Skywatcher heritage virtuoso

[Laurencommins]

I had some help on my other thread this morning about wether to buy binoculars or not, I think we've decided to go straight for a telescope and I love the idea of auto tracking with having a 5 year old who will also want to join in! 

My question is do I go for the 90 or the 114 and why please  

[ronin]

Will say I do not like it but of the 2 the 90mm.

The 114 is a "fast" newtonian, and that can be a problem. Collimation needs to be maintained and even eyepieces may need to be greater cost to get good views. Seems like too much possible trouble especially with a 5 year old.

The 90 is a Mak so compact and basically maintenance free, the drawback of the 90 is that being a Mak the field of view is narrow, so getting something in the field of view may be a problem and then frustration or boredom can set in.

Does make me wonder why Skywatcher did not put a 60mm or 70mm diameter 500mm focal length refractor on that mount. Easy scope, wide field, no maintenance. Would have made sense - I think.

[Ricochet]

I don't think there's really a wrong answer choosing between the two. In theory the mak (90) is better suited for planetary and the newt (114) for wide field but the field of view of a small mak isn't that small and you can add a Barlow to the newt to do planetary. I would probably choose the 114 for the slightly better light gathering capacity if I was in your position. 

[Laurencommins]

We've just had a relative round saying it would be a waste of money as we won't be able to see anything because of clouds etc, she's kind of put me off but is she right?

[happy-kat]

The 90 mak would be easier for a young child to look into. You might like this read.

Link here

If it is cloudy of course you will see nothing. A 90 mak could show objects like deep space items but as with most telescopes the object will appear a grey fuzzy patch, it's the the thrill of looking up what you saw on google afterwards that helps bring it alive. You would need to learn to star hop to find things to look at a book like 'Turn left at orion' helps.

Sometimes lidl do 10*50 binoculars for £20 you could hang on and catch their next offer.

 

[Alien 13]

I have a 90 mm Mak and its a lovely little scope, gives stunning lunar views for its size.

Alan

[Cosmic Geoff]

There are a lot of telescopes available, lots of different designs and prices, which is confusing for the beginner. 

Maksutovs are fine telescopes (I have a 127mm).

If ease of finding lots of objects in the sky is a priority, get a computerised Goto telescope outfit, e.g. Nexstar or Synscan. The interest generated by being able to find thousands of objects quickly easily outweighs the extra cost.

If quickness of setting up is a priority, get a smallish scope on a simple alt-azimuth mount.

Mounts are a major area of choice. In general, the cheaper the mount, the more annoying it will be to use. In the beginner ranges, weight and portability are not a serious issue. For rigid mounts, expect to pay more.

[brantuk]

I wouldn't worry about clouds - it's not just you - none of us will see anything lol

But it is a pertinent point that the UK does get a lot of cloud and as such our hobby is frequently interrupted by them. It's also notable that the best viewing is done in the middle of winter when the sky is steady, crisp and clear (rather than the happy families round the barbie with bins and scopes on warm summer nights, too frequently depicted on adverts and packaging).

I would go for a Heritage 100P or a similar 130P for a starter scope see here:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-heritage-100p-tabletop-dobsonian.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

Or the motorised version if it falls within your budget.

Both easy and quick to set up and get going, and both will give good views and a great start in the hobby. The larger aperture will show a fair few more objects than the smaller one. I'd also recommend a book like Turn Left At Orion" and a planisphere. You can also download "Stellarium" for free to see the sky at your location on your pc screen. Hth

[ghostdance]

I have the 90 Heritage Mak ( but without the mount or electronic gubbins, which can be useful with this scope) - it is indeed *lovely* on the Moon and can show you Saturn and Jupiter, but as has been said, it has a long focal length hence a narrow field of view so you'll need a wide field eyepiece like 30 - 32 mm to widen the view some. I personally don't find the 90 much use in looking at star clusters or groups ( you won't see the whole cluster/group/pattern because of the narrow FOV, or many DSOs (M13 in Hercules is OK, + M57 and M27) especially the fainter fuzzies - partly I think because of where I live ( city skies so a hefty light pollution and lots of thermals ) and partly because of limited light gathering + focal length. My Short Tube 80 ( ST 80) is in many ways  more satisfying, and certainly more-used...it complements my 6" reflector (150mm) nicely and is, as is the 90mm, light, small and easily portable.

