Anyone Use Atlas™ 10 EQ Equatorial Reflector Telescope for AP

[TangoCharlie]

Greetings!  Has anyone have experience with this model telescope?  Especially in the area of using it for Astrophotography.

Wondering about the stability of the mount for AP.  Thanks!   Obviously would need ore lenses, barlow, and photographic equipment.

Light gathering ability and cost are prime factors in evaluating this for viewing and AP.

Here is a link about it.    Thanks!

TC

http://www.company7.com/orion/telescopes/orion10f4.9atlas.html

[swamp thing]

Hi TC

Do you have this in mind for some kind of permanent set up in an observatory. TBH a 10" newt on a german equatorial mount is a PITA to set up every single time you wish to observe or image if not. 
 

[John]

I think the Atlas is known as the EQ6 on this side of the pond. Up to the 10" scope for visual and I guess some imaging but as Steve says it's a big old set up if you have to move it around, put it up and take it to bits each time you use it.

 

[TangoCharlie]

Steve and John,

Thanks for the reply.  I may only have one purchase of a scope to make and I did not want to omit doing AP in the future possibly.  As I have shared with others, retirement in looming so I wanted to get a scope with light gathering ability but also have the option of doing AP.  Hard to not break the bank, get light gathering power, be portable, and possibly do AP with a decent mount.  I was looking at a Open Truss 12 inch Dobsonian but then cannot do AP with that.  Even in FL I have to go outside our park to get away from light pollution.  Suggestions?

TC

[Waldemar]

Hi TC,

Being of your age group, I can tell you if you do not have a permanent set-up, hauling around with a big scope like that will steel a lot of precious observing time, just because it is such a drag everytime you want to play...
It will not only limit your quality time, but also your pleasure and before long you don't want to take the effort anymore and your scope will start gathering dust... 

Especially if you are thinking about AP, which is the better option at our age because of deminishing eye sight, a big scope like that is not an advantage... It works like a sail, so you need to have a shielded place, especcialy for AP

Maybe there will be some challenges with your mount, but nothing that can't be solved. The scope is another story... I would be thinking more in the direction of a 130 Newton or an ED80 refractor. Both very well capable of AP, nice to look through and manageable... 
The red flag I put out here is just to spare you frustration and money...

Best regards, and make a wise decission!

Waldemar

[TangoCharlie]

Waldemar,

Thanks for sharing your wisdom.  I will look at these models as well as consider perhaps an 8 inch.  The consensus has been what you have shared.

Thanks again!

 

TC

[TangoCharlie]

I am looking at the following from Orion.   Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G Reflector Telescope with GoTo Controller .

TC

[steppenwolf]

From what I can see from your first links, this mount is the 'US' version of an older style of mount that does not have GoTo functionality. I have used the older 'UK' version of this mount known as a Sky-Watcher EQ6 and I also had the 10" Newtonian. I used it for both observing and imaging.

Setting up aside (that's been covered above), there are a couple of points when considering this set-up for imaging deep sky objects:-

1. the mount has drive motors for the RA and DEC axes but these and their basic hand-controller use an older style of controller board which does not compare favourably with the newer GoTo system known as 'SynScan' when it comes to tracking accuracy.

2. the long exposures required for deep sky imaging require autoguiding and the basic controller supplied with this mount does not allow guiding without DIY modification. I have done this modification and it did improve tracking but was nowhere near as good as the tracking available with the SynScan system.

If deep sky imaging is very much on your agenda, I would look elsewhere with regard to the mount (this one for example)

I have also used this GoTo version of the mount with both the 10" and the 8" Newtonian reflectors. The 8" is certainly very much more manageable and if I am grabbing one of my Newtonians for imaging, I tend to reach for the 8" over the 10" purely for manageability!

[Waldemar]

TC, another thing is : what kind of AP are you thinking about? Solar system or DSO, want to use a DSLR, webcam or dedicated CCD?

For the last ones you will need a computer. More equipment, but also far more possibilities with planetarium programms like Stellarium and guiding will be no problem. More camera choices as well....

The Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G  looks appealing... Be aware that a Newtonian on an equatorial mount needs a three way balancing procedure. So not only balancing in DEC and RA, but also radial balancing of the scope. That will make  guiding a lot less stressful for your mount.

