The Next Steps for 2 Inch EP Viewing, What Are

[rwilkey]

On 14/06/2016 at 01:46, yanello said:

Good evening White Dwarf,

Well, I too agree that barlowing a low power ep does not seem fitting. Yet, two things prod me on the path I am on, though a babe I am indeed. One, I do not like 1.25 ep very much at all (yet, I have only one 2 in ep in my collection). Two, I heard that barlowing DSO in general can be desirable. And so, why not barlow with a 2 in ep, my preferred giant way of looking at things? Maybe I am just too inexperienced to heed your advice. What say ye? Thanks, Pat 

Hi Pat,

Perhaps some of it is personal preference, I don't know, but I once started out on the 2" road with an intention only to use 2", but then I soon changed my mind when I realized it was more comfortable to use 1.25" ep's for planetary and lunar viewing, and I still prefer it this way.  Handling 2" ep's all the time can be cumbersome in my opinion, they can be quite heavy and a few of them really weighs down your ep case.  No, I find a healthy mix of both is my preference.  Having said that, my high power ep's I recently changed to ES 82 series in the 1.25" format, so I have widefields (82 degrees) even at high power, so some would say the best of both worlds.

Whatever you choose, enjoy the experience, and keep asking questions (of yourself and others!)

[yanello]

On 6/16/2016 at 02:21, Paul73 said:

If you like the "spacewalk" views, don't buy the zoom. It is one eyepiece trying to be many! Something has to give. In this case, as mentioned above, it is the field of view which is positively claustrophobic. The quality of view is fine for the price and the convenience for a "grab & go" is undisputed. But, for imersive wide field viewing. No.

Hope that this helps.

Paul

I agree. I am letting go of the baader zoom idea, though i like that thing! I shall head in the direction of a great low power ep, and a great high power ep, and a tv powermate to split em into two so to speak. Good evening, pat

[yanello]

6 hours ago, rwilkey said:

Hi Pat,

Perhaps some of it is personal preference, I don't know, but I once started out on the 2" road with an intention only to use 2", but then I soon changed my mind when I realized it was more comfortable to use 1.25" ep's for planetary and lunar viewing, and I still prefer it this way.  Handling 2" ep's all the time can be cumbersome in my opinion, they can be quite heavy and a few of them really weighs down your ep case.  No, I find a healthy mix of both is my preference.  Having said that, my high power ep's I recently changed to ES 82 series in the 1.25" format, so I have widefields (82 degrees) even at high power, so some would say the best of both worlds.

Whatever you choose, enjoy the experience, and keep asking questions (of yourself and others!)

Good evening, 

I have my eye on es 82 ep in 1.25. So, im heading down the path of a good 2 in ep and a good 1.25 ep, powermated. So, three ep on the buy list. Also a telrad. I am quite pleased with you and your star gazing friends here on stargazers lounge. Its amazing to start a new interest in the heavens, and at the same time find an excellent people and place like this. In a few days of discussion with you and the others, i am getting my feet stabilized to walk stronger nd farther. I thank god for this. Pat

 

[yanello]

Good evening,

Whats the benefit/difference of the es 82 degree 11mm compared to the 14 in the same? Also, which would barlow for better usability, sky reality wise? I wil buy the 11 or 14, depending on what i can discern between the two.  Today i bought a telrad. Thank you, pat

[Ricochet]

7 hours ago, yanello said:

Good evening,

Whats the benefit/difference of the es 82 degree 11mm compared to the 14 in the same? Also, which would barlow for better usability, sky reality wise? I wil buy the 11 or 14, depending on what i can discern between the two.  Today i bought a telrad. Thank you, pat

Performance wise I am not aware of any major variance in the ES82 line and so it is just a case of choosing the focal length that suits you best. In an XT8 and comparing with the default eyepieces to try to give you a comparison:

10mm Plossl: Mag=120x, TFoV=0.42, Exit Pupil=1.67
11mm: Mag=109x, TFoV=0.75, Exit Pupil=1.83
14mm: Mag=86x, TFoV=0.96, Exit Pupil=2.33
28mm Deepsky: Mag=43x, TFoV=1.31 Exit Pupil=4.67

Magnification is pretty self explanatory, TFoV is the amount of sky you can see in degrees, and for exit pupil a bigger number is brighter and a smaller number dimmer.

