Winterizing EAA

[aparker]

When I started out doing this sub-hobby of ours, I had a pretty basic setup: I put my C8 on its mount and tripod, set it out on my little backyard balcony, stuck a Lodestar into a 1.25" adapter on the back, screwed in an el-cheapo GSO 0.5X reducer, set up a card table on the balcony to sit at with my laptop, loaded up LodestarLive, and voila: EAA.   I was hooked from night one, but this setup cried out for improvement.  The first thing I did was to build a "pier" of sorts that clamps to the balcony cornerpost.  This has allowed me to drift-align the mount, carefully scribe the setup position, and now I start out every night adequately (if not flawlessly) polar aligned.  I've written about that exercise here before.

With that accomplished, I turned to the process of getting the telescope operator out of the cold and back indoors.  This was critical to happy winter observing (I am happy to do visual outside at -5F with my Dob, but sitting at the computer at that temperature is just a non-starter).  The steps to achieve this took place over time, but I'll just list them here:

1. CAREFULLY disassemble the C8 (after lots of reading about how to do it on the web), remove all of the gloppy red factory grease from the mirror sled and baffle tube, and judiciously re-lubricate with SuperLube.  This is critical to being able to focus at below about +15F.  Turns out it was not hard to do, either.

2. Get a Starlight Xpress filterwheel.  I have this set up with blank, LP, and narrowband filters.  I've done a bit of messing around with the narrowband filters, especially Ha, but the biggest motivator is being able to switch to the blank filter to re-shoot darks at will from inside.  No more going out, climbing a ladder, putting a black trashbag over the scope, coming back in, shooting darks, going back out, climbing ladder, removing bag...  You can imagine how much nicer it is to do this via remote control.  I now change exposure length more often, and don't curse if I have to re-start SLL and shoot new darks.  For now I am controlling the filterwheel using Nebulosity, but look forward to SLL v3, which will apparently support this.

3. Get a long telephone extension cord.  Yes, these still exist (on eBay, of course).  It allows me to bring the CGEM handset inside to my desk.  I know that there should be a way to control the mount directly through SkySafari, but after one brief unsuccessful try at this I have back-burnered it for now.  I would still need the handset to do the initial mount alignment anyway, so it's no big deal to use it to direct the mount while observing.  When I (someday) have an actual observatory where I can leave mount/scope set up al the time, I will figure out the computer control of the mount piece.  Hopefully by getting a Software Bisque mount .

4. Get a Microtouch motorized focuser.  I already had the Feathertouch focuser, so I just needed the motor and control box.  It is amazing how much easier fine focus is when you don't have to tweak the knob by hand and wait for the scope to settle each time before deciding if you've improved things.  I also downloaded a piece of Mac freeware by Craig Stark that is supposed to be able to control this unit, but my one attempt to use it failed as I could not get it to see the Microtouch controller.  I suspect it may be out of sync with an update to the Microtouch software.  It is on my list to get on the Yahoo Nebulosity group and see if anyone has ideas on this and/or get Craig's attention to see if it can be updated.  For now I'm running it off an old PC laptop I have using the software that came with it.  This means I have two USB cables and the phone cord going out to the scope.  More on cables later.

5. Get an Optec focal reducer.  I got tired of the coma and vignetting produced by my $25 GSO reducer, and ordered a (much spendier) 0.62X NextGen reducer from Optec.  This is not actually part of the winterizing campaign, obviously, but it happened at the same time so documenting it here.  If it turns out to be clear tonight I can get some captures to demo the effect of the Optec.  I've had a bit of an issue with spacing; the spacing that Optec told me to use put me at 1420 mm F (0.7x), and adding 12.5 mm of T-extender got me to 1340mm  (0.66x), compared to the 1260 mm it should produce.  I have yet to order a longer extender to see if I can get to 0.62X.   At 1340 mm it produces an awesomely flat and uniformly illuminated field across the Ultrastar chip.  Of note here for anyone thinking of getting a Celestron SCT for EAA - DO NOT waste your money getting an EdgeHD scope.  Unless you plan to use it at f/10, there's no need, and the FR options are restrictive.  If I had a normal C8 I could have gotten a 0.5X Optec reducer that doubtless would have worked just as well as the one I have.  My fantasy observatory will include a scope upgrade to a non-Edge C11, if I'm ever able to do it.

