Toupcam

[Grierson]

I jokingly said in another thread that a degree in engineering is needed to safely mount a piggy back guide scope. Well having attempted to read the Toupcam manual I think I need a science degree! I wonder if anyone on the forum is using the FLO guiding bundle (Startravel 'scope plus Toupcam camera) and would care to share their experiences.   

[riklaunim]

What's your main imaging telescope, what's the problem?

[Grierson]

11 hours ago, riklaunim said:

What's your main imaging telescope, what's the problem?

Mine is probably a typical case of 'trying to run before being able to walk' but in answer to your question the main telescope is a Skywatcher Evostar 80ED. The problem is that having loaded the software that came with the camera I can not produce an image other that the image screen increasing in brightness as the camera is moved towards a light source.

The 107 pages of the typed manual have clearly been written for someone very much more expert than myself although oddly the first line explains how to start Windows.    

[Thalestris24]

3 hours ago, Grierson said:

Mine is probably a typical case of 'trying to run before being able to walk' but in answer to your question the main telescope is a Skywatcher Evostar 80ED. The problem is that having loaded the software that came with the camera I can not produce an image other that the image screen increasing in brightness as the camera is moved towards a light source.

The 107 pages of the typed manual have clearly been written for someone very much more expert than myself although oddly the first line explains how to start Windows.    

Hi

It sounds like you're not focussed. With the ST80 you need an extension tube (in place of the diagonal) in order to have the focus point in reach. Also, the toupcam is very sensitive so your exposure needs to be in the few milliseconds range if your trying to test during the day. Maybe even less than a millisec. Obviously at night it can be 2-3 secs  I find these things are easier to initially set up during the day.

Louise

[Grierson]

Thank you Louise for your advice. I have had a further experiment and by reducing the exposure time to 1m/sec I can indeed produce an image but focussing is critical and far from smooth. (I have read elsewhere that the rack and pinion employed in the ST80 leaves something to be desired) This is not helped by the fact that I am waiting for a  focus extension piece which was out of stock when the kit arrived. Currently the camera replaces the eyepiece in the diagonal!

I wonder if you have the software available as I am puzzled as to why it is necessary to set an exposure target. Having trawled the manual I am still no wiser. If you could find a moment to comment that would be appreciated. - John

[Thalestris24]

1 hour ago, Grierson said:

Thank you Louise for your advice. I have had a further experiment and by reducing the exposure time to 1m/sec I can indeed produce an image but focussing is critical and far from smooth. (I have read elsewhere that the rack and pinion employed in the ST80 leaves something to be desired) This is not helped by the fact that I am waiting for a  focus extension piece which was out of stock when the kit arrived. Currently the camera replaces the eyepiece in the diagonal!

I wonder if you have the software available as I am puzzled as to why it is necessary to set an exposure target. Having trawled the manual I am still no wiser. If you could find a moment to comment that would be appreciated. - John

Hi

I don't actually have a toupcam but do have a qhy5l-ii mono and a gpcam, both of which are pretty much the same. I'm not sure what you mean by 'software' - I presume you got some capture software with the toupcam? I use phd2 guiding software but that doesn't let you go down to msec for daytime checking. However, I have qhy capture software which allows setting very short exposures so that's what I use for daytime setup of the qhy camera. Yes, you need to set a suitable exposure time when guiding - usually around 2-3 secs. Yes, focus is critical. The Startravel 80 focus mechanism can be tweaked (see astronomyshed video on YouTube) and you can even add a SW autofocusser

Good luck!

Louise

ps with an 80mm imaging scope I would actually recommend using a lightweight 150mm finder/guider rather than a relatively heavy ST80

[Grierson]

Thanks once again. Back in 2014 you were looking for a guide scope. May I ask which one you decided on. Lightweight finder/guider perhaps?? -John

[Thalestris24]

3 hours ago, Grierson said:

Thanks once again. Back in 2014 you were looking for a guide scope. May I ask which one you decided on. Lightweight finder/guider perhaps?? -John

Hi

I find a 50mm guidescope or finderguider works best for my imaging focal lengths - from 200mm to 650mm. I have a SW finder guider and also one of these. The latter is better imho. I've also tried an st80 but that's relatively heavy. Also tried a 60/240mm Altair Astro guidescope but have not found it so good for guiding.

