly.

I spent a lot of time looking into it for something for my car which was only available in the States. In the end I did without.

I don't think most of the retailers are the bad guys, it's the original manufacturers who set the prices and policies.

[GazOC]

I agree, eyepieces, cameras etc (maybe even a small refactor) are one thing but I'd rather buy a large scope like that from the UK.

[astro84]

Hello,

If you mean the warranty carries in that you can buy the scope in the states, get it shipped by whatever means and if it goes wrong, you can take it to David Hinds (Celestron's UK importer) for repair then I'm pretty sure that's a non-starter because I'm sure he wouldn't take it under warranty.

Actually - I'd suggest that the OP contact D Hinds in writing to satisfy themselves of where they stand. My own checks with BOTH Celestron and D Hinds on support for US-shop sourced Celestron equipment still under warranty says different.

Indeed it may well be of some use for folks to actually check with the UK Celestron distributor to actually find out what EXACTLY is done by them when anything is "returned for repair". For instance, what exactly happens for: -

a] Cracked / scratched mirrors

b] Dented OTA tubes

c] Broken (hardware / software / electronics) mounts

Of course you'll be able to send it back to the states, presumably to the person who actually bought it for you but the courier costs would eat into whatever money you have made and if it's the mount or OTA then you'll lose money because the shipping costs would be horiffic.

Seriously.., unless you're talking from experience in shipping astro gear to the US, I'd again suggest to the OP to look into options for themselves. Having sold / shipped kit to US buyers myself, I can tell you its really not that daunting.

Regards,

astro84

[Whippy]

By all means check but TBH, I'd be amazed if David Hinds undertook repairs under warranty (ie: costing the cutomer nothing) for kit that wasn't bought in this country.

Seriously.., unless you're talking from experience in shipping astro gear to the US, I'd again suggest to the OP to look into options for themselves. Having sold / shipped kit to US buyers myself, I can tell you its really not that daunting.

Having negotiated and managed courier contracts both international and domestic for firms I have worked for, I can assure you sending large, heavy, fragile items such as OTA's and mounts internationally can cost a fair bit of money. Not only in actual shpping costs but also extra for higher insurance rates.

Tony..

[astro84]

Hi,

I agree, eyepieces, cameras etc (maybe even a small refactor) are one thing but I'd rather buy a large scope like that from the UK.

Seriously?

Back in July '08 I was itching to get a C-14 SCT - how shall I put it..,

Avg US Shop retail price = $4100.00

Actual US Shop Demo model price = $3700.00

UK Retail = £5200.00

US$ / UK£ Cash Currency FOREX rate for Monday, August 4, 2008 = 1 British Pound : 1.897 US Dollars

There's absolutely_no_way I could have justified considered buying UK retail.

Regards,

astro84

[Ant]

Trouble is while the potential savings are great, what happens when it goes wrong and no one wants to touch it.

SO you can save a potential few grand. But if it went wrong you could be down $4100 - with a broken scope.

I'm with Gaz on this one. EP's, books (small stuff) no worries from abroad. Scopes, especially something like a scope, UK all the way.

Ant

[GazOC]

In that situation I think I'd rather buy secondhand than from the USA. Most of my scopes are secondhand, the last new one I bought was a 180mm Mak/Cass and it arrived with a 2" round hole missing out of the glass in the primary. I dread to think the trouble I could have had with that if I'd have bought it from the USA, as it was I phoned the UK dealer I bought it off (FLO) and a new one arrived 2 days later.

[Whippy]

US$ / UK£ Cash Currency FOREX rate for Monday, August 4, 2008 = 1 British Pound : 1.897 US Dollars

And today's rate for USD/Sterling is 1.445.

Tony..

[astro84]

Hi,

In that situation I think I'd rather buy secondhand than from the USA. Most of my scopes are secondhand, the last new one I bought was a 180mm Mak/Cass and it arrived with a 2" round hole missing out of the glass in the primary. I dread to think the trouble I could have had with that if I'd have bought it from the USA, as it was I phoned the UK dealer I bought it off (FLO) and a new one arrived 2 days later.