Assuming you were to choose a 2X barlow then the 14mm would give you a TFoV of 0.48 which is slightly bigger than that of the 10mm Plossl than you're currently struggling with while the 11mm would give a smaller TFoV than your Plossl and a magnification that could be too much for your atmosphere a lot of the time if it is anything like we have in the UK (but it could be fine). Personally I would probably play it safe and go with the 14 if it is going to be barlowed.  Alternatively, there is a 6.7mm ES82 that you could consider instead of using a Barlow for planetary viewing in which case the 11mm is possibly a better intermediate choice.

[yanello]

3 hours ago, Ricochet said:

Performance wise I am not aware of any major variance in the ES82 line and so it is just a case of choosing the focal length that suits you best. In an XT8 and comparing with the default eyepieces to try to give you a comparison:

10mm Plossl: Mag=120x, TFoV=0.42, Exit Pupil=1.67
11mm: Mag=109x, TFoV=0.75, Exit Pupil=1.83
14mm: Mag=86x, TFoV=0.96, Exit Pupil=2.33
28mm Deepsky: Mag=43x, TFoV=1.31 Exit Pupil=4.67

Magnification is pretty self explanatory, TFoV is the amount of sky you can see in degrees, and for exit pupil a bigger number is brighter and a smaller number dimmer.

Assuming you were to choose a 2X barlow then the 14mm would give you a TFoV of 0.48 which is slightly bigger than that of the 10mm Plossl than you're currently struggling with while the 11mm would give a smaller TFoV than your Plossl and a magnification that could be too much for your atmosphere a lot of the time if it is anything like we have in the UK (but it could be fine). Personally I would probably play it safe and go with the 14 if it is going to be barlowed.  Alternatively, there is a 6.7mm ES82 that you could consider instead of using a Barlow for planetary viewing in which case the 11mm is possibly a better intermediate choice.

I like the tfov with the 14,  and the ability to barlow it to 7mm. At 14, i suppose i can use it for upper range of some dso work. At 7, barlowed, its powerful for planets, but not too powerful to conflict with moderate atmosphere issues. Yet, when i get the 14, i would then be tempted to get a es 4. whatever. Then im pushing the max for the scope barlowed. Its nice to try. And all this, the 14 and 4., for the cost of a one delos, which i like as well. That 13 mm ethos seems like the best for my interests of scanning the sky, and i could barlow it for planets. 

So, should i just suffer rhe cost ot the 13mm ethos or get the 14 and 4. Es 82? I will have to ponder it. For the ethos has a majesty factor of 8, while i suppose the es 82 has about a 4. Who would not want a majesty factor of 8? Pat

[John]

Not everyone likes 100 degree eyepieces or 82 degrees for that matter. There are quite a few who prefer 60-70 degrees and a bit longer eye relief.

Personally I am a "wide field junkie" but I know that they are not for everyone

 

[Ricochet]

2 hours ago, yanello said:

I like the tfov with the 14,  and the ability to barlow it to 7mm. At 14, i suppose i can use it for upper range of some dso work. At 7, barlowed, its powerful for planets, but not too powerful to conflict with moderate atmosphere issues. Yet, when i get the 14, i would then be tempted to get a es 4. whatever. Then im pushing the max for the scope barlowed. Its nice to try. And all this, the 14 and 4., for the cost of a one delos, which i like as well. That 13 mm ethos seems like the best for my interests of scanning the sky, and i could barlow it for planets. 

So, should i just suffer rhe cost ot the 13mm ethos or get the 14 and 4. Es 82? I will have to ponder it. For the ethos has a majesty factor of 8, while i suppose the es 82 has about a 4. Who would not want a majesty factor of 8? Pat

I've got a 68 degree 16mm that I use for some DSO so the 82 deg 14mm would certainly be fine. Of course not all DSO's look best with the same EP so I tend to find an object with my lowest power EP and then try the rest to see which one gives the best view.