TBH, I'm thinking of moving the 90 on, but want to give it a fairer shakedown at a dark site first.

But do remember this is only my experience. My skies my eyes...

And NO, your aunty/granny/ sister/mother is dead wrong! She needs to look through a telescope at the Pleiades or Saturn or the Moon or....I could go on. Tena may be needed....

[Laurencommins]

Someone local to me is selling a skywatcher bkp1145eq1 - is this any good? 

If not the 100p and 130p were the other ones I was looking at

Is it worth the money for one with a motorised mount or should we just go for a "manual" one? Is it just another thing that breaks? 

Im really struggling about what to get as I don't understand all of these numbers and phrases! (I am a woman after all ?) 

i just need someone to tell me what to buy! No pressure! Hehe!

[happy-kat]

I would not buy an eq1 or any eq mount so I'd walk away from that telescope.

[Laurencommins]

Thank you @happy-kat could you explain what an Eq mount is please (sorry) and do either the 100p or 130p have this? 

[happy-kat]

Equatorial mount. Neither of those telescopes have one, their mount is a dobsonian mount and is very straight forward to use.

[faulksy]

hi and welcome to star gazers lounge

a eq mount is basicaly a tripod but it needs carefull setup, not ideal when first starting out.

the telescope brantuk mentioned is very good, and you will get to see lots of lovely things, the last thing you want is not being able to find anything

[brantuk]

An equatorial mount is great but it has to be the right one. The EQ1 is very unstable and wobbly and doesn't work terribly well for anything but the very lightest scopes - even then it's iffy - more of a toy thing imho. My first scope had an eq3-2 which was just manageable - but an EQ5 is my baseline now - I'd never get anything less than that - just not worth the hassle. Hth

[alexbb]

Hi,

The German Equatorial Mount: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_mount

Regarding the virtuoso mount: the Non GoTo version the alignment procedure is about the following: level the mount, point the telescope to the celestial north (close to Polaris), lower the telescope to a horizontal position, start up the mount, point the telescope upwards - ie. 52 degrees if you're at 52 degrees latitude - then you need to press a button or two (don't remember which one). This activates the tracking, but you still have to find the objects by yourself. I find that difficult with just a Red Dot Finder if you live in the city. Also, the narrow field of view of the 90 Mak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maksutov_telescope) makes it difficult for star hopping. The 114 newtonian has a larger field of view, but you need to collimate it and I'm not confident that the optics will be very good.

If you're choosing the GoTo version, I think it's kind of expensive for what it offers.

At more than 250 euros for the basic virtuoso you could get a 6" dobson. Though, it's not that portable and it also has to be collimated.

I find these as better portable scopes + mounts and they don't need to be collimated:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-102-az3.html - this has a shorter focal length -> larger field of view
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/evostar/skywatcher-evostar-90-az3.html - this one has a longer focal length, though shorter than the 90 Mak

or even this, not much more expensive: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-102-synscan-az-goto.html

Let us know how is your sky and how portable do you need the setup to be.

Regards,

Alex

[Laurencommins]

You are all very helpful thank you  

our back garden at night is very dark, there are street lights at the front but they don't light up the garden! We have a patio area with a table and chairs which is where we will place the telescope. I like the look of the table top ones rather than the faffy looking tripods!

We might want to take it camping with us when we go. Other than that we just wanted it to be easy to set up and bring inside when we're done. 

I think something simple to use would be best since I don't want to be on here pestering all the time  ! 

Which is the most common one for a starter scope? 

Thanks again  

[Laurencommins]

Also sorry, what is the difference between the ones @brantuk recommended 

[happy-kat]

EQ 3-2 and EQ5 going up in price very considrably and take a bit longer to set up and cart outside and not ideal for a small child to either use or even look through the eyepeice. For your needs I would suggest staying away from an equatorial mount.

