Atik 414EX to ED80

[Marky1973]

Okay, this is a question that has been asked a lot, and I have been reading lots of posts and getting myself confused. I am going to get on to FLO tomorrow to help figure out what I need (and not sound like a complete idiot), but it sounds like I can't just plonk my soon to arrive Atik into my focuser and expect it all to work.

So I have

ED80  >  0.85x Reducer  >  Filter Wheel (20mm) > Atik 414EX

I believe I need 55-57mm distance between the reducer and the senor on the Atik, but I am not quite sure what point I measure from the reducer. Is it the "end" of the item, or from the glass?

So How can I get this connected up. I can do it with some bits I have, but it is about 13cm long and probably not going to work.

In addition to the above I have the 

ED80 Diagonal

Skywatcher M48 T-ring adapter

FLO nosepiece adapter for reducer.

I'm having trouble picturing it all....

Cheers

Mark

 

 

[carastro]

The Atik should screw onto the filterwheel, and then the focal reducer on the other side of the filterwheel which also acts as the nosepiece.  I've always been told the spacing is from the sensor to the end of the FR which is what I always measure and with the Atik camera and FW and my WO FR this is about the right spacing.  

However if you have got one of those Skywatcher reducers then I can't advise as I have never used one.  

Carole 

 

[Marky1973]

Thanks Carole

Yeah, so there are two adapters on the filter wheel - one nosepiece as you say, and one eyepiece holder with the thumbscrews for the camera (with nosepiece) I guess I can just attached the camera to the filter without the eyepiece holder. 

Although, in my head, there is some confusion about how I will know that the Atik sensor finishes up at the right orientation to the telescope....but that is more to do with my difficulty visualising this... i do find I usually need to have the bits in front of my to help it make more sense!

I guess, what I need, is something to bridge the gap between the filter wheel and the reducer... starting to make more sense!

[carastro]

Yes, that's right take the eyepiece thing off and screw the Atik directly to the FW.  Yes I always have trouble finding which way up the sensor is too.  If it matters then I put a piece of masking tape on the camera and mark the top.  These days though since I am using an electronic filterwheel which sticks out rather a lot I am more concerned with turning the filterwheel into a position that it won't clash with the pier.  

On reflection, I think I add a little tiny bit of spacing between the FW and the FR to make the right spacing.

Carole 

 

[brantuk]

Don't forget to take the camera "back focus" into consideration - it will come in the technical diagram with your camera - it's 13mm for the 414EX see tech specs here:

http://www.iankingimaging.com/show_products.php?category=112

Also on Atik website for all cameras here:

http://3ainmfntxe31vi9qd1pxgpd1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Atik-Specification-Tables.pdf

Hth

If you want to be dead finicky and take filter size into account it's actually 13mm + or - 0.5mm

[Skipper Billy]

This might help you

read the whole thread!

[Marky1973]

6 hours ago, Skipper Billy said:

This might help you

read the whole thread!

Thanks Skipper! That's the one thread that I didn't stumble across in my blind searching for inspiration! Makes a lot more sense now....I think....

So, with 12mm back focus in the Camera, plus 20mm for the Filter wheel, I'll have 32mm from the sensor to the front side of the wheel, leaving me needing 23mm between the wheel and Reducer.

If I am talking sense, then I am guessing I can forget the T-rings I have and get a Baader 29 Varilock which will allow me to adjust between 20 and 29mm....obviously adjusting to 23 will give me the required 55mm, with a bit of room for fine tuning.

I'll get in touch with FLO later this morning and double-check and see if they can slip on into my parcel..... obviously when I have paid for it.

Thanks again for the link Skipper, that really helps.

 

[carastro]

But that link does not allow for a filterwheel which with a varilock might make the distance too much, check before you spend.

Carole 

 

[carastro]

I don't know if this photo helps, but this is my Atik314 attached directly to the EFW, and then there is a little bit of spacing between the EFW and the WO focal reducer.

Carole 

 

[Marky1973]

Always Carole! :-)

I thought it did leave enough - 12 for Atik, 20 for FW and then the varilock to make up the space....

However, what I wasn't thinking about was the fact that I need to convert the 48mm thread on the reducer to a T-Thread!

So have spoken with Martin (who must be banging his head against his desk by now) and we have come up with the FLO 48mm to T-Thread adapter (10mm) Baader 12-16 extension, Filter Wheel (20mm) and Camera (13mm).

 

So from the reducer, 10mm + 12mm + 20mm + 13MM = 55mm

I think...

 

:-)

[Marky1973]

Just now, carastro said:

I don't know if this photo helps, but this is my Atik314 attached directly to the EFW, and then there is a little bit of spacing between the EFW and the WO focal reducer.