6. Get some long powered (Active) USB extension cables, and a good powered USB hub.  I ended up with an Anker USB 3.0 powered hub (back compatible to USB 2.0).  Without this and the active cables the data transfer rates were too slow, and SLL stacking ended up falling behind even long exposures because the new subs were coming down the pipe too slowly.

With all that said, here's what it looks like now:

You can see the scope and mount on its pier, and the cables trailing down to a little power/control box board that hooks over the balcony rail.  Everything is in place to observe except the dew shield.  I put that on last-minute so I can leave the scope cover in place while the scope cools down (I do have a TEMPest fan for that BTW which works great).  Here is a closer view of the scope:

 

Here you can clearly see the focusing motor, filterwheel, Ultrastar, etc.  To control the cord proliferation, you can see that three USB cables (I bought 3-foot ones) from the Ultrastar, Orion guide cam, and filterwheel, plus the telephone-style cords from the guide cam and focus motor, all feed into a piece of 3/4" flexible cable housing.  This tucks through the carry hndle on the back of the OTA and down to feed the USB cables into the Anker hub, which you can see mounted on the RA housing of the mount.  The other cables go through a little cable clip that you can't see from this angle before heading off to their destinations.  There's just enough cable to allow the mount  its full range of motion, and nothing gets tangled.  If you look on the couterweight shaft you can see a piece of white tape that marks the spot that the counterweight needs to go to.  Everything is marked to permit fast, repeatable setup.  The thin cable you see behind the 3/4" housing is the power cord for the TEMPest fan.

This is the power distribution setup:

It is kind of a kludge, with 12V power supplies for the hub and Microtouch controller, and the 12V cigarette-lighter style unit to allow the mount, TEMPest, and dew shield heater to plug in.  

My next goal is to build some sort of compact 12V power distribution system, such that I have a single transformer on this thing, connected to a small distribution block cemented to the mount next to the USB hub.  That block will have a bunch of standard 5mm center-positive sockets in it, and I envision creating custom-length cords for each unit needing 12V power run to it, so everything is clean and tangle-free.

Hope this is useful to those of you wanting to come in from the cold!

Alex

 

 

 

[laudropb]

Very nice set up.

[Ain Soph Aur]

Excellent post! There are lots of good ideas in your post that are helpful as I work on my remote system. I currently have a CGEM DX that stays outside and protected by a Telegizmos 365 cover when not in use. I am currently using a laptop at the scope with a CAT cable running into the house to a hub, and Teamviewer to remote control from the house. This isn't optimal so I plan on investing in active USB cableing soon.

I am also using a SX 7-filter USB wheel and am really looking forward the SL v3. Very pleased I decided on the SX when I was shopping for filter wheels! Nothng like be able to take darks at will without going outside. I am using a Baader 1.25" Click-Lock Eyepiece adapter on the output of the filter wheel and highly recommend this method. I have noted how deep the X2 seats into the adapter with both the .33x and .63x reducers, so allows for easy set up. One of those would perhaps ease your spacing issue.

One of my other hobbies is ham and shortwave radio, and I've been using a DC distribution system with Johnson Power Poles in the radio shack for many years and highly recommend this system. I am not using power poles at the scope yet, but plan on doing so as soon as I pick up another hub.

[DoctorD]

Hi Alex

A great set-up - I'm working towards a similar set-up.

I currently have:

C8 on HEQ5 plus F3.3 Reducer and Lodestar-C

USB 2.0 Hub and 10m USB extension (I'm still having problems with this especially in cold weather)

Macbook Pro running:

EQMAC - allows PC control f mount (Like EQMOD for Windows)

Starlight Live

Sky Safari Pro

Astrometry.net (allows accurate sync if GOTO not 100%)

I'd like to add:

Remote focuser

USB Filter Wheel - fantastic idea Alex, I had not though about using this for Darks as well as narrowband!