I can't really comment on the Ethos having not owned one, but eyepiece cost rises a lot more quickly than the performance gains so if it is a case that the budget "forever" allows two ES or one TV I would go for the ES but if you're thinking that you might buy the ES now and upgrade both to TV as soon as your finances allow it then I would rather buy the one TV then spend money on EP's I don't plan on keeping. However, both are going to be massive improvements over the stock eyepieces that came with your scope.

[yanello]

1 hour ago, Ricochet said:

I've got a 68 degree 16mm that I use for some DSO so the 82 deg 14mm would certainly be fine. Of course not all DSO's look best with the same EP so I tend to find an object with my lowest power EP and then try the rest to see which one gives the best view.

I can't really comment on the Ethos having not owned one, but eyepiece cost rises a lot more quickly than the performance gains so if it is a case that the budget "forever" allows two ES or one TV I would go for the ES but if you're thinking that you might buy the ES now and upgrade both to TV as soon as your finances allow it then I would rather buy the one TV then spend money on EP's I don't plan on keeping. However, both are going to be massive improvements over the stock eyepieces that came with your scope.

Point taken. Not sure where I stand on it. I will have to think about it. I may be satisfied with the es, but go with a delos. Pat

[yanello]

3 hours ago, John said:

Not everyone likes 100 degree eyepieces or 82 degrees for that matter. There are quite a few who prefer 60-70 degrees and a bit longer eye relief.

Personally I am a "wide field junkie" but I know that they are not for everyone

 

I suspect that I would be satisfied with 70, 82, or 100. So, its just a finalist kind of thing now. Should it be the 70 delos, 82 es, or the coveted 100 ethos? Decide now I'd say delos or 82. So, I'm riding the fence. I'd like to get off of it! Maybe in a day or so. Pat 

[rwilkey]

19 hours ago, yanello said:

I suspect that I would be satisfied with 70, 82, or 100. So, its just a finalist kind of thing now. Should it be the 70 delos, 82 es, or the coveted 100 ethos? Decide now I'd say delos or 82. So, I'm riding the fence. I'd like to get off of it! Maybe in a day or so. Pat 

Hi Pat,

The ES82 series have fairly tight eye-relief if you want to get the full view, if you are a spectacle wearer these would not be so good, otherwise the Delos 70 degree will serve you better.  I am fairly happy with the ES82's, and just as a matter of interest going back to your earlier posts, the first ES82 I bought was the 14mm, followed by the 11mm, just thought I'd mention it, both very satisfying ep's.  I have never fancied a 100 degree, not sure I would like it to be honest, certainly it is out of my price range.  Also, if you are considering ES82, you might be interested to know I bought most of mine from the US when they weren't so common in the UK - from AgenaAstro - got great service from them, recommended!

[yanello]

30 minutes ago, rwilkey said:

Hi Pat,

The ES82 series have fairly tight eye-relief if you want to get the full view, if you are a spectacle wearer these would not be so good, otherwise the Delos 70 degree will serve you better.  I am fairly happy with the ES82's, and just as a matter of interest going back to your earlier posts, the first ES82 I bought was the 14mm, followed by the 11mm, just thought I'd mention it, both very satisfying ep's.  I have never fancied a 100 degree, not sure I would like it to be honest, certainly it is out of my price range.  Also, if you are considering ES82, you might be interested to know I bought most of mine from the US when they weren't so common in the UK - from AgenaAstro - got great service from them, recommended!

Im glad to here how good the 11 and 14 es have been to you, and about the eye relief. Because of the better eye relief design of the delos, i should just pay the premium price and get it. I do wear glasses and am 51 years old. Yet, with my 10mm plossl from orion that came with the xt8 , i thought the only things i did not like aboit it are one, the small fov, two the tiny hole to look through, and barlowing it just doesnt do much for me with saturn or jupitor. It only barlows well on the moon, but i do not prefer to study a litfle piece of the moon.

So, i wonder how could the es 82 be any worse than the 10mm possl? It has got to be as good or better? 

If i can get the delos 14 and the es 82 14 and 11 amazon prime, i should get all three to ck them out for two weeks od so. Then i should keep the delos or the es, but not both. 

 

I noticed thar Agenaastro sells the delos on amazon, and likely other brands. I do not see any eyepiece i want with amason prime. So, not sure how i will proceed. 