Indeed.

Of course, central to my post here is that I wasn't even talking about second-hand in my case. This is an ex-demo OTA from a US Celestron reseller.

You do indeed take your chances going traditional second-hand (classifieds, and such) hence my suggesting to the OP that they check available options and satisfy themselves.

Regards,

astro84

[astro84]

Hello,

US$ / UK£ Cash Currency FOREX rate for Monday, August 4, 2008 = 1 British Pound : 1.897 US Dollars

And today's rate for USD/Sterling is 1.445.

Tony..

Indeed!

For me..., back then, the math was simple - and I've been so pleased ever since.

Would I do it now? Why bother, I've already got it!

Regards,

astro84

[ChrisEdu]

With a warranty, surely it might well depend on whether the item comes with an international warranty or not. If you bought something from Nikon, for example, and it had an international warranty you could just send it back to Nikon UK for repair.

I've imported sports equipment and fine pens from the US before and warranties have never been an issue when a repair has been required.

[GazOC]

Both Celestron and Meade operate a "territories" policy. I'm pretty sure that dealers can't sell outside their territories and warranties arn't valid outside the territory the scope was bought in.

[GazOC]

From Celestron USA (their bolding):

"NOTE: This warranty is valid to U.S.A. and Canadian customers who have purchased this product from an authorized Celestron dealer in the U.S.A. or Canada. Warranty outside the U.S.A. and Canada is valid only to customers who purchased from a Celestron's International Distributor or Authorized Celestron Dealer in the specific country. Please contact them for any warranty service."

[ianmwatson]

I suppose it depends on what you buy. I bought a 13mm ethos from telescope house for £342, granted it was when they had their 10% off everything in november I think it was (what a great offer by the way). This eyepiece is $620 in the states, or £413 with a 1.5/1 exchange rate. I think I did quite well and here's to UK astro retailers.

I must admit I don't often use their services as I try to recycle other peoples old gear.

[Brinders]

I'm about to buy my first scope, probably a Celestron CPC 800. I'll probably be speaking with Steve at FLO but unless he can offer some kind of deal I'll be buying it from a US supplier. The cost difference, after duty etc would buy a number of nice eyepieces, a torch, external power supply, a few books, binoculars and a full tank of petrol. The base price is about $1500 now. I think it's £1500 at FLO.

I feel a bit sorry for UK retailers that have to buy at inflated prices but for me it's about getting value for money, and if I can get my iPod or bike or stereo etc at a 30% reduction by buying via the US then I will do.

When I boughy my Clelstron C9.25 OTA a year ago, I enquired of a number of US retailers about purchasing the scope from them (I was after the CPC800 or the Meade LX90). The response from all I contacted was that they could sell me eyepieces and accessories, but were prevented from selling the scopes for export to the UK by the manufacturers. I thought a little harder and longer and took some advice from other forum members and went for the C9.25 OTA from FLO instead and the Skywatcher EQ6 Pro from Pulsar Optical.

I think you need to bear in mind that the US price will not include import duty, and shipment costs may be higher too. Finally, if something goes wrong it will be very expensive returning the goods to the US.

Just some thoughts,

Brinders

[John]

I've just noticed a new batch of stuff from Telescope Services, the German-based supplier, has gone onto e.bay - the prices seem to be around 15% higher than the last lot as far as I can tell - postage is up by the same amount as well.

John

[blackgerby]

Been doing a bit of research, but I'm not quite sure what it means.

Telescopes have a Taric code of 9005, which carries a "third country duty" of 4.2%

also

"If you buy goods online from a country outside the European Union, for instance the USA, Canada, China, Australia

You will be charged:

Customs duty if the amount of duty is €10 (£7) or over

Import VAT if the value of the goods is €22 (£18) and over

Excise duty for some goods like alcohol and tobacco"

Duty is to be paid on the cost of the telescope + delivery costs to the EU border.