Carole 

 

Yes, thanks Carole....I'm getting my head around it all!

:-)

I shall no spend the weekend hopping from one foot to the other next to the letter box!

[carastro]

Yes threads are a right PITA.  I never know which thread I have  so I normally end up going to Bern's house which is driving distance from me and take all the bits I need to join together and say "I need to join this bit to this bit" and "this is the spacing I need" and he sells me what I need.

I have a box full of spacers now all with different threads!!!

Carole 

[Marky1973]

Once I have what I need it all seems to make perfect sense - there are just too many variations when you start looking it all gets very confusing, very quickly... I need someone like Bern... :-)

I just hope that there is a bit of flexibility in the whole thing and that 1mm either way won't be the end of the world?

[carastro]

If you need to get a Spacer then Bern sold me a Baader variable spacer which can be made varying distances.  Difficult to describe, but it's not as chunky and wide as the one shown above.  It's only about 1.2cm wide and will give varying space size 1.2cm and less. 

Something like this, but the one I have is narrower.  The ring in the middle rotates around the thread and you can lock it into postion giving you varying spacing.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/baader-t2-extension-12-16mm.html

I have a vague recollection of also needing a small adapter ring to convert the thread, but it was very thin.  I tend to leave it all set up and not move it, which is why I am a bit vague now.

Carole 

[ollypenrice]

Farthings, sheckles, groats, furlongs, rods and perches, fathoms, leagues, hectaires, nautical miles, UNC, AF, Whitworth, metric... Why does astronomy have to be the last redoubt of EVERY antiquated, non-standard, unobtainable and unfathomable dimension ever invented???

Olly

[Marky1973]

20 minutes ago, carastro said:

Yes threads are a right PITA.  I never know which thread I have  so I normally end up going to Bern's house which is driving distance from me and take all the bits I need to join together and say "I need to join this bit to this bit" and "this is the spacing I need" and he sells me what I need.

I have a box full of spacers now all with different threads!!!

Carole 

Fingers crossed I have everything I need on order... but if you see any adapters go up for sale early next week, you know who will be selling them! ;-)

[Marky1973]

5 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Farthings, sheckles, groats, furlongs, rods and perches, fathoms, leagues, hectaires, nautical miles, UNC, AF, Whitworth, metric... Why does astronomy have to be the last redoubt of EVERY antiquated, non-standard, unobtainable and unfathomable dimension ever invented???

Olly

When I have to fix a shelf, or cupboard door at home... or find a bolt to hold somethingy or other to a doohickey, I can grab my selection of screws/nails/nuts and bolts (and I have a WIDE selection) and just fix that item... when I want to mount my DSLR onto a dovetail WITH ONE BOLT, have I got the right one? Have I 'eck as like!!!

[Skipper Billy]

13 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Farthings, sheckles, groats, furlongs, rods and perches, fathoms, leagues, hectaires, nautical miles, UNC, AF, Whitworth, metric... Why does astronomy have to be the last redoubt of EVERY antiquated, non-standard, unobtainable and unfathomable dimension ever invented???

Olly

I was thinking the same the other day when I was sailing my 46 foot boat with a draft of 2 meters about 2 cables off the land in about 4 fathoms of water when I noticed a vibration probably caused by the 38mm anode on the inch and a quarter shaft held on with BA screws! Not to worry I was making 7 knots against a tide of 2nm/h with a windspeed of 25 mph !!!

[Marky1973]

9 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

I was thinking the same the other day when I was sailing my 46 foot boat with a draft of 2 meters about 2 cables off the land in about 4 fathoms of water when I noticed a vibration probably caused by the 38mm anode on the inch and a quarter shaft held on with BA screws! Not to worry I was making 7 knots against a tide of 2nm/h with a windspeed of 25 mph !!!

I'm so glad that WASN'T an attempt to help me with the camera spacings!

[MattJenko]

Here is my 414ex and ED80/reducer setup:

 

The reducer screws into stock focuser, I then use the FLO M48/T2 adaptor which adds 10mm, then SX filter wheel (29mm), then 414 (13mm) for a total of ~52mm. I have some delrin spacers inbetween each connection to help get things exact and to also try and prevent thread locks.

[Marky1973]

Thanks Matt, helpful to see!

Spacers and boot polish might be some additional purchases I need having looked at some other threads!

[ollypenrice]

Although it won't matter with this chip it can be important to have the FW flush up to the camera to avoid vignetting on larger chips.

Olly

[Marky1973]

I think that is the plan.....then all I'll have to do is get something framed on the chip!