Good morning, pat

[yanello]

1 hour ago, yanello said:

Im glad to here how good the 11 and 14 es have been to you, and about the eye relief. Because of the better eye relief design of the delos, i should just pay the premium price and get it. I do wear glasses and am 51 years old. Yet, with my 10mm plossl from orion that came with the xt8 , i thought the only things i did not like aboit it are one, the small fov, two the tiny hole to look through, and barlowing it just doesnt do much for me with saturn or jupitor. It only barlows well on the moon, but i do not prefer to study a litfle piece of the moon.

So, i wonder how could the es 82 be any worse than the 10mm possl? It has got to be as good or better? 

If i can get the delos 14 and the es 82 14 and 11 amazon prime, i should get all three to ck them out for two weeks od so. Then i should keep the delos or the es, but not both. 

 

I noticed thar Agenaastro sells the delos on amazon, and likely other brands. I do not see any eyepiece i want with amason prime. So, not sure how i will proceed. 

Good morning, pat

Televue talks about the majesty factor. If I am going after the highest one, baring the 100 fov (too costly for me), then I suppose that the es 82 would be significantly greater in majesty than the delos 72 fov. The 82 would be 4.0 and the 72 3.2, so that's significant to me. The ethos is an 8 on the majesty factor.  

[John]

22 minutes ago, yanello said:

Televue talks about the majesty factor. If I am going after the highest one, baring the 100 fov (too costly for me), then I suppose that the es 82 would be significantly greater in majesty than the delos 72 fov. The 82 would be 4.0 and the 72 3.2, so that's significant to me. The ethos is an 8 on the majesty factor.  

I would not put too much on "the majesty factor" stuff. I've been a big Tele Vue fan for 2 decades now but even I thought that one a little over the top !

Sometimes an eyepiece with a smaller apparent field of view can seem very immersive to use because it has a large, accommodating eye lens and comfortable eye relief. The Delos, Pentax XW and Baader Morpheus seem to fall into this category. By immersive I mean that you become very engaged with the view and the eyepiece itself seems to "disappear".

I'm speaking as the owner of a number of Ethos eyepieces, a couple of Nagler's and a number of Pentax XW's but I'm trying to give you a balanced view, without hype

 

[yanello]

35 minutes ago, John said:

I would not put too much on "the majesty factor" stuff. I've been a big Tele Vue fan for 2 decades now but even I thought that one a little over the top !

Sometimes an eyepiece with a smaller apparent field of view can seem very immersive to use because it has a large, accommodating eye lens and comfortable eye relief. The Delos, Pentax XW and Baader Morpheus seem to fall into this category. By immersive I mean that you become very engaged with the view and the eyepiece itself seems to "disappear".

I'm speaking as the owner of a number of Ethos eyepieces, a couple of Nagler's and a number of Pentax XW's but I'm trying to give you a balanced view, without hype

 

Point taken. Thanks, Pat

[yanello]

Just purchased the ES 14mm 82, with Amazon Prime. If I don't like it, I can return it free of charge. Yet, I doubt I will be returning it. I have two expected uses for it. One, to use at 14mm and 7mm barlowed, for medium and high power viewing. Two, give it to my daughter for her 70mm refractor. If I do the latter, then delos 14 here I come. Or maybe 10 delos. Good evening, Pat

[rwilkey]

23 hours ago, yanello said:

Im glad to here how good the 11 and 14 es have been to you, and about the eye relief. Because of the better eye relief design of the delos, i should just pay the premium price and get it. I do wear glasses and am 51 years old. Yet, with my 10mm plossl from orion that came with the xt8 , i thought the only things i did not like aboit it are one, the small fov, two the tiny hole to look through, and barlowing it just doesnt do much for me with saturn or jupitor. It only barlows well on the moon, but i do not prefer to study a litfle piece of the moon.

So, i wonder how could the es 82 be any worse than the 10mm possl? It has got to be as good or better? 

If i can get the delos 14 and the es 82 14 and 11 amazon prime, i should get all three to ck them out for two weeks od so. Then i should keep the delos or the es, but not both. 

 

I noticed thar Agenaastro sells the delos on amazon, and likely other brands. I do not see any eyepiece i want with amason prime. So, not sure how i will proceed. 