Louise

[alacant]

Hi. I have a zwo120 on a 400mm f5, I think similar to yours. A quarter of a turn either side of focus and you see nothing. Almost impossible to test during daylight; even on the fastest exposure it overexposes. Focus by pointing at a bright star or the moon. HTH

[Thalestris24]

26 minutes ago, alacant said:

Hi. I have a zwo120 on a 400mm f5, I think similar to yours. A quarter of a turn either side of focus and you see nothing. Almost impossible to test during daylight; even on the fastest exposure it overexposes. Focus by pointing at a bright star or the moon. HTH

Hi

What's the shortest exposure your software allows? The qhyccd EZPlanetary software allows down to microseconds  I think the exposure range of the mono MT9M034 sensor is 20usec-1800sec. A way around the daytime sensitivity is to put a suitable filter in front. In the past I've used a near infra-red camera filter. The MT9M034 has sensitivity well in to the infra red.

Louise

[alacant]

1 hour ago, Thalestris24 said:

What's the shortest exposure your software allows?

Hi. PHD2 so 0.01s I think. I only use it for guiding. JTOL the OP may as I, come up against this without realising. HTH-

[Thalestris24]

5 minutes ago, alacant said:

Hi. PHD2 so 0.01s I think. I only use it for guiding. JTOL the OP may as I, come up against this without realising. HTH-

Hi

The zwo quotes an exposure range of 64µs-1000s even though it's the same sensor as the qhy5l-ii mono... Still, you should have sharpcap and firecapture with it but you can download them for free anyway. I'm not actually familiar with sharpcap or firecapture but I imagine they'll allow you to set short exposures.

Louise

[alacant]

Yes, thanks. I was only planning on using PHD2 so I just took whatever that app gave me. I realise that that will be optimised for dim guidestars. I'm not sure if the other apps would be of any use for DS stuff, but I take your point: to be able to use the full specifications of the camera, I would need an app other than PHD to drive it.

[Thalestris24]

28 minutes ago, alacant said:

Yes, thanks. I was only planning on using PHD2 so I just took whatever that app gave me. I realise that that will be optimised for dim guidestars. I'm not sure if the other apps would be of any use for DS stuff, but I take your point: to be able to use the full specifications of the camera, I would need an app other than PHD to drive it.

Hi

The other apps I was just suggesting for possible (daytime)  testing purposes  They're free so why not try them?

Louise

[wornish]

On 29 May 2016 at 19:18, Grierson said:

I jokingly said in another thread that a degree in engineering is needed to safely mount a piggy back guide scope. Well having attempted to read the Toupcam manual I think I need a science degree! I wonder if anyone on the forum is using the FLO guiding bundle (Startravel 'scope plus Toupcam camera) and would care to share their experiences.   

I am not having much luck in getting the FLO package to work consistently.

Did you get yours working eventually?

[Grierson]

Hi Dave, the answer is 'yes' and 'no' with more emphsis on the 'no'. I still had concerns about the mechanical strength of the mounting of the two scopes, probably unreasonably so. In addition, and having struggled with the supplied software but also having looked at Push Here Dummy 2 and found it very easy to use I opted for 1. to use PHD and 2. to attach the camera to the finder scope. (Using an adapter from Modern Astonomy Ltd) The resulting setup works well, or at least it does in my eyes, bearing in mind that I am a total novice when it comes to imaging. I shall hang on to the 80T since it is of course a nicely portable 'scope and will come in handy at some future date.     

