Autoguider and Scope Choice

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

Hi all

Can someone help me! Autoguider there seems to be so much choice! 

I have a Skywatcher 150pds on eq6 I was thinking about this Scope http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7073_TS-Optics-Deluxe-60-mm-Guiding-Finder-scope-with-micro-focusing.html

as I have a longer focal length. Put it together with a zwo? Where do I start? Will it work? Any advice! I'm fed up at looking at google. Will the Orion package work? Or is the focal length too short they say it needs to be a 3rd?

HELP!

 

[AKB]

I bought one of those (actually, an Altair Astro badged one) for my 8" Skywatcher Quattro.

I have to say that the helical focuser is absolutely NOT up to the job.  There is FAR too much lateral play to use for guiding.  I sent it back twice (to Altair Astro) and was rather unhappy with the service.  However, in the end I simply replaced the non-rotating helical focuser with a simple rotating one which is absolutely solid. 

Also, whilst the Synta shoe is convenient, I remounted the guide rings on a Losmandy clamp which just clips on to a dovetail on the scope.

And another also: guide rings are a bit redundant these days - you can almost always get several more than adequate guide stars in the FOV without moving anything physically.  I use a ZWO ASI120MM camera.

The scope itself is great for guiding.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

3 minutes ago, AKB said:

I bought one of those (actually, an Altair Astro badged one) for my 8" Skywatcher Quattro.

I have to say that the helical focuser is absolutely NOT up to the job.  There is FAR too much lateral play to use for guiding.  I sent it back twice (to Altair Astro) and was rather unhappy with the service.  However, in the end I simply replaced the non-rotating helical focuser with a simple rotating one which is absolutely solid. 

Also, whilst the Synta shoe is convenient, I remounted the guide rings on a Losmandy clamp which just clips on to a dovetail on the scope.

And another also: guide rings are a bit redundant these days - you can almost always get several more than adequate guide stars in the FOV without moving anything physically.  I use a ZWO ASI120MM camera.

The scope itself is great for guiding.

Oh I'm glad I asked them! Thanks. So what is a good guide Scope that I do not have to change the focuser? What about the Orion autoguider package heard any reports? The only thing that concerns me is the focal length. 

Gerry

[vlaiv]

I have TS 60mm version with helical non rotational focuser - works a treat for me, had no issues with it what so ever. I used Qhy5IILc and ASI185 on it, and guided up to 1200mm F/L with it so far. Planing to guide my RC8" with it as well - To be precise, I think it guides well up to 1"/pixel resolution (with appropriate camera like ASI120 / 185 / 224 or something with pixel size in 3.75um range).

My current plan is to use ASI185 and IR pass filter to guide in NIR range with this scope - not yet sure if it will work and will it be improvement - but hoping so.

Optics on this guider (not really important for guiding) are quite fast and being achromatic doublet - star shapes can be a bit odd if you don't take care to filter out far blue / red part of spectrum. I often use IR cut filter and yellow wratten #8 to cut down blues. Other issue that I noticed (not particularly related to scope it self) - is dewing - it tends to dew up faster than the main scope - can be somewhat corrected with custom dew shield extension.

[AKB]

11 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

can be somewhat corrected with custom dew shield extension.

Yes, agree with that.  I use a cut down yoga mat with a bit of Velcro as an extender. 

 

13 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I have TS 60mm version with helical non rotational focuser

Really?  Is there no lateral play on that to speak of?

[vlaiv]

1 minute ago, AKB said:

Really?  Is there no lateral play on that to speak of?

I was not even aware it was a possibility until you mentioned it. Might have been a doggy sample on your scope or I'm just lucky to have one that works ok. I just tighten two screws when I insert camera - one for focuser to stop it rotating / changing position and another one for compression ring and it everything is solid. I do have to use 1.25" nose extension piece on both guiders - ASI185 comes with one, and I had to get 1.25" extension for Qhy (I used both just extension ring 20mm and proper 1.25" extension with compression ring and both worked). I once used ASI185 with t2 10mm extension (if screwed directly on T2 thread on guide scope it will not reach focus, I guess sensor is just too close to T2 thread on camera) and it worked as well - that time I just tightened focuser lock screw and did not bother with compression ring one - still was solid.

[AKB]

2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

I was not even aware it was a possibility until you mentioned it. Might have been a doggy sample on your scope or I'm just lucky to have one that works ok.

I've had three goes at this... still have two of them.  All bad.  There's a small amount of play at the joint highlighted in the picture and with a camera on the end, this shifts a star image far too much to guide reliably.  IMHO, it's not even good enough for just plain optical finder use.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

Thanks for posting that. I'm still not sure what other options there are that people find reliable. 

[Andyk93]

I have just bought an Altair Astro 60mm mini guider. It's a really well made piece of kit and I have found it perfect for guiding

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, Andyk93 said:

I have just bought an Altair Astro 60mm mini guider. It's a really well made piece of kit and I have found it perfect for guiding

This sort of thing?

https://www.altairastro.com/altair-60mm-miniguider-with-autoguider-webcam-focuser-tube-rings-multi-purpose-base.html

...it's essentially the system I end up with.  Note the different focuser.

Pin-sharp focusing is not essential for guiding, indeed it might be detrimental.  You don't do it often and, indeed, I keep my camera fixed on the guide scope.  This works well.

 

[Andyk93]

14 minutes ago, AKB said:

This sort of thing?

https://www.altairastro.com/altair-60mm-miniguider-with-autoguider-webcam-focuser-tube-rings-multi-purpose-base.html

...it's essentially the system I end up with.  Note the different focuser.

