Polar align heq5

[eikie]

After getting excellent advice a few weeks ago, I purchased a skywatcher 80ed plus and heq5 mount.

And of course the sky has been cloudy ever since, with 1 small hazy window in which I tried my new toys (and ran into the first issues)

Having read the (outdated?) manual, countless websites/forums and watched hours of video, I am still stuck on polar alignment. So I'd could use some pointers.

 

First of all, the polar scope is so really really bright red when the mount is powered up, I can't see Polaris, unless I power down. The manual says nothing about dimming the red light. Is that normal, how am I supposed to properly align if I can't see Polaris through it?

Secondly, every website and video mentions the finding where Polaris should be (with an app) and adjusting the mount so the bubble/circle in the polar finder is on that position and Polaris is in it. (As an alternative to the procedure in the manual by twisting dials to transit dates etc)

My mount does not have a circle, it has numbers (12/3/6/9). I am assuming Polaris should still be at the (app mentioned) position, but what about the numbers? 12 on top?

 

Bonus question, assuming I can manually find m31 to photograph without guiding, would I take a few 30 (or whatever is the max in that situation) seconds photos, slew the m31 back in frame and go for the next few shots?

Is that how you photograph without guiding? And does that need an accurate polar align?

 

All questions which have been asked before, but I really can't seem to find the answers. So of anybody could point in the right direction, I'd appreciate it...

 

[spillage]

Hi Eikie

I am sure there should be an option in the handset the adjust the brightness of the polar scope. I would first of all make sure you polar scope is properly aligned during the day. There are a few youtube videos showing you how to do this and then if you have an android phone install synscan init and this will show you where the polar star should be positioned. Hope this helps.

M31 is a very large target and I would suggest M42 if that is possible as a first target or just any area of the sky to start with. I would take a few shoots at different exposure times and see how far you can push it before star trailing starts to happen and then just run as many as possible shots as you can. Maybe 15,30,45,60,120,180 seconds.

Polar alignment is really important especially as you are not guiding.

Edited November 26, 2019 by spillage

[joe aguiar]

I have used polar scopes that are not even illumanted so u could just take out the barriers and u should still see the black lines and polaris

I agree with above u got to try different exposures first  try few at 20 sec few at 30sec etc, if your not polar aligned good I would say after 30 you will see star trails. or at the least bloated stars. so you can take more pics less exposure that will work too.

joejaguar

[eikie]

1 hour ago, spillage said:

Hi Eikie

I am sure there should be an option in the handset the adjust the brightness of the polar scope. I would first of all make sure you polar scope is properly aligned during the day. There are a few youtube videos showing you how to do this and then if you have an android phone install synscan init and this will show you where the polar star should be positioned. Hope this helps.

M31 is a very large target and I would suggest M42 if that is possible as a first target or just any area of the sky to start with. I would take a few shoots at different exposure times and see how far you can push it before star trailing starts to happen and then just run as many as possible shots as you can. Maybe 15,30,45,60,120,180 seconds.

Polar alignment is really important especially as you are not guiding.

The manual doesn't mentions dimming, but I will dig through the handset to see if there is a setting I can adjust.

The polar scope is aligned, at least I did my best during the Day.

 

How is polar alignment important if I am not guiding? Nothing, except the sky, is moving, how does polar alignment play a roll? Is it to get the object in frame again by just using the RA direction?

24 minutes ago, joe aguiar said:

I have used polar scopes that are not even illumanted so u could just take out the barriers and u should still see the black lines and polaris

I agree with above u got to try different exposures first  try few at 20 sec few at 30sec etc, if your not polar aligned good I would say after 30 you will see star trails. or at the least bloated stars. so you can take more pics less exposure that will work too.

joejaguar

First I will try to dim the lights before I start taking stuff out.

 

And same question to you, how does polar alignment play a roll in star trails if I am not guiding? With or without it, the stars will be moving anyway with the mount not moving. Or do I manually keep slewing (with the handset) the mount in  the RA axis when taking photos? (In that case I do see the importance of PA).

 

 

Still utterly confused

[spillage]

If you are using the handset then you would do a two or three star alignment after you polar align. You can then pick your target from the list in the handset and it will slew to the target and start tracking automatically.

You are thinking of guiding where you use an additional scope and camera or oag. This uses software to be more precise. Tracking will move the mount to keep up with the rotation. If your polar alignment is out then the tracking will be off and cause trails. Have you have seen an explanation involving the earth with a large pole going through it N to S.

[Jiggy 67]

Try the utilities menu for dimming the polar scope.

Polar alignment is very important especially for photography. You are using a powered mount that follows the target in RA around the north celestial pole. You might not see it but it is and to do this the mount needs to be aligned with the ncp which is near polaris 

[joe aguiar]

Ok so let's say u have a manual mount I know u dont but let's go back to basics.

If you polar align just to Polaris right in the center of the polar scope thats about 5 degrees off but that's good enough for visual.  With tracking off or no tracking, you will the sky is only moving on one axis.

Let's say u are viewing juipter at 200x power. It will leave the fov in about 20 sec but this also depends what ep fov u have too. With a manual slow motion controls u can move it back to the object. Ok now if u turned on tracking Jupiter would be in the view for along time let's say 20 to 30 min. 

BUT you will then notice it's also moving upwards in the other direction opposite from when u had the tracking off and that cause the polar alignment is off 5 degrees from true north. 