USB->IP convertor so I can dispense with the USB extensions.

I also saw this mini computer that got me thinking I may be able to simplify it even further (If I'm prepared to go back to Windows!)

http://www.365astronomy.com/Primaluce-Lab-EAGLE-Control-unit-for-Telescopes-and-Astrophotography.html

However the price may be prohibitive.

Clear Skies

 

Paul

 

 

[stash_old]

Hi Alex - love the setup and like all things its evolving.

I was interested to hear you say don't bother with EdgeHD so I am going to have to rethink my future (long long term) plans.

 

Only to add idea's here what I have - i sit in a nice warm place(old caravan with heater) which have 240v mains.

In the caravan :

Laptop(s) or tablet running Windows vista and later Windows 10.

On the laptop I run EQMOD/Ascom,Sharpcap and/or BYEEOS and I jump between Stallarium and CDC. From the laptop I run a single USB 2.0 active cable (20m) which terminates at a 5v powered hub at the mount. from this hub  to the camera(s) via 5m active cables.

To provide 13.8v at the mount I use a Ham radio power supply which produces 13.8v DC upto 20amp - a single 12v dc cable runs from this power dist to the mount at which point I use 2 3 port 12v dc cig points to power the mount and anything else. This also involves a couple of "DC-DC Bricks" to convert the 12v to 5v for the Hub and a couple of other things.

As I say I use EQMOD to control the mount and Ascom also provides a means to control a remote focuser which I have nearly finished (DIY job using Robert Browns instructions - high recommened) - EQMOD reaches the mount by using RS232 to IP Computer on a board(COB) - so on the laptop the serial com port is converted to wireless IP(ethernet) and are recvd by the COB which acts as a AP point and is connected as per usually from the laptop. The COB comes with its own serial to IP software which creates a COM point that is tied to the COB wireless. The output from the Cob is TTL rs232 so I have just wired the mount using CAT5 cabling. There is a very slight delay using Wireless but its not that noticeable.

I too have looked at USB over IP but it produced more problems than it was worth - maybe if it improves I will look again. For now using 2 active cables and a powered hub as described above works for me.

If I use my Analogue SCB2000 or LN300 I use coaxial over Cat5 using baluns mainly because its easier for me to create RJ45 connections than coaxial connections.

My mount is a AZEQ6GT on which I have mounted my Bresser 127/635 and a ST80. The mount itself I built using a 8 inch plastic pipe sunk into concrete in the  ground - filled with concrete and topped with a DIY pier top using 2 Volkswagen Golf brake discs which had the correct hole size to sit the AZEQ6.

Things on my List:

1. Create my second DIY focuser for the Bresser.

2. Create a Obsys with a sliding (or whatever) root

3. Once (2) is finished move a PC into the obsys to run EQMOD etc and then use RealVNC (same as Teamviewer) to control view the PC.

4. If I win the Lottery I  would like a c14 with a SW EQ8 and a Hyperstar plus a decent CCD  AND being greedy a nice 24 inch DOB for viewing - well one can dream. I have been really impressed with Hilodon's C6/Hyperstar/Ultrastar set up but can't find anyone local to see it action in the flesh and it would be a lot of cash,for me, to splash out only to find I dont like it.

5. Next buy will be a either a X2 or ultrastar - The latter only if I can persuade my wife its a good xmas present if she and the kids club together.

6. A weather control device so I can command clear skies when I want - 

 

Clear skies

[Astrojedi]

Alex that is a very creative setup and excellent use of the space you have. Do you dismount the scope after a observing session or is this a permanent setup?

Is the wooden pier stable enough? Do you get any vibrations from the deck?

I am planning a more permanent setup this year and still deciding whether to stick with my C11 or go for a C12 (Meade) or C14 (Celestron).

