My new ASI294 (non-cooled)

[mantrain]

Hello all,

I Recently purchased a non cooled ASI 294 and not thinking about it too much I got the non cooled version to save money.  I could have made a mistake and I might exchange it but I loath paying $300 add'l for a internal fan. My question is, can I use nebuloisty to just process out any hot pixles?   How limited will I be with the non-cooled version? 

 

[cuivenion]

It's not just an internal fan it has a tec cooling device in there too. The lower temperature of the sensor means you get better results quicker because each individual exposure will have a much higher signal to noise ratio than the uncooled camera. As I remember the cooling is set point as well, which means that your dark frames will be more accurate. I'd say its worth it if you've got the money but I'm sure you can get good results with the uncooled version.

[SamAndrew]

The dark current (noise) is related to the temperature. The cooled camera doesn't just cool to ambient temperature, but 30 to 40 degrees C below ambient temp which will reduce dark noise by an order of magnitude.

[mantrain]

I can think of many ways I could mod a usb fan, like velcrowing a computer fan w small usb power source right over the camera.   It seems too simple/good to be true. But why not? 

[spillage]

The fan is just to disperse the heat from the cooling device (like your fridge). If you can afford the cooled version then I would get that. I think that allows set point cooling meaning that you can set the camera to a fixed temperature say -20. This will then allow you to take you calibration frames whenever you want rather than waste valuable imaging time.

[david_taurus83]

As above, it's not just a fan. It has a thermoelectric cooler (TEC) Peltier device to cool the sensor to sub zero temperatures. Some cameras do have a fan but they can only lower the temperature to maybe a few degrees below ambient where a Tec device can lower to sub zero temps and hold it there. If it really bugs you to pay the extra then that's fair enough, I understand. However, if your already having doubts about your purchase and if you can afford the cooled version, then I would say return it and get the cooled one. You might only regret it in a few months time when it's too late to return it where if you get the cooled, in 6 months time you won't even remember the $300!

[mantrain]

your right though, I will not remember the $300 in a few months. There is also the hassle of dealing with the return, but..

 

IS there any advantage to non cooled CMOS cameras like the ASI 294 versus a DSLR, in your opinion?  I have asked other people but I am interested in some more feedback.

[spillage]

Not sure if this helps:

 

 

Slightly smaller fov but I am sure the ASI would be much lighter than a dslr and I am sure the ASI  would not need to be modded.

[geordie85]

18 hours ago, mantrain said:

your right though, I will not remember the $300 in a few months. There is also the hassle of dealing with the return, but..

 

IS there any advantage to non cooled CMOS cameras like the ASI 294 versus a DSLR, in your opinion?  I have asked other people but I am interested in some more feedback.

I'd say maybe. On one hand you wouldn't need to have the ASI modded for better ha response but on the other hand you will need an ir/ uv cut filter and a laptop. 

[mantrain]

well as of today i still have my ASI 294 uncooled version. I am a little on the fence.  I am just starting out, and quite a few people have told me that I can have a lifetime of fun w the uncooled version. Still more have said it makes more sense to have a cooled.   

[Adam J]

9 hours ago, mantrain said:

well as of today i still have my ASI 294 uncooled version. I am a little on the fence.  I am just starting out, and quite a few people have told me that I can have a lifetime of fun w the uncooled version. Still more have said it makes more sense to have a cooled.   

The two technological pillars on which dedicated astronomy cameras sit are set point cooling and mono sensors. If you dont have one you had better have the other as a minimum. 

This being said I would say yes there is an advantage to the ASI294mc over a DSLR, but its not a big enough advantage to justify the additional money you paid for it above the cost of a used / modified DSLR. 

You are also hampered by the fact that the ASI294mc has a CMOS chip (IMX294) in it that has a higher than average Dark current at un-cooled temperatures. 

For my money I would be sticking with the DSLR as opposed to an uncooled dedicated camera for DSO imaging and would not purchase a dedicated camera without set point cooling.

You can have a lifetime of fun with a DSLR alone,  but you went for a dedicated camera because you wanted higher sensitivity (I assume) and to get the most out of it you want to be cooling it to -10c or lower all year round. 

So is another 300 pounds worth it?

It would not be just for a fan...but as others have said its not just a fan its a cooler, it lowers temperature to well below ambient and maintains a precise temperature for easy calibration.

Again in the case of the ASI294mc I would say that you really need set point cooling to calibrate as it suffers from AMP glow (as do many other Astro Camers), amp glow is easy to remove with calibration frames but not if you cant maintain the sensor at a steady temperature. 

I would say that the uncooled version of the ASI294mc pro is more of a long focal length solar / Luna imaging camera than a DSO camera. 

In summery GET THE COOLED ONE WHILE YOU STILL CAN. 

If not I suspect you will be wanting to move on from it rather soon and then it will cost you the loss in selling the uncooled one on and the 300 pounds more for the cooled version. 

Adam 

 

[mantrain]

yeah I am going to get the cooled version. But are there other options of good cooled cameras less than $1k ?

[Adam J]

2 hours ago, mantrain said:

yeah I am going to get the cooled version. But are there other options of good cooled cameras less than $1k ?

I would have to know what telescope you are planning to use it with, focal length and aperture.

I would say that if you want a One Shot Colour (OSC) then the ASI294mc Pro is your best bet.

If you are willing to consider mono then there are other options for you to consider depending on the rest of your kit.

[mantrain]

I have an Orion Eon 85mm.   Also, I was considering the Meade DSI iv. I am told that Meade most likely contracted ZWO to design it.

[Adam J]

11 hours ago, mantrain said:

I have an Orion Eon 85mm.   Also, I was considering the Meade DSI iv. I am told that Meade most likely contracted ZWO to design it.

Not heard much about your scope but it looks nice in the images.

Not sure about the Meade DSI iv as I have not seen any images from it yet. However it really does look well made, its drivers that would worry me.

I am assuming that you are still thinking about the color version and not the mono.

I will say that if you are in a light polluted area then you are better off with mono, even in exchange for a smaller sensor. I would suggest the ASI183mm pro would be the correct way to go within your budget you can start out with a manual wheel and a Ha filter.

If you are in a darker area then I would say that the ASI294mc pro is a great choice of color camera. I would get a UHC filter or a Duo Narrow Band Filter with it for imaging nebula.

What mount do you have?

Adam

 

[mantrain]

Hello, thank you for your response. I have an AVX mount, which from last night, has done a really great job tracking my objects. No discernible drift anymore, which I was previously struggling with on this mount until I tightened up polar alignment and wow, last night I tracked on my objects and  I swear for dozens of minutes, object not moving at all in FOV. So really now my next task is to learn darks, biases and flats.   The vendor where I bought the 294 does not have an 294 Pros in stock so even if I exchange my  camera they cannot swap it for a Pro model, I might just get the Meade DS! iv.

 

Regarding my sky cond, I live in a suburban zone, I guess it is Red, but I often drive 20 min east to a green zone.