Really angry now

[symmetal]

Good news Alan,

I did a test with a sliced open USB2 cable and can confirm that with the 12V supply connected there is no significant USB power used on the ASI071, less than 5mA, so that shouldn't be causing any power issues. That's satisfied my suspicions as to whether the manual was correct.  With the 12V removed, the USB power varies between 0.4A and 0.56A,  the higher value when reading/downloading the image. This is outside the USB2 spec so the camera should always be used with the 12V supply if using USB2.

I was using Firecapture for testing and I mentioned previously about setting the gain/offset in the Ascom driver setup dialog along with the USB3 speed. As you're using USB2 this speed didn't matter. However, it's not labelled USB3 speed, just USB speed, and it is relevant to USB2. I had to set it to 60% or less for the camera to work reliably in Firecapture. Above 70% it failed to capture/download images. So it's worth checking this value Alan, and perhaps setting it at its minimum of 40% until you're happy that everything is working well.

Hopefully your frustrating session yesterday was as you think, just due to the wrong camera selected in PHD2. Good luck.

Alan

[alan potts]

3 hours ago, symmetal said:

Good news Alan,

I did a test with a sliced open USB2 cable and can confirm that with the 12V supply connected there is no significant USB power used on the ASI071, less than 5mA, so that shouldn't be causing any power issues. That's satisfied my suspicions as to whether the manual was correct.  With the 12V removed, the USB power varies between 0.4A and 0.56A,  the higher value when reading/downloading the image. This is outside the USB2 spec so the camera should always be used with the 12V supply if using USB2.

I was using Firecapture for testing and I mentioned previously about setting the gain/offset in the Ascom driver setup dialog along with the USB3 speed. As you're using USB2 this speed didn't matter. However, it's not labelled USB3 speed, just USB speed, and it is relevant to USB2. I had to set it to 60% or less for the camera to work reliably in Firecapture. Above 70% it failed to capture/download images. So it's worth checking this value Alan, and perhaps setting it at its minimum of 40% until you're happy that everything is working well.

Hopefully your frustrating session yesterday was as you think, just due to the wrong camera selected in PHD2. Good luck.

Alan

Good of you to test that cable, manuals are often wrong, just like me.

I feel after many chipped in with heads together, the two camera one ID number seems a very good place to start looking. I am also in touch with the APT writer so maybe he can help to.

I was surprised how long cooling took in APT, as in Sharpcap this was fairly quick, APT was about 12-15mins, ridiculous, Sharpcap abot 3mins, this could of course be my settings in APT.

The Gain and offset seems to be a stand setting at 90 and 65, I do not understand anything about this, so have left it alone.

Lets see what today brings, it is bound to be me, odds dictate it can't be another cable surely.

Alan

[alan potts]

8 hours ago, Hughsie said:

Hi Alan,

As Laurin suggested, best check which camera is Asi camera 1 and Asi camera 2. I have been down that frustrating road and an easy way to see which one you are connected to is to check the pixel size for each camera (online specs etc), then click on the brain on PHD2 and select the Camera tab. At the bottom left of the screen you will see the pixel size being used for calibration. If its your imaging camera pixel size, then you need to go back to the connection settings in PHD, click the spanner icon and choose the alternate camera which will be your guiding camera and remember which is which.

Hope this helps,

John

I have just recalled I got a black circle in the PHD2 that I could not work out, this must have been data from the imaging scope, this happened just before I had had enough for the night.

Alan

[alan potts]

7 hours ago, StarDodger said:

Lenovo laptops are all renowned for having poor USB power output, that is your issue, they barely provide enough power per port to power a USB thumb drive, never mind an Astro imaging or guide camera...you have probably picked the worst laptop around for astro use to be honest.....sorry to say...

I have 5 laptops 2 x Dell and 3 Lenovo Thinkpads, the Lenovo have worked fine with various Canon, cameras, PHD 2 and ASI guide camera , C-du-C, and EQdir. Whilst these are a few years old now and were got for me by an IT mate, these are were very expensive machines 6 years back, they are not normal tech market ones costing a few hundred quid . Or are they all rubbish?

Alan

[daz]

Alan

In the ASCOM profile editor, you can rename the Camera 1 and Camera 2 to something more meaningful!

Once you know which is which of course!

 

[alan potts]

10 minutes ago, daz said:

Alan

In the ASCOM profile editor, you can rename the Camera 1 and Camera 2 to something more meaningful!

Once you know which is which of course!

 

I dare say I could Daz but with my level of IT knowledge I may well re-direct air traffic. I am going to look at the issue a bit later, I feel sure this is the problem, caused by me and not a cable this time.

Alan

[daz]

It's very straight forward - Ill do you some screen shots!

 

[alan potts]

Thank you everyone that helped.   It would appear that I have named the guide camera and the imaging camera to do the same job, I have redone this so things are correct and all programs are working together I think, though of course I can't actually guide but took a set of darks for the library, which was when the main camera was doing darks too. It's tracking but I don't know what it's pointing at, a bit later I will try the moon.

I make a deal with you all. I will stand in the corner with the dunce cap on and not buy anything IT related for a while so you can all have a rest, you must be fed up with me. May well buy a WO 73mm scope next month, get ready.