And remember TC:  fun is the most important thing on our age !!!

Regards,

Waldemar

[TangoCharlie]

Steve and Waldemar,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my inquiries in detail.  It truly is an education to get into the hobby of astronomy.

I have learned so much and there is more to learn.  This is a novice question for sure.  Do the counterweight amounts used for the

telescope to counter the weight of the scope and anything attached to the scope?  In essence scope 16 + two weights at say 11 each = 22 lbs?  16 + 22 = payload wt. of 38?

If it is more complicated I can read up on it and not torture you to type a composition.  I have gathered that when the manufacturer says payload

of 40 lbs that really we should half that in reality if considering imaging and smooth operation.  But if I had a 16 lb scope plus 22 lbs of weights that would exceed half which is 20 lbs.

Am I thinking right or do you omit the counterweights for the payload?  Thanks so much.

TC alias Tom

Brooksville, FL

[TangoCharlie]

Waldemar and Steve,

Just discussing with you back and forth I realize how critical the type and operation of the mount must be to do imaging.  I would be interested in planetary as well as DSOs such as galaxies and nebula.  What does that bring to the equation of your thinking?  I would probably lean toward the CCD versus DSLR route with photography- but again this is a novice telling you that.  I have read a little about imaging and the need for things such as stacking, Photo-Shop, a CCD camera, and some other types of software to create the final project.  Quite an ordeal.  Since I will not have alot of capital do  you recommend the DSLR route such as a Canon Rebel or the like?  Thank you for helping to educate me.  Steve, I have not forgotten the book you authored either.  

Tom  - TC

[Waldemar]

Hi Tom, thank you for your trust!

Yes, the mount is paramount (pun intended)... that is where most of your money should go...

The counterweights are normally left out of the equation, so it is the total equipment weight that counts. Keep in mind that for PA 50% of the payload is max.
The main advantages of a dedicated CCD camera over a DSLR is the regulated TEC cooling and the bit depth. DSLRs have a 12-14 bit greyscale, while CCD have 16 bit depth. That means that with a CCD you can get a lot more out of your images then with a DSLR.
12 bit depth is 4096 shades of grey :-) ; 14 bit is 16384 shades, while 16 bit is 65536 shades of any colour. Basically this tells you the dynamic range of a CCD far exceeds the range of any DSLR.
The weight of DSLRs is another issue to consider, as is the backfocus distance (44mm for a canon + T-ring and mounting= at least 56 mm) Not all scopes, especially Newtonians have that kind of backfocus range.

For solar system imaging you can use a cheap webcam and a lot of free programms are available for that purpose.
If you want to do both, DSOs as well as planetary, then choose your scope to be fast; a short focal length (low f numbers). You can always use barlow lenses to get the longer focal length you need for planetary. The other way is far more expensive and very restricted.

Try to see it as fun, Tom... although I agree sometimes it feels like an ordeal. It is a never ending journey and quite an adventure, that is for sure! But you will have so much fun and be in awe so many times...

Regards,

Waldemar

[TangoCharlie]

Waldemar,  thanks for the informative reply!  Especially about the depth difference in AP with DSLR versus CCD.  Steve has a book on this that perhaps I can acquire for my birthday via my kids.  I am enjoying what I am learning about the science and hobby of Astronomy.  Not a physicist type so there is a learning curve with some of it- but I am still enjoying what I have gleaned so far.  Your message content just added to that knowledge base- I usually copy these into different topical files.  I did not realize the significant difference in photo detail.  I am conscious of the weight, time, and effort to set up aspects you shared.  So I am looking at an 8 inch.  

Tom

[TangoCharlie]

Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G Reflector Telescope with GoTo Controller  is the model I am looking at for imaging.  It will come down to economics too so I may have to do just visual - too early to tell.  But if just visual I am looking at the following to be mindful of setup but get that light gathering size - 10 “ Sky Watcher Go To Collapsible Dobsonian Telescope with Syncscan.  Love to have both but we will have to see how the last five years goes.  But I still want to understand the mechanics of CCD AP.  Thanks for sharing!

 

TOM

[Waldemar]

Hi Tom,

I think the Orion set-up you mentioned will give you many hours of pleasure and leaves room for both visual and AP. On top of that it is not too heavy to haul around. It is definitely not a 'Grab & Go' set though...