Pin-sharp focusing is not essential for guiding, indeed it might be detrimental.  You don't do it often and, indeed, I keep my camera fixed on the guide scope.  This works well.

 

That's the exact one I bought. I found it very easy to focus anyway, it took about 5 minutes but once it's done it's just fixed and you never have to touch it again

[spillage]

I have the 130pds and 150pds and one has a st80 and the other a standard 50mm small guide scope on a shoe connector. Both share a qhy5m and they are both fine.

The 50mm guide scope has just three screws and no focuser.

I was always under the impression that phd prefers the focus to be a bit anyway.

[vlaiv]

3 hours ago, AKB said:

I've had three goes at this... still have two of them.  All bad.  There's a small amount of play at the joint highlighted in the picture and with a camera on the end, this shifts a star image far too much to guide reliably.  IMHO, it's not even good enough for just plain optical finder use.

Just been outside trying to build PEC curve for my new setup (and again Gremlins creep up in the dark - my laptop decided to shut down itself for some reason while I was away in the house having a drink, got "We are sorry / this is embarrassing / wanna send report to Microsoft?" notification when I powered up again, but all was lost because eqmod lost sync - mount kept happily tracking while laptop was down). So I had a chance to checkout guide scope and mentioned play. I feel absolutely nothing under fingers, no play what so ever. Did yours have play that you could feel by hand or was it something that you noticed only on camera image?

[AKB]

9 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Did yours have play that you could feel by hand or was it something that you noticed only on camera image?

Definitely easy to feel just when applying even a gentle twist to focus the thing, or a very gentle lateral push on the camera.  All three were slightly different, but as I say, I wouldn't even want to use them for visual.

Glad yours is OK.  I tried, I really did, with the vendor, but my takeaway from this is that I will not be going back to them again.  Thankfully, we have FLO and a few good others to use, but they didn't stock this item.

[AKB]

Note also that on this product page, for the focuser upgrade only:

https://www.altairastro.com/Precision-Auto-Guiding-Camera-Focuser-Altair-60mm-80mm-RACI-finder.html

it states

Quote

The Altair Astro 60mm finder is in fact completely ready for autoguiding, except for the helical focuser which while very convenient, is designed for eyepieces and is not rigid enough for auto-giuding.

... I find this a bit rich when the original package is actually sold as an finder/guider system.

[alacant]

Hi. I think most of the stuff quoted is Chinese so maybe get it direct? How about a 60mm guidescope. Add a guide camera (they'll send you the monochrome version for the same price). Guide telescope and camera for under €200. HTH.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

11 hours ago, spillage said:

I have the 130pds and 150pds and one has a st80 and the other a standard 50mm small guide scope on a shoe connector. Both share a qhy5m and they are both fine.

The 50mm guide scope has just three screws and no focuser.

I was always under the impression that phd prefers the focus to be a bit anyway.

As you have the 150pds I'm leaning towards the 60mm guide Scope. What do you think will it work or do I need a longer focal length? 

 

Gerry

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

Ok I think I'll go for the 60mm Scope. What about camera? Any good suggestions? 

Gerry

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

4 hours ago, AKB said:

Note also that on this product page, for the focuser upgrade only:

https://www.altairastro.com/Precision-Auto-Guiding-Camera-Focuser-Altair-60mm-80mm-RACI-finder.html

it states

... I find this a bit rich when the original package is actually sold as an finder/guider system.

I notice that you have the zwo120mm. Did you need the focuser for this camera then? It's actually the one I'm looking at!

thanks

[AKB]

1 minute ago, Gerry Casa Christiana said:

I notice that you have the zwo120mm. Did you need the focuser for this camera then? It's actually the one I'm looking at!

Sorry... WHICH focuser?  I originally wanted a non-rotating one since it seemed like it would be easier, but for the reasons above finally went with the lockable rotating one.  You'll need something to get approximately the correct back focus.  The 1.25" adapter on the focuser works just fine with the nosepiece supplied with the ASI120MM, but I also needed an additional 7.5mm T-thread spacer to bring it up to the right length.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

4 minutes ago, AKB said:

Sorry... WHICH focuser?  I originally wanted a non-rotating one since it seemed like it would be easier, but for the reasons above finally went with the lockable rotating one.  You'll need something to get approximately the correct back focus.  The 1.25" adapter on the focuser works just fine with the nosepiece supplied with the ASI120MM, but I also needed an additional 7.5mm T-thread spacer to bring it up to the right length.

Sorry I meant this one https://www.altairastro.com/Precision-Auto-Guiding-Camera-Focuser-Altair-60mm-80mm-RACI-finder.html

So it's not necessary? Just a 7.5mm spacer is fine. 

[AKB]

1 hour ago, Gerry Casa Christiana said:

So it's not necessary? Just a 7.5mm spacer is fine. 

no, no...  what you should be seeing on the picture is the guidescope + focuser + T-extender + camera.

That is to say, you only need to add the T-extender to the advertised guidescope, which comes with the rotating helical focuser.

[spillage]

I think the 60mm will be fine. I find the st80 easier but this has the focuser. I guess a lot is dependent on the weight limits for your mount.

 

[Andyk93]

This is the correct one to buy. 

https://www.altairastro.com/altair-60mm-miniguider-with-autoguider-webcam-focuser-tube-rings-multi-purpose-base.html

it comes with the correct focuser, just put your camera into the holder and focus it. Nothing else is necessary, I've tested it with an aso120 and qhy5 and it doesn't need any extensions

[AKB]

12 hours ago, Andyk93 said:

I've tested it with an aso120 and qhy5 and it doesn't need any extensions

You're absolutely right, my mistake.  The extender is only there to make the assembly parfocal with my Starlight Xpress cameras.  My apologies for misleading.