Alan

[StarDodger]

3 hours ago, alan potts said:

I have 5 laptops 2 x Dell and 3 Lenovo Thinkpads, the Lenovo have worked fine with various Canon, cameras, PHD 2 and ASI guide camera , C-du-C, and EQdir. Whilst these are a few years old now and were got for me by an IT mate, these are were very expensive machines 6 years back, they are not normal tech market ones costing a few hundred quid . Or are they all rubbish?

Alan

They are not rubbish, in fact excellent laptops, , but they lack  power on the USB boards, which for office and everyday computing is fine, but for astro they can be troublesome..have you tried a good quality powered USB hub..?  does that make a difference..? 

 

Edit: never mind I see you are sorted now.. nice one,  and clear skies..

Edited August 25, 2019 by StarDodger

[alan potts]

25 minutes ago, StarDodger said:

They are not rubbish, in fact excellent laptops, , but they lack  power on the USB boards, which for office and everyday computing is fine, but for astro they can be troublesome..have you tried a good quality powered USB hub..?  does that make a difference..? 

 

Edit: never mind I see you are sorted now.. nice one,  and clear skies..

I will consult my mate his understanding of all things computer is legendary around here, he solved a problem I had that no one on site even thought of, understandable when it was to do with local power from the socket. He can also get me stuff like a hub cheaper which is always nice. It may well help tidy things up too, he has mention one before..

Alan

[carastro]

I feel for you Alan, I am not the sharpest tool in the box when it comes to IT, technical and electrical stuff, which is one reason why I tend not to add to complexities. 

I have found that Hubs (tried several including the much recommended Startech one) as I don't have enough USB ports - Hubs work when they feel like it, so unless I can overcome that I can't even use EQMOd as I have 3 USB ports, one for the imaging camera, one for the filterwheel and one for the guide camera.   When a hub actually decides it wants to work then I can use EQMod.  

I use a dual rig and have to use 2 laptops to provide enough USBs.  I did try once with a hub to see if I could actually operate two imaging cameras from the same laptop (which the software is capable of doing).  All that happened was the captured images got stuck on download and never actually downloaded, and therefore could not take a 2nd sub on either camera.

So it's back to two laptops if imaging with two cameras.

I have another hub some-one gave me, so may give it a further try.

Sounds like you may have sorted your problems though, good luck for tonight.  SGL members are so helpful.  

Carole 

Edited August 25, 2019 by carastro

[symmetal]

8 hours ago, alan potts said:

I was surprised how long cooling took in APT, as in Sharpcap this was fairly quick, APT was about 12-15mins, ridiculous, Sharpcap abot 3mins, this could of course be my settings in APT.

You can set the APT cooldown/warmup times in the 'Cooling Aid' and 'Warming Aid' boxes. The default is quite slow as you found. This is intended to prevent thermal stress to the sensor. 12-15 minutes is rather over cautious. 

8 hours ago, alan potts said:

The Gain and offset seems to be a stand setting at 90 and 65, I do not understand anything about this, so have left it alone.

It was the USB speed setting slider on the same panel I was concerned with in case you had accidently set it too high. For the moment, just check it's at 40% (fully to the left) when it appears when you first connect the camera.

7 hours ago, alan potts said:

make a deal with you all. I will stand in the corner with the dunce cap on and not buy anything IT related for a while so you can all have a rest, you must be fed up with me. May well buy a WO 73mm scope next month, get ready.

We'll let you play with a new scope. Can't see you getting into trouble with that. 

Alan

[alan potts]

3 minutes ago, symmetal said:

You can set the APT cooldown/warmup times in the 'Cooling Aid' and 'Warming Aid' boxes. The default is quite slow as you found. This is intended to prevent thermal stress to the sensor. 12-15 minutes is rather over cautious. 

It was the USB speed setting slider on the same panel I was concerned with in case you had accidently set it too high. For the moment, just check it's at 40% (fully to the left) when it appears when you first connect the camera.

We'll let you play with a new scope. Can't see you getting into trouble with that. 

Alan

Ok I can play with the cooldown which as I start it way before dark don't really matter.  What is a reasonable warm up form zero or whatever to how many below ambient, like say it's 23/4c tonight do you warm back to 24c or cut it at say 16c.

Also if I were to want to change the gain as I no doubt will, how do you do it?

All worked well this morning but couldn't see the moon as it was just too sunny on the screen but it was visible more or centre on a piggyback scope..

Alan

[symmetal]

When warming up just set the final temperature to reach to be around 5 to 10 degrees below ambient temperature. This is just to avoid a rapid large temperature change to the camera when it's unplugged which can stress the sensor.

The gain can be set in the Ascom driver or in the box labelled gain on the APT Camera tab. You see the Ascom driver settings when you first select a new camera. If the camera is connected automatically and the Ascom box doesn't appear you can click on the 'Settings' button at the bottom right of the APT Camera tab. A warning box appears saying the camera may need to be temporarily disconnected from APT to make the changes. I can't remember whether this may upset camera cooling if it's on. I'll have to check. In the APT 'Settings' panel you can set whether APT is allowed to change the gain or whether only the Ascom driver can. It can be advantageous to temporarily switch to higher gain settings when focusing and this can be set to happen automatically in APT if it's allowed to do so.

I'll do some screen shots later to make this clearer, as there are several places where the gain settings can be changed and it can get confusing. The 'Offset' can only be set in the Ascom driver so can't be changed in APT. There's a technical reason for this but I won't bore you with the details. 

For now just leave the gain at 90 (unity) as it is at the moment until you get more familiar with it.

Alan

Edited August 25, 2019 by symmetal