There will be a courier fee to pay if it's sent by a carrier (which I guess it will have to be)

So it could be

(((Telescope cost + delivery cost) + 15% VAT + Customs duty@? + Third country duty@4.2%) + courier fee)

Something to check out before buying, it could turn out to be a big chunk of money.

Anybody understand this stuff?

[blackgerby]

A bit more reading and I think the customs duty and the "third country duty" are just different ways of saying the same thing. So I think the equation is

(((Telescope cost + delivery cost) + 15% VAT + Customs duty@4.2%) + courier fee)

Anyway, if anybody is think of doing it, the government has sent up a phone line for questions

How much Customs Duty and VAT do you pay?

The actual amount of Customs Duty and VAT payable varies according to where you are coming from and the items you wish to bring in.

To get an idea of how much you may need to pay you can contact HM Revenue & Customs' National Advice Service on 0845 010 9000 or +44 (0) 29 2050 1261 if you're calling from abroad.

Lines are open from 8.00 am to 8.00 pm Monday to Friday. But bear in mind that the actual amount you will need to pay can only be determined when you present the goods at customs.

[ianmwatson]

You also get charged this lot on used gear from non EU places, as I found out to my dismay last year.

In a seperate purchase from Siebert Optics the charges were so high that they exceeded the value of the starsplitter eyepiece I was buying, I contacted the vendor and he agreed to let me return to sender and refund my money minus the p&p.

[Capricorn]

I am not sure that it is as complex as the equations above.

The courier cost is the carrier, assuming that you use someone like FedEx/DHL. They deliver to your door.

I have purchased several painting from Canada and I have been charged Duty, they have always specified that it is NOT VAT!!. Couple of these were paid at the Customs office around Heathrow, so I assume they have a good idea of what they are doing.

I think the we mix up Duty and VAT when we think of importing. VAT is added when a retailer sells an item to you or a tradesman performs a service. When importing you are not a retailer or tradesman. So you are adding no "value" to the product, you already own it. What you are doing is importing something that you own.

You will however have to pay Duty, magically this is normally equal to the VAT rate. So the confusion.

My experience is that you get add the cost of the item to the cost of the carriage, then add the relevant duty to this. (Normally =VAT rate but not always.)

Customs and Excise have various scales of Duty for just about everything. The paintings I have purchased are at a Duty rate of 5% not 17.5/15.

If I had purchased from a gallery then they would have had to charge at the 17.5/15 rate.(Retailer charges VAT)

Has anyone looked to see if a telescope could be classed as a scientific instrument? If so is the Duty rate still the 17.5/15 scale or is it less?

Just wondering if they could magically fall into the 0% rate, but doubtful. Then you would have to convince the customs person that it really was able to be classed as a scientific instrument.

As a final bit of information I have always had a good service from any of the people I have spoken to at the various customs offices. They are not ogres, usually quite helpful.

[blackgerby]

The courier cost is the carrier, assuming that you use someone like FedEx/DHL. They deliver to your door.

This is true, but if duty has to be paid, they'll charge a handling fee, got caught by this one

Has anyone looked to see if a telescope could be classed as a scientific instrument? If so is the Duty rate still the 17.5/15 scale or is it less?

I believe this is the Taric code - see http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds/cgi-bin/tarchap?Taric=90000000&Download=0&Periodic=0&ProdLine=80&Lang=EN&SimDate=20070805&Country=CN/0720&YesNo=1&Indent=-1&Action=1

As a final bit of information I have always had a good service from any of the people I have spoken to at the various customs offices. They are not ogres, usually quite helpful.

I'm sure you're right. The eyes raised icon above was for the complexity of the system not the folks who have to administer it.

So from what you're saying, the true equation is more like

(((Telescope cost + delivery cost) + Customs duty@4.2%) + courier handling fee)

Heck, it's complicated. I'll stick to FLO