Steve's book "make every photon count" is absolutely a 'must read'.  Steve gives you loads of information and insight in the techniques as well as the pittfalls of PA.
You don't need to be a physicist, but some ineterest in multiple technical disciplines will come in handy.
 In the beginning the learning curve will be steep and in fact it is a never ending story 

PA with a Dobson system is not easy if not impossible, so there is a choice to be made here... leave the door open to PA and go for the Orion, or keep some money in your pocket, go for visual and choose the Dobson.

Off topic, but do I understand it right to think you are still five years from retirement? 

 

BR

Waldemar

[TangoCharlie]

Waldemar,

Yes - I am going to be 62 this year - though I still feel in my 50's.  So I want to work 5-8 years more.  I always wanted to do astronomy but could not with us raising three kids and putting them through college.  So now I am at a point to pursue this hobby of astronomy.  Have to wait on spending though since I was a college administrator of a private college which closed last fall.  So job hunting right now which is very odd at this point in life.  What about you?  Thanks regarding the insights on visual and imaging telescopes.  I will plan on ordering Steve's book later this year.  Very thankful for this forum and the advise gotten from more experienced astronomers!  Thanks!

Tom

[Waldemar]

Hi Tom,

I just got 67 today  hahaha. So I am retired already, at last... thank goodness! Interested in astronomy since the early eighties, bought my first scope (C-8) late/mid eighties. Now finally I have some time to learn a bit more.
Since those days I have had no money for the pub or partying, so be warned!!! I am thinking about starting an outreach programm for kids. If they get interested in this hobby, they are hooked and will have no time or money for drugs either.

Like I said before: take your time, get as much info as you can, read, read and read. Think aboout refractors too. Go visit your local astronomy club, get a membership, attend their meetings and ask whatever you can think of. Most of the time they have some scopes to loan, so you can try some different ones, before you make a decission to buy one yourself. There is a lot to learn on this great forum as well. This really is a neverending story... Try to get your wife interested as well. First of all because it is great if you can share this hobby and second because being the treasurer, you need het consent for purchases which will be a lot easier if she recognizes the need 

If you think I can help you with anything, feel free to pm me.

Waldemar

[Waldemar]

Sorry this turned into a kind of private conversation, people...

[TangoCharlie]

Thanks Waldemar,

I will keep my inquiries that are specific to you on a separate message.  Anything benefits others I will post here.  

You gave great advice!

TC

[Waldemar]

I forgot to mention this Tom:  

Check it out. It is amazing what you can accomplish with such a small telescope. 

Waldemar

[TangoCharlie]

Waldemar,

So this is like a Maksutov Cassegrain telescope with 130 mm aperture?  What are the pros and cons to these?  Focal Ratio more like 10 or 11?  So it would not take as expensive a mount as the bigger newtonians like the 8.  You have sparked my interest so I want to learn more since I have had a few others mention a 130.  Why pick that over my 8 inch newtonian?  Cost I guess is one too.  I appreciate insights since this is something I have not considered.  And it looks like there are variations so which type of 130 are we talking about?  THanks!

 

Tom

[Waldemar]

This is not a mak, but a Newtonian with a focal ratio of f5, made for AP but can also be used for visual.  I mentioned these, because so many people seem to get more then nice results with it, while it has only a relative small aperture .
As any other telescope it is not all round, but certainly worth looking at. Any newtonian or SCT needs to be collimated every once in a while, which maybe a p.i.t.a., especially if you want to use as a travelling scope.

So... do not forget to have a look at an ED 80 for example... choices, choices...

Personally I favor a refractor, because it has more possibilities i.m.h.o. But it is all up to you. Again: read as much as you can before making a decission., so you get the best out of your money...

Waldemar

 

[TangoCharlie]

Waldemar,  so what are the issues with the Astrographs which look shorter but faster f 3.9?  See attached as example.

What problems are connected with this type of telescope such as coma etc?

Thanks!

 

TC

[Waldemar]

I cannot open the file Tom...
Which telescope do you mean?

 

[TangoCharlie]

Waldemar,  so what are the issues with the Astrographs which look shorter but faster f 3.9?  See attached as example.

What problems are connected with this type of telescope such as coma etc?

Thanks!

 

TC