H.N. Irving & Son 3" Refractor?

[Dave1]

Hello everyone

Long time no see. So some of you may remember me purchasing a Skywatcher Skymax 180 Pro Mak. Well short end of the stick is I didn't like the views through it. Its performance on stars bugged me right from the bat, I also found it hard to get it to focus very finely. Enough so, that I returned it for a full refund. It also had this problem of the finder scope producing a unsteady view. Which the vendor agreed with.

So I'm definitely a refractor fan through and through. I still have the urge to find a good condition British telescope.

I have found for sale a H.N. Irving and Son 3" F13 refractor with mount and tripod. It looks in good condition. I was hoping some of you more knowledgable folks might be able to shed some light on it? Like who was the lenses manufacturer? I suspect it might be Wildey?

Dave

Edited February 3, 2018 by Dave1

[nightfisher]

@philj is your man for this one

[F15Rules]

Hi Dave,

I too really like long achromats, and F13 is loooong, no doubt about it?..

My only comment would be that perhaps a 3" aperture would be too restrictive?

A 4" would show you a lot more and go a bit deeper. 

Do you have a particular budget in mind, and would you consider a modern scope? 

Finally, what would you mount it on? A longish refractor would need a decent mount. That said, so would a Mak 180, so you may well have something suitable already.

Once we know a little more, we can hopefully help a bit more. Jules is right though, Phil Jaworek is a guru on matters long refractor, so hopefully he will chip in too.

If you really want a long 3", they are to be had now and again, like this one attached...it started life as a Meade 300, then was transformed into a modern looking scope by Moonraker. The original is an 80mm F15 (1200mm FL) Japanese achromat and is very good optically for its' size.

They are sometimes on eBay in good used condition, under brand names like Towa, Topic, Meade, Tasco and carry a Circle T (Towa) or Circle K (Kenko) logo on the focuser. Expect to pay c£50 up to £150 for one in good original condition complete with mount..but you'd want to use a modern stable mount and tripod- they can take high power on good nights!

Mine below is shown on a CG5 on a heavy duty wooden tripod.

Dave?

Edited February 4, 2018 by F15Rules
Additional info and photos added

[nightfisher]

I think i would be looking at a modern Achro like the Bresser 127L if you have a decent mount, or a 100ED

[F15Rules]

+1 if you want to go more modern.

I've owned both and liked both. The ED100 is superb for the cost and almost free of CA visually, the AR127 is larger, shows more, but with a bit more CA on bright objects☺.

Dave

Edited February 4, 2018 by F15Rules

[Dave1]

Hi guys, thanks for the responses.

As I understand it, H.N. Irving, was the last of the great telescopes builders from the golden period of British telescope makers. Yes I agree that 3" is quite small and I already have a Skylight 60mm with Carton lenses. And a Towa 339 80mm F15, which I want to get the lenses checked on? I'll start another thread for that. The main point of the Irving telescope is, its from a maker from the British heyday of telescopes, possible with a very good lenses from Wildey. I'd prefer 4" obviously.

I have a Berlebach Uni 28 tripod with an Altair Sabre 2 mount. The only modern Achro I've considered at the moment is the Bresser Messier AR102/1350 F13. Having done a lot of searching here and on Cloudy Nights, 4" long refractor telescope seem to be popular nowadays, because they are still just manageable and have good performance.

 

Dave 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Dave1

[Stu]

@Dave1 this one has been hanging around for a long time, it's 4" f15, presumably Vixen optics. I assume the price is too high for it to shift, and I gues f15 4" is loooooong!

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=133447

[Chris]

Unless you're imaging or after a travel scope 100mm really is the sweet spot for aperture in the UK, I've heard this said time and time again. Another vote for the ED100 or one of the new Bresser 102/1350 f/13's if you like classic scopes and have the mount for it  

EDIT: Sorry I missed your last post where you mention you've already considered the Bresser.

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Lockie

[Dave1]

Thanks for the replies guys.

@StuYes that one has been for sale going on 3 years. It has been around for awhile. I have spoken to the seller before, he wont budge on price. And I don't think it is a good scope. It has Vixen optics, which isn't bad in anyway, the point I'm making is its a bitsa scope made up of parts.

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, Dave1 said:

Thanks for the replies guys.

@StuYes that one has been for sale going on 3 years. It has been around for awhile. I have spoken to the seller before, he wont budge on price. And I don't think it is a good scope. It has Vixen optics, which isn't bad in anyway, the point I'm making is its a bitsa scope made up of parts.

Is it really three years? Crazy!

I assume he just doesn't want to sell as otherwise that should be long enough (by a factor of about 12!) to know it is too expensive. Hadn't realised it was as you say, there is a lot less value in scopes like that without a provenance of some sort. Best left I agree.