If u fixed the alignment for Polaris to be 100 or 99% you wouldn't see that 2nd movement. 

However your latitude  has to also be 100% and the dial on the mount is not big or accurate enough to be 100% so it wont be. Also all mount drives are also not 100% on tracking either. But get all these very close and u ALMOST never have to track.

Did that help or not?

There r videos that show u a projected view so u understand. 

Joejaguar 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by joe aguiar

[Jiggy 67]

This video will explain polar alignment. Hope it helps
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PcctN4xVXnI&feature=youtu.be

 

[eikie]

47 minutes ago, spillage said:

If you are using the handset then you would do a two or three star alignment after you polar align. You can then pick your target from the list in the handset and it will slew to the target and start tracking automatically.

You are thinking of guiding where you use an additional scope and camera or oag. This uses software to be more precise. Tracking will move the mount to keep up with the rotation. If your polar alignment is out then the tracking will be off and cause trails. Have you have seen an explanation involving the earth with a large pole going through it N to S.

I totally missed the notion my mount keeps tracking the selected target, with that in mind, it totally makes sense to properly PA.

44 minutes ago, Jiggy 67 said:

Try the utilities menu for dimming the polar scope.

Polar alignment is very important especially for photography. You are using a powered mount that follows the target in RA around the north celestial pole. You might not see it but it is and to do this the mount needs to be aligned with the ncp which is near polaris 

For some reason I didn't get the idea of my mount actively tracking that patch of sky. I thought it just slew to the target and that is it.

I will try the utilities menu, the manual says nothing, but that seems outdated anyway.

 

20 minutes ago, joe aguiar said:

Ok so let's say u have a manual mount I know u dont but let's go back to basics.

If you polar align just to Polaris right in the center of the polar scope thats about 5 degrees off but that's good enough for visual.  With tracking off or no tracking, you will the sky is only moving on one axis.

Let's say u are viewing juipter at 200x power. It will leave the fov in about 20 sec but this also de8what ep fov u have too. With a manual slow motion controls u can move it back to the object. Ok now if u turned on tracking Jupiter would be in the view for along time let's say 20 to 30 min. 

BUT you will then notice it's also moving upwards in the other direction opposite from when u had the tracking off and that cause the polar alignment is off 5 degrees from true north. 

If u fixed the alignment for Polaris to be 100 or 99% you wouldn't see that 2nd movement. 

However your latitude  has to also be 100% and the dial on the mount is not big or accurate enough to be 100% so it wont be. Also all mount drives are also not 100% on tracking either. But get all these very close and u ALMOST very have to track.

Did that help or not?

There r videos that show u a projected view so u understand. 

Joejaguar 

 

The way you describe it, I understand it. In that case, it is more a convenience thing to only have to adjust in one axis.

But like others have said, I mixed up guiding (with a cam/software) with tracking (which my mount seems to do, but I didn't realise that).

In with that in mind, PA makes a lot more sense.

 

Thanks all for the clarification and helping a newbie making sense of it all...

 

Last question, with the new reticule, do I just position Polaris on the correct spot of the "clock" (with the synchscan init app) regardless what numbers is on the bottom of the reticule or does the 6 have to be on the bottom?

Edited November 26, 2019 by eikie

[Jiggy 67]

There are a number of different ways depending on your polar scope reticle. Yours sounds like the clock type like mine. One way is to use the handset. After you’ve put your date, time and location in, it will tell you where Polaris is in the form of a time, just put Polaris on that time on the clock in the polar scope (using the alltitude and azimuth knobs only, your moving the mount, not the scope). I use an app called polar alignment pro. This app has a number of different reticle. Just pick yours and follow the instructions. In time, accurate pa will take no more than 90 seconds

Good luck and enjoy the journey 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Jiggy 67

[wookie1965]

From what I have read if the handset has up to date firmware there should be a option in utilities to dim the led in the polar scope.

[Erling G-P]

1 hour ago, wookie1965 said:

From what I have read if the handset has up to date firmware there should be a option in utilities to dim the led in the polar scope.

There is

And to Eikie: yes, 6 has to be at the bottom & 12 at the top, like a clock dial, as accurately as you can make it.  Like others, I can recommend the app SynscanInit2. It provides you with a graphical representation of what you should see in the polar scope - has made my PA more accurate, than when I had to figure out myself where on the clock dial I should put Polaris, based on the time given by the hand control.

In addition to dimming the light in the polar scope, remember also to extract the counter weight bar & turn the Dec. axis 90º - otherwise the view will be blocked (But you probably know this, if you've zeroed the scope in daylight)

Best of luck,

Erling

[cletrac1922]

Where I am, Southern Hemisphere, do not have a Polaris star to polar align

When setting up mount, face north leg south, then use a compass to align the mount, allowing for 10 Deg E magnetic variation South Celestial Pole

Done that, then do a two star alignment 

The mount will track any object you select

A lot of people get very confused with polar alignment, keep going in circles 

Have also recently got the WiFi adapter, and use the SynScan App

What found with the SynScan App, when come to pick second star, the APP wants to give a list of what it thinks, not where you want to use

Still have issue also with SynScan APP, when trying to save first star used for alignment

Instruction indicate up and right to save, never got it to work

Maybe another issue in a different forum

John

[eikie]

Thanks all for the clarification, I am sure the next time I can set up, I at least know what I should be doing.