[wornish]

14 hours ago, Grierson said:

Hi Dave, the answer is 'yes' and 'no' with more emphsis on the 'no'. I still had concerns about the mechanical strength of the mounting of the two scopes, probably unreasonably so. In addition, and having struggled with the supplied software but also having looked at Push Here Dummy 2 and found it very easy to use I opted for 1. to use PHD and 2. to attach the camera to the finder scope. (Using an adapter from Modern Astonomy Ltd) The resulting setup works well, or at least it does in my eyes, bearing in mind that I am a total novice when it comes to imaging. I shall hang on to the 80T since it is of course a nicely portable 'scope and will come in handy at some future date.     

 

Looks like a great set up.  How is everything actually wired.  From the picture I can see the ST4 cable from the camera but where are you connecting it to ?  

Also what camera and mount do you have selected in PHD2 ?   

I have thought about getting the Modern Astronomy adapter but for now I am still trying to get the ST80 to work.

[Grierson]

Hi,

I fitted dual motors ( https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/enhanced-dual-axis-dc-motor-drives-for-eq-5.html ) to the mount (although the DEC motor is missing from the photo). The handset controller has an ST4 port which takes the guiding control signals.

I run everything form a Lenovo 11" Notebook purchased second hand from my local John Lewis here in York. They appear to have had a lot returned but mine has not let me down yet!! It also benifits from a lengthy battery life and sits on a little table below the 'scope.

If you have loaded the Toupcam software on to your computer together with the PHD2 software open PHD2 and click on 'Connect Equiment' and you will be able to select 'ASCOM Toupcam Driver' from the Camera drop down list and 'On Camera' from the Mount dropdown list. 

John

 

 

[Dbswales]

Hi, I bought the kit from FLO and find everything to be working ok. Granted, being a novice at guiding I don't suppose any setup would have been that simple but I've persevered and the last outing proved to be simpler after the multitude of trial and errors that took place. 

ill take a pic of my setup later but I don't use the ST4 cable and use the pulse guiding parameter within  Eqmod.

Ive also ditched the hand controller preferring to us a game pad controller. I've enough cables as it is! ?

[wornish]

8 hours ago, Grierson said:

Hi,

I fitted dual motors ( https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/enhanced-dual-axis-dc-motor-drives-for-eq-5.html ) to the mount (although the DEC motor is missing from the photo). The handset controller has an ST4 port which takes the guiding control signals.

I run everything form a Lenovo 11" Notebook purchased second hand from my local John Lewis here in York. They appear to have had a lot returned but mine has not let me down yet!! It also benifits from a lengthy battery life and sits on a little table below the 'scope.

If you have loaded the Toupcam software on to your computer together with the PHD2 software open PHD2 and click on 'Connect Equiment' and you will be able to select 'ASCOM Toupcam Driver' from the Camera drop down list and 'On Camera' from the Mount dropdown list. 

John

You are a star !!!  

Thanks for sharing your settings.    I had not seen the On-Camera option on the PHD2 "Connect Equipment"  Mount drop down menu !    

I had been using the ToupCam (Ascom) setting and was having all sorts of issues.

I just tried it indoors and I can now manually guide the scope from PHD2 so all is set to go out next clear night.  I discovered that if you are using Synscan you can select show position from the Utility menu and it displays the very small RA or DEC movements the mount makes when receiving info from PHD2 so you can check everything is working before it gets dark!   

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[wornish]

2 hours ago, Dbswales said:

Hi, I bought the kit from FLO and find everything to be working ok. Granted, being a novice at guiding I don't suppose any setup would have been that simple but I've persevered and the last outing proved to be simpler after the multitude of trial and errors that took place. 

ill take a pic of my setup later but I don't use the ST4 cable and use the pulse guiding parameter within  Eqmod.

Ive also ditched the hand controller preferring to us a game pad controller. I've enough cables as it is! ?

It seems there are lots of different ways to use the camera.

Could you share your cable connections and also your PHD2 "connected equipment" drop down settings assuming you are using PHD2 and EQMOD