Skywatcher Esprit 150 or APM 140

[johnturley]

I am planning to upgrade my main refractor in 2020 (partly because of the favourable opposition of Mars in October of that year), which I will mount piggyback on my 14in Newtonian, on which my ES 127 is currently mounted. My two most favoured options are the Skywatcher Esprit 150, and the APM 140, but I am not planning to sell my ES 127, instead I intend to purchase a portable GOTO mount (probably the Skywatcher HEQ5, and possibly with the Rowan Belt modification), which would give me a more portable instrument than my Celestron 9.25 CPC. I also prefer the shorter tube length and wider field of an f7 rather than an f8 instrument, so was not considering the APM 152 or other makes of 6in f8 refractors.

The APM 140 would have the advantage that I could also mount it on the HEQ5 mount, whereas the Esprit 150 would probably be too heavy for this mount, requiring a heavier duty mount such as the EQ6 and not be very portable. The main snag however with the APM140, is that with only having an extra 13mm of aperture, would I notice much improvement over my ES 127 FDC 100 scope, and being a doublet it may not be as well colour corrected. The Esprit 150 with an extra 23 mm of aperture should show more of an improvement, and would be at least as well, if not better colour corrected. Although doublets do have the advantage of cooling down faster, with being housed in an observatory shed, the longer cool down time of a triplet would probably not be an issue.

If I really wanted to, I could stretch to a more high end refractor such as the TAK150, or the TEC 140 or 160, but would it be worth spending more than three times the price (Esprit 150 £4k, TAK150 and TEC 160 £13k) for something that would only be marginally better. A comparison between the Esprit 150 and TEC 160 was done on Cloudy Nights a few years ago, and the TEC 160 came out as being only marginally better, in addition Es Reid (a well-respected optician whom I know personally),  regularly checks Esprit 150’s and considers them optically to be almost as good as the TAK’s. Another possibility would be a TAK 130 at around £5k, but would I notice much improvement over my ES 127, although I have no doubt that some TAK owners will claim that there would be no comparison between them, and that a TAK 130 would equal or even outperform the Esprit 150.

John

[steppenwolf]

I need to warn you of my bias here as I am a very happy owner of an Esprit 150. As you already know, Es Reid rates these very highly and so he should, they are truly excellent instruments!

I can't see much advantage in going for the TAK 130 from an aperture point of view and if you are going to invest in this way, increased aperture should be part of the equation.

The Tec 140 is excellent and the increase in aperture would be worthwhile but with the Esprit's proven pedigree, why not go for the 150 aperture?

The mount becomes very significant here and if you go for a larger telescope like any of those you mention, the EQ6 would be the mount of choice unless you want to invest in something much more expensive.

I envy you being in this wonderful position and luckily, you have plenty of time to make the right, informed choice - good luck!

[Alan White]

Sorry to say I have nothing other than encouragement to add as I have never owned such a large refractor to date and possibly won't either.
I look forward to the replies in addition to Steve's above.
 

[Wiu-Wiu]

The Esprit 150 is on my bucket list in the very distant future. Very distant, because of the price. A TAK is simply out of range for me, and I just couldn't justify spending that amount of money if something equally good was available. 

Having said this, let's talk mounts.. 

Having a 127mm apo myself, and having the same prospects, I have recently invested in upgrading my mounts. I have no observatory so portability has been a great part of the equasion, but -and not least- has been the cost of such a mount. 

I have invested in iOptron mounts (and with A LOT of pleasure), and while the CEM 60 might still be portable and will probably carry an Esprit 150 and do an OK job (because it is heavy, but also rather small), if I would have a fixed observatory, I'd probably go for a CEM 120. 

So why not save yourself a lot of money on both ends and get something "as good as" for "a lot less" ? 

[jetstream]

Of those two scopes mentioned I would get the Esprit 150 Triplet. Has their been a bit of sample to sample variation with the APM 140?

[johnturley]

Many thanks to all those who have posted comments.

What I have read so far reinforces my initial preference for the Esprit 150, it would be mounted piggyback on my fork mounted 14in Newtonian, so I wouldn't be purchasing a mount specifically for this scope. The one advantage of the APM 140 would have been that I could have mounted either it, or my existing ES 127 on an HEQ5 mount.