 

The startravel refractor telescopes are nice, easy to use, fairly child proof and look like a telescope with an eyepeice at one end but they are further up in price.

There is no exact right model it is finding a balance between what is in budget, what fits in with what you need be it space, garden, storage, ease of use etc.

The sky is going nowehere while you take time to decide which is right for you.

[brantuk]

All scopes operate on one of two basic mount types - Equatorial, or, Alt/Az (altitude and azimuth). Alt/Az mounts simply move up/down/left and right - movement in two planes is required to track. Equatorial mounts however are set up to point parallel to Earths axis at the celestial pole from your latitude on Earth. They describe the same track across the sky as the natural movement of the stars, as the Earth turns on it's axis. So only one movement is required to track objects.

Each of these two types of mount come in a variety of sizes and materials (wood/metal/carbon etc) that affect the stability of the apparatus. And they may or may not include tracking motors, and can be small enough to stand on a picnic table - or large enough to require a step ladder to reach the eyepiece.

Which scope you put on your chosen mount is also subject to three general types. You can get "reflectors" (eg Newtonian) which gathers light on a mirror and focuses it back up the tube to a diagonal which projects the image through the side of the scope where you magnify it with an eyepiece.

Then there's "refractors" which focus light through a glass lens at the front, down to the end of the tube where a diagonal mirror turns it to a comfy observing position - again magnified by an eyepiece.

The third type is "compound" where light is bounced up and down the tube between mirrors to achieve a long focal length in a short tube. Notably Cassegraines (either Maksutov or Schmit) - simply named after their designers - much like the newtonian named after Isaac newton.

One thing to note - adding electronics for tracking or goto always hikes the price up and may result in compromises with scope type and size. Re-read Ronin's first answer to your OP - he sums up the merits of your two suggested scopes very nicely. Sorry for the long post but hope it has put it all in context for you.

 

[Laurencommins]

Thanks @brantuk ... I have re read the post you suggested and although it's starting to sink in now and making a little more sense (phew) the comment has put me off both of them , I don't want to be frustrated by a small field of view or be confused further by "collimination" and buying all sorts of different lenses (which I'm not sure I understand much about) 

what scope would you go for if you were in my situation  

[brantuk]

It's hard picking for others cos we all have our own preferences and budgets. For a manual starter scope this one is hard to beat and would be my preference - newtonians always offer best bang for your buck - all depends on your max budget I guess:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

But you will find all scopes need collimation at some stage cos they do fall out of alignment - some more often than others. That said it's no biggie to worry about - quite easy once you understand what's going on.

 

[Alien 13]

These are the kind of scopes you will probably need to look at https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html as for choosing between them then that will depend on what how much setup time you are prepared to put in.

Alan

[alexbb]

This should be a good read: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-equipment/how-to-choose-a-telescope/

It describes telescope types, mounts, sizes, magnification, maintenance and more and it provides some links for further reading.

Do yourself a favor and spend some time reading before spending.

I think I used my mak on the virtuoso less than 5 times for night time observing. Had some lunar and solar (with a filter) shots with the DSLR though.

Visit a local club if possible!

[andyb505]

2 hours ago, Laurencommins said:

our back garden at night is very dark, there are street lights at the front but they don't light up the garden! We have a patio area with a table and chairs which is where we will place the telescope. I like the look of the table top ones rather than the faffy looking tripods!

We might want to take it camping with us when we go. Other than that we just wanted it to be easy to set up and bring inside when we're done. 

Well I was a complete beginner two years ago and bought the cheapest and simplest telescope I could find (that was recommended though, by various people), the Skywatcher heritage 130p. It is very simple to use, packs up quite small (so you can take it on holiday like I did to Cornwall) and gives great views of the night sky. It will sit very happily on a small table (I have a wooden folding one that I use) and takes minutes to set up and put away. It is completely manual, so you have to know where you want to look in the sky, but that has helped me to learn about how to find objects and where they are in the constellations. It will give you views that are "upside down and back to front" because of the design but you soon get used to that. I would recommend it to any beginner.