 

[aparker]

4 hours ago, Astrojedi said:

Alex that is a very creative setup and excellent use of the space you have. Do you dismount the scope after a observing session or is this a permanent setup?

Is the wooden pier stable enough? Do you get any vibrations from the deck?

I am planning a more permanent setup this year and still deciding whether to stick with my C11 or go for a C12 (Meade) or C14 (Celestron).

 

Hiten,

I bring the scope and mount in every night after using them.  Between weather and work I often go weeks between sessions so it doesn't make sense to leave them in place.  I have everything marked/scribed so that it sets up in minutes.

The pier is stable enough as long as I'm not walking on the deck (another reason to be inside).  The only other thing that causes vibration is when the commuter train rolls by once an hour (about 100 yards from the house).  Other than that it's stable enough.

If it was me, I'd always stick with Celestron for the Hyperstar option.

Alex

[RobertI]

Thanks for sharing the details of your superb setup Alex, that's given me some nice ideas!

I tried the handset extension approach (12m) but sadly it only worked intermittently so I now use Nexremote (which is great) via a 12m active USB.

My biggest issue is alignment at the beginning of the session - I have a homemade electronic finder for remote alignment but the initial slews are very poor and sometimes still out of the finder's FOV so I still have to go outside to align. Currently investigating a plate solving option, may post a separate topic to get some advice on that. 

I now have a remote control filter wheel :) but no auto-focusing.

I can be up and running in about 20 minutes if everything goes right, but it rarely does in practice!

Rob

[Astrojedi]

5 hours ago, RobertI said:

Thanks for sharing the details of your superb setup Alex, that's given me some nice ideas!

I tried the handset extension approach (12m) but sadly it only worked intermittently so I now use Nexremote (which is great) via a 12m active USB.

My biggest issue is alignment at the beginning of the session - I have a homemade electronic finder for remote alignment but the initial slews are very poor and sometimes still out of the finder's FOV so I still have to go outside to align. Currently investigating a plate solving option, may post a separate topic to get some advice on that. 

I now have a remote control filter wheel but no auto-focusing.

I can be up and running in about 20 minutes if everything goes right, but it rarely does in practice!

Rob

If you have a Celestron mount try Starsense. I use Starsense and the alignment is pretty painless. Goto always places objects nearly dead center

[RobertI]

7 hours ago, Astrojedi said:

If you have a Celestron mount try Starsense. I use Starsense and the alignment is pretty painless. Goto always places objects nearly dead center

Thanks Hiten, i would love starsense - do you think I could make it work with a very restricted view as I can only see at most 50 percent of the sky, mostly overhead, and I also have two bright streelights nearby?

btw, looks like starsense is available for Skywatcher now!

[stash_old]

15 hours ago, RobertI said:

Thanks for sharing the details of your superb setup Alex, that's given me some nice ideas!

I tried the handset extension approach (12m) but sadly it only worked intermittently so I now use Nexremote (which is great) via a 12m active USB.

My biggest issue is alignment at the beginning of the session - I have a homemade electronic finder for remote alignment but the initial slews are very poor and sometimes still out of the finder's FOV so I still have to go outside to align. Currently investigating a plate solving option, may post a separate topic to get some advice on that. 

I now have a remote control filter wheel but no auto-focusing.

I can be up and running in about 20 minutes if everything goes right, but it rarely does in practice!

Rob

Hi Rob,  

I use Astrotortilla to plate solve and (although I haven't tried it) it will polar align but you need to be using EDMOD - I find it works 95% of the time ,excluding clouds, and can be made to centre within 0.1 Arcsmin ( i tend not to bother). If you used EQMOD it will also add alignment points. Takes 20secs on average to centre object  plus exposure times. Although not as fancy as Polemaster or Starsense I can recommend it and its free. IMO - One day soon there will be no Polarscopes,which are a pain, just polar alignment camera's  :-)

Example picture shows object after Astrotorilla plate solve and centering from the other night. 