The replies also reinforce my feelings that:-

1. It would not be worthwhile spending a lot of money just to upgrade to a high end scope in the 130-140 mm range such as the TAK 130 or the TEC 140              

2. There would be relatively little to gain over the Esprit 150 by spending over three times as much on a high end 150-160 mm scope such as the TAK 150 or the TEC 160

3.  

   John

Edited January 2, 2019 by johnturley

[Steve]

2 hours ago, johnturley said:

What I have read so far reinforces my initial preference for the Esprit 150, it would be mounted piggyback on my fork mounted 14in Newtonian, so I wouldn't be purchasing a mount specifically for this scope. 

I think the Esprit-150 will be too heavy to piggy-back on another telescope, even a large one. 

HTH

[johnturley]

34 minutes ago, Steve said:

I think the Esprit-150 will be too heavy to piggy-back on another telescope, even a large one. 

HTH

I did have an AP 6in f8 mounted piggyback on my 14in Newtonian with no problems, I think the Esprit 150 is a similar weight, but a shorter tube with it being f7.

John

[johnturley]

I took the plunge this week, and ordered my Esprit 150 from FLO, plus specified an Es Reid optical bench test. Although it is no longer in stock, with an expected delivery period of 6- 8 weeks, FLO said they would guarantee the current price of £3,995 provided that I paid in full in advance. I had originally intended to make the purchase in 2020 in time for the favourable opposition of Mars, but brought it forward as I think that an imminent price increase is highly likely with the recent fall in the pound in advance of a likely No Deal Brexit. To be honest I'm surprised that the price hasn't increased already, as the current UK price roughly matched the USA price of $6,000 when £1 = $1.50, now £1 = $1.20 and is set to fall further, one would expect the price to increase to around £5,000 or more. In comparison Astrograph have already substantially increased the price of TEC Refractors, the 140 to £7,700, and the 160 to £13,800.

I decided to order from FLO as I wanted the Es Reid (whom I know personally) optical bench test, some of the other UK retailers are still listing the Esprit 150 as being in stock and at the same price, but have doubts as to whether this is actually the case, as I understand that all Skywatcher products come via a single UK importer and wholesaler (Optical Vision), and stated stock levels refer to what is in stock with them, not at the actual retailer.

John

Edited August 3, 2019 by johnturley

[steppenwolf]

A good choice of both kit and supplier. It will be well worth the wait 😎

[kirkster501]

You'll never look back now you have a quality refractor.  They are superb instruments in every way.  Let's hope the skies stay clear for you!

[johnturley]

Received today an update from FLO regarding the delivery of my Esprit 150, it is expected to be in stock with them by  mid-September, so hopefully after the optical bench check by ES Reid, I should receive it by the end of September.

Looking at FLO’s website I’m glad I ordered it when I did, as the price has now risen to £4,299 (not surprising after recent falls in the value of the pound), but because I paid in full in advance, the price increase will not affect my order.

As an alternative to the Esprit 150, I did also consider the CFF 160 f6.5, although costing about two and a half times as much as the Esprit (but about 30% cheaper than the TEC equivalent), it did offer an extra 10mm of aperture, but with the same focal (tube) length, and most surprisingly 2kg lighter.  I made a tentative enquiry to CFF’s UK importers and distributors, Peak2Valley Instruments regarding pricing and delivery period, who informed my too my surprise, that they had actually got one in stock, which they were prepared to sell at a substantial discount off the list price, an offer which I was initially a bit tempted  by.

However after doing a bit of online research, it appeared that CFF scopes may suffer from inconsistent quality control, whereas some purchasers were delighted with the quality and performance of their scopes, others were less satisfied and ended up returning their scopes to the supplier for a refund, or sending them back to the factory for a recollimation. 

 I therefore became a bit suspicious as to why P2V Instruments were offering me a discount, which I hadn’t even asked for, and despite the falling pound, hence I decided to stick with the Esprit. At least I know that after checking and tuning (if necessary) by Es Reid and collecting direct from him, I will end up with a scope in good collimation, and perform as well as can be expected for that make and model.

John

Edited October 7, 2019 by johnturley