[Chris]

1 minute ago, Dave1 said:

Thanks for the replies guys.

@StuYes that one has been for sale going on 3 years. It has been around for awhile. I have spoken to the seller before, he wont budge on price. And I don't think it is a good scope. It has Vixen optics, which isn't bad in anyway, the point I'm making is its a bitsa scope made up of parts.

I think the Bresser 102 f/13 would be very close optically to that particular scope for half the price. I've not owned that particular Bresser but the 90mm version and the 127L, and I was very impressed with the optics, better than the Synta Achros I've tried in all honestly. 

I also messaged the guy a few years back and it's collection only too, but I can kind of understand that with such a long scope.

[Dave1]

15 minutes ago, Lockie said:

I think the Bresser 102 f/13 would be very close optically to that particular scope for half the price. I've not owned that particular Bresser but the 90mm version and the 127L, and I was very impressed with the optics, better than the Synta Achros I've tried in all honestly. 

I also messaged the guy a few years back and it's collection only too, but I can kind of understand that with such a long scope.

That's a good endorsement, as I may cull my collection of telescopes after acquiring the my next telescope. The first telescope on the hit list is the Helios Evostar 120, which I may sell with tripod and mount, undecided on the mount and tripod though.

[Cosmic Geoff]

I have a vintage Ross, London (genuine, not replica) 70mm terrestrial refractor with a long focal length. I have not been able to unscrew the erector lenses which expand the focal ratio even more, but both with the original eyepiece and with a modern 20mm Plossl (the latter giving a very high magnification), the performance is first rate.  I clamped a dovetail bar on it and occasionally give it an airing on a AZ-4 or EQ-5 mount (the minimum required).  I have had nice views of Saturn and epsilon1/epsilon2 Lyrae with it.  Apparently an earlier owner got it from Charles Frank of Glasgow along with an equatorial mounting and surveyor type wooden tripod, which I saw but did not acquire.

This telescope totally outperformed a 70mm supermarket refractor which I also owned at the time.

[Dave1]

@Cosmic Geoff thanks for that input. I was hoping for some feed back from classic telescope users. Do you still have your Ross telescope? I'd be very interested in seeing it? 

[Stu]

I see these every now and then, they look lovely  

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253398267048

[Dave1]

They do indeed look lovely, a rebadge Vixen by all accounts. Looks like it might be old stock Vixen telescopes being rebadged and sold. This could actually be a very good buy indeed. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

43 minutes ago, Dave1 said:

Do you still have your Ross telescope? I'd be very interested in seeing it? 

Yes. Here's a picture of it on the AZ-4.

 

[nightfisher]

59 minutes ago, Stu said:

I see these every now and then, they look lovely  

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253398267048

That looks a super scope, if the optics are good at 1200mm f/l i bet the views on Luna, planets and doubles are superb plus it takes modern ep`s

[Dave1]

Nightfisher I just did a search on here, didn't you once own a Vixen 80mm F15?

[nightfisher]

14 minutes ago, Dave1 said:

Nightfisher I just did a search on here, didn't you once own a Vixen 80mm F15?

I had the standard Vixen 80M custom Achro and to be brutally honest .................i wish i still had it, it gave cracking views, but aperture fever got in the way!

I also had an Antares 105 F15 that was said to have Vixen sourced optics but it was way way to long to be sensible

[Stu]

4 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

I had the standard Vixen 80M custom Achro and to be brutally honest .................i wish i still had it, it gave cracking views, but aperture fever got in the way!

I also had an Antares 105 F15 that was said to have Vixen sourced optics but it was way way to long to be sensible

Could give that f15 a try Jules?

[nightfisher]

12 minutes ago, Stu said:

Could give that f15 a try Jules?

Not really in the market for scopes 

[Dave1]

I have wrote the H.N. Irving telescope off, the seller has changed his mind on people being able to arrange a courier to collect it and deliver. He's now stating it is collection only. 

I am very torn between the Vixen 80mm F15 and the Bresser AR102/1350. The Vixen should be better than the Towa 80mm. If I get the Vixen 80mm F15, I will sell my Towa F15 80mm. 

The Bresser of course has bigger aperture and good optics, I should be able to see more than an 80mm telescope. The 80mm Vixen is tempting because of its size and portability, and the fact it has very good optics, the fact its already fitted with a dual speed Crayford focusers is also tempting me, it's basically what I am gradually doing to the Towa. I have through comparing photo's satisfied myself that it is definitely a Vixen lenses in that telescope. I tend to use my smaller telescopes more than my 5"!

Hmm

 

[nightfisher]

My old Vixen 80 was the F11.1 from memory and it really delivered with Solar system objects

[Stu]

3 hours ago, nightfisher said:

Not really in the market for scopes 

Are you not looking at a 150mm f6?