 

[RobertI]

1 hour ago, stash_old said:

Hi Rob,  

I use Astrotortilla to plate solve and (although I haven't tried it) it will polar align but you need to be using EDMOD - I find it works 95% of the time ,excluding clouds, and can be made to centre within 0.1 Arcsmin ( i tend not to bother). If you used EQMOD it will also add alignment points. Takes 20secs on average to centre object  plus exposure times. Although not as fancy as Polemaster or Starsense I can recommend it and its free. IMO - One day soon there will be no Polarscopes,which are a pain, just polar alignment camera's  :-)

Example picture shows object after Astrotorilla plate solve and centering from the other night. 

 

Thanks stash_old, it's good to hear this is working well for you. I would like to try this route before buying any more hardware, I just need to work out how to use astrotortilla (or similar platesolver) with my CG5; I can either try and get it working via Nexremote (precious little info on the web about this) or ditch Nexremote and go another route - can EQMOD be made to work with Celestron mounts? Thanks.

Sorry to divert your thread Alex.

Rob

[stash_old]

3 hours ago, RobertI said:

Thanks stash_old, it's good to hear this is working well for you. I would like to try this route before buying any more hardware, I just need to work out how to use astrotortilla (or similar platesolver) with my CG5; I can either try and get it working via Nexremote (precious little info on the web about this) or ditch Nexremote and go another route - can EQMOD be made to work with Celestron mounts? Thanks.

Sorry to divert your thread Alex.

Rob

 

 

Dont know if it helps but something called Nexremote seems to be one route but I know nothing about it.

[Astrojedi]

On March 8, 2016 at 17:52, aparker said:

Hiten,

I bring the scope and mount in every night after using them.  Between weather and work I often go weeks between sessions so it doesn't make sense to leave them in place.  I have everything marked/scribed so that it sets up in minutes.

The pier is stable enough as long as I'm not walking on the deck (another reason to be inside).  The only other thing that causes vibration is when the commuter train rolls by once an hour (about 100 yards from the house).  Other than that it's stable enough.

If it was me, I'd always stick with Celestron for the Hyperstar option.

Alex

Ok. Makes sense. I guess you just leave all the cables out and cover them.

I am almost 99% going to go with the Celestron but want to make sure I do my diligence. I have come across a lot of observatories that used Meade.

If I go larger it will likely be to go deeper so Hyperstar is less of a concern (I would probably have a smaller scope for that). 

 

[Astrojedi]

12 hours ago, RobertI said:

Thanks Hiten, i would love starsense - do you think I could make it work with a very restricted view as I can only see at most 50 percent of the sky, mostly overhead, and I also have two bright streelights nearby?

btw, looks like starsense is available for Skywatcher now!

It should work. I also have many obstructions in my backyard.

When I do a Starsense align it actually uses a relatively narrow portion of the sky and follows an identical path every time. It only deviates if that path does not work (due to clouds or twilight).

I start the align with the scope level and pointing West. Starsense takes the first image pointing West about 40deg in elevation. it then traces a West to East Arc and ends up facing ~60deg altitude facing South East. It stays within a band of 30-40 deg of overhead sky running from West to East.

Sometimes when I want to access the lower part of my southern sky I set it up between the houses (as my backyard faces north). In this instance I use a very narrow South to North band of sky for alignment (basically what is visible between the houses). It follows the same trajectory as the W-E alignment.

 

[aparker]

There's also a new polar alignment tool from QHY

https://www.optcorp.com/qhy-polemaster-eq-mount-polar-alignment-camera.html

If you can see Polaris from your observing location.

You can get away with not seeing more than 50% of the sky for sure - I certainly can't.  I just have to pick my alignment stars carefully from the CGEM list (it has actually forced me to learn lots of star names, which is good).

[aparker]

8 hours ago, Astrojedi said:

Ok. Makes sense. I guess you just leave all the cables out and cover them.

I am almost 99% going to go with the Celestron but want to make sure I do my diligence. I have come across a lot of observatories that used Meade.