Good morning, pat

Hi Pat,

If you can use the 10mm plossl you should be OK with the ES82's in my opinion.  I think it was Ebay that introduced me to AgenaAstro now I come to think of it.  Being able to try both Delos and ES82 would be good, I think the Delos will win, however, out of my price range.

Good luck!

[yanello]

1 hour ago, rwilkey said:

Hi Pat,

If you can use the 10mm plossl you should be OK with the ES82's in my opinion.  I think it was Ebay that introduced me to AgenaAstro now I come to think of it.  Being able to try both Delos and ES82 would be good, I think the Delos will win, however, out of my price range.

Good luck!

Good morning,

I agree that I can hobble along with the 14mm es 82, and still use my stock 10mm, and barlow both, if it works for the night. I have not seen the delos 14mm with prime on amazon, so I did not yet buy it to compare and keep or return.

If the es 82 is a home run, or triple for that matter, and good at barlowing, then I think I would want to try a delos at 10mm or so.

I appreciate your guidance and experience over the course of these past days.

Pat

 

 

[rwilkey]

Hi Pat,

I don't think you will be disappointed with the ES82, the quality of its engineering is just stunning!  Interesting comparison below:

 

[Charic]

My only 2" EP is the Skywatcher 32mm Panaview with its 70° afov,   I don't need a  wider option for my f/6 scope. This is a stunning eyepiece for my needs, good value too.

Other considerations when  buying 2" EP's, their extra  weight & size can affect the  scopes balance, if you use filters then you'll need  2"  filters,  and possibly  a 2"  Barlow, should you wish to go there, so you may have to buy  more than just a new EP.

And as already mentioned above, you can get just as wide a view from 1.25" Ep's.  You will most certainly find out if you go ahead and purchase a 2" eyepiece, if its the right way to go, but until then, you won't know. 

[YKSE]

51 minutes ago, rwilkey said:

Hi Pat,

I don't think you will be disappointed with the ES82, the quality of its engineering is just stunning!  Interesting comparison below:

 

Robin,

I think the X-ray picutres are about 100° 13mm Ethos and 14mm explore Scientic, not the 82° ES.

http://www.svenwienstein.de/HTML/es_14mm_ethos_13mm_English.html

[rwilkey]

Hi YKSE, yes, obviously you are correct, but I was just thinking that the 82 degree series would be on a par with the Naglers.  They certainly perform well.

[yanello]

Good evening, 

I bought the 14mm es 82, yet i dont prefer it. So, i am returning it. I think i need better eye relief and more power for planets. So i am considering a delos 10 ( but i have an orion plossl 10), a delos 8 or 6. Not sure which is best to start with. Pat

[Ricochet]

Did you try the 14mm in a 2x Barlow to emulate a 7mm? That would have helped to determine your seeing conditions a bit (even if it was only on one night). I would say the 150x (8mm) is the minimum you want for planets but in the UK 200x (6mm) is where you start finding atmospheric conditions might not allow it on certain nights so it really depends on your local conditions. Finding out what other local astronomers use is really your best bet.

[yanello]

1 hour ago, Ricochet said:

Did you try the 14mm in a 2x Barlow to emulate a 7mm? That would have helped to determine your seeing conditions a bit (even if it was only on one night). I would say the 150x (8mm) is the minimum you want for planets but in the UK 200x (6mm) is where you start finding atmospheric conditions might not allow it on certain nights so it really depends on your local conditions. Finding out what other local astronomers use is really your best bet.

Good evening, 

Thanks for your question. Yes, i tried it with my orion shorty barlow to 7mm. I did like the ep, we could see the increase in quality. So two things are driving me to try a delos, the eye relief i think i will need. Instead of a 14mm, i want to try to match or beat the views on my 10mm orion plossl. The 10mm is not bad, just not wide fov. 

Your point about local conditions is very smart. Saturday i missed a local star party because of storms. It would have been my first one, and maybe i would have gotten that local advice.

It could be the delos 8 could be good for two reasons. One, it beats my 10mm plossl in two ways, power and fov. I like this very much. Two, i can barlow it to 4mm. This might realistically work better , be more useful, than a 6 barlowed to 3 (400 mag). 

So, u got me thinking i should get am 8, not a 6. Pat