If I go larger it will likely be to go deeper so Hyperstar is less of a concern (I would probably have a smaller scope for that). 

 

I actually roll the cables up and put them away too.  Nothing stays outside except the pier with its upside-down plastic trash can over it to keep the rain off.  If I lived where I grew up (New Mexico) I would be much more sanguine about leaving electronics outside, but the climate in New England just ruins stuff that's left out...

If you know you are going to stick with the Cassegrain focus (no hyperstar), the f/8 Meade optics are definitely worth considering.  But also worth considering that for the price of a 12" Meade ACF you are getting pretty close to a good 12" truss RC too.

 

[RobertI]

10 hours ago, Astrojedi said:

It should work. I also have many obstructions in my backyard.

When I do a Starsense align it actually uses a relatively narrow portion of the sky and follows an identical path every time. It only deviates if that path does not work (due to clouds or twilight).

I start the align with the scope level and pointing West. Starsense takes the first image pointing West about 40deg in elevation. it then traces a West to East Arc and ends up facing ~60deg altitude facing South East. It stays within a band of 30-40 deg of overhead sky running from West to East.

Sometimes when I want to access the lower part of my southern sky I set it up between the houses (as my backyard faces north). In this instance I use a very narrow South to North band of sky for alignment (basically what is visible between the houses). It follows the same trajectory as the W-E alignment.

 

Thanks Hiten sounds like it should work for me too. I shall start the process of mentally justifying the spend to myself!

Alex - yes i also have to pick alignment stars which are visible, I use a list I imported into Sky Safari. Once I have chosen 4 stars they are usually good for a few weeks before the sky changes significantly, but it's still additional precious time. The QHY Polemaster is a fantastic concept, at the moment though I have polar alignment to a fine art - 60 seconds and I'm done, at least good enough for EAA.

I can see why an alt-az mount with starsense is perfect for EAA. 

[aparker]

5 hours ago, RobertI said:

Alex - yes i also have to pick alignment stars which are visible, I use a list I imported into Sky Safari.

That's a great idea.  I think I'm going to import the whole CGEM list into Sky Safari.

[cathalferris]

On 08/03/2016 at 20:57, Astrojedi said:

It should work. I also have many obstructions in my backyard.

When I do a Starsense align it actually uses a relatively narrow portion of the sky and follows an identical path every time. It only deviates if that path does not work (due to clouds or twilight).

I start the align with the scope level and pointing West. Starsense takes the first image pointing West about 40deg in elevation. it then traces a West to East Arc and ends up facing ~60deg altitude facing South East. It stays within a band of 30-40 deg of overhead sky running from West to East.

Sometimes when I want to access the lower part of my southern sky I set it up between the houses (as my backyard faces north). In this instance I use a very narrow South to North band of sky for alignment (basically what is visible between the houses). It follows the same trajectory as the W-E alignment.

 

It's possible to do a manual align with the StarSense, with a set of points of your choosing. This set of alignment points can then be saved and used for the next auto align. I've been experimenting with this myself with my AVX and it works well, getting pretty much every object close to the centre of my scb4000 at 800mm focal length. 

If possible have a few points on the other side of the meridian to get any cone error known. Of course this is not necessary with an alt-az mount.

[Astrojedi]

9 hours ago, cathalferris said:

It's possible to do a manual align with the StarSense, with a set of points of your choosing. This set of alignment points can then be saved and used for the next auto align. I've been experimenting with this myself with my AVX and it works well, getting pretty much every object close to the centre of my scb4000 at 800mm focal length. 

If possible have a few points on the other side of the meridian to get any cone error known. Of course this is not necessary with an alt-az mount.

Thanks for the tip. Yes that is another way to do this. I use the Starsense with my Evo Alt Az mount. My EQ mount is only used for imaging and these days sees little use.

Down the line I am planning a permanent EQ setup which should combine my EAA and imaging rigs so frequent aligns will hopefully be a thing of the past. This approach may come in handy.