To Dome or To Roll?

[snowy911]

Gav, I had the very same debate myself recently, the decider for me was the cost of automating a dome, wasn't far off the cost of the pulsar 2.2 dome!  I cunningly incorporated a bike shed and ROR in the same build which kept all members of the household happy!

Completed in 4 weeks, and so far so good.  Took a lot of advice from builds on this site, used FH brundle gate rollers for example which means I can open the roof with 1 finger, and besides going outside to open the roof, everything else is managed from the comfort of my living room.

Now if I could only influence the weather......

[ncjunk]

If you want to fully automate it in the future it is best if whichever design you choose can close with the scope in any position. This way you can close it in a weather emergency, or any other, with out having to wait for it to park - this is critical as if you have a software or usb problem and you lose your mount connection if the roof doesn't clear the scope you are up a creak without a paddle.

[PhotoGav]

12 hours ago, steppenwolf said:

How strange, it looks as though they haven't updated the order system to take into consideration the new drive units (from the photos, both azimuth and aperture drive systems are different from mine).

I guess you could contact them directly and ask them to put together a quotation for you tailored for exactly what you require?

That's exactly what I have done. I await a reply, but it does appear that it will be a slightly less expensive solution after all. Updates to follow...

[PhotoGav]

Snowy911 - that's a fine solution. Certainly too big a structure for my garden though. Indeed, I fear that the weather is only ever going to be terrible for a very long period following such a large investment of effort, time and money in astronomy.

Neil - a very good point indeed. After all, one of the major points of having an obsy is the ability to cheekily open up when the forecast for later would have stopped me from lugging everything out into the garden. I am in England, so the appearance of cloud and rain is inevitable on such evenings! Thank you for mentioning the thought.

[steppenwolf]

5 hours ago, ncjunk said:

If you want to fully automate it in the future it is best if whichever design you choose can close with the scope in any position. This way you can close it in a weather emergency, or any other, with out having to wait for it to park - this is critical as if you have a software or usb problem and you lose your mount connection if the roof doesn't clear the scope you are up a creak without a paddle.

This is such a valid point. Earlier versions of the Pulsar dome only operated the shutter with the aperture in a particular position (normally the 'home' position) using IR sensors but the newer version that I have has an RF link so the shutter can be closed at any position. I note that the even newer version that has appeared on their website has a Bluetooth connection which is bi-directional. If it suddenly started to rain, I'd want my observatory to close immediately and I guess that is more problematic with a RoR because of height restrictions as Neil has intimated.

Although I have a CloudWatcher system which works brilliantly, this does rely on the computer system all being fully functional so I do have plans for a very simple rain detector only that will fit on the dome section and close the dome on it own without software interaction if it rains but, of course, it won't pause operations if it is just cloudy like the CloudWatcher does!

[ollypenrice]

14 hours ago, nucdoc said:

You can always be creative in your design to get around the 'ugly shed' concerns of the Director of the Board, worked for me.....

 

 

Astronomer comes home to find the chairman of the board enjoying a G and T under cover in a shower of rain. 'Marvellous patio, darling. I just rolled the roof over me when it started raining...'

Olly

[martin_h]

The Cloudwatcher does have a simple open/close relay that can be directly connected to the roof/shutter motor to operate with no computer intervention.

[steppenwolf]

12 minutes ago, martin_h said:

The Cloudwatcher does have a simple open/close relay that can be directly connected to the roof/shutter motor to operate with no computer intervention.

Indeed it does and for a RoR this is fantastic but it cannot be so easily implemented on a domed observatory as there is, of course, no 'wired' connection between the 'fixed' walls and the 'rotating' dome section. If I had a RoR (and I have been tempted in the past because of the full sky vista) this is the method I would use because it is pretty fail-safe.

[PhotoGav]

Mmm, interesting discussions indeed, thank you all for your input. It is giving me plenty to consider and while I am not yet fully decided, I do feel better informed and perhaps closer to a decision. Whatever, I am most definitely more and more convinced that an observatory with a fair degree of sofa controlability is the best next step in my astrophotography journey.

 

[steppenwolf]

Quote

You can always be creative in your design to get around the 'ugly shed' concerns of the Director of the Board, worked for me.....

@nucdoc This is without doubt the most elegant RoR solution if have seen - excellent! I also loved Olly's comment.

[PhotoGav]

You've all got me thinking about cloud sensors now... What is the best sensor to use?

[steppenwolf]

I researched this for my own automation project and the AAG CloudWatcher is very popular and the support from Jaime is brilliant. I also considered the Aurora Eurotech version which on paper seems very similar but have no experience of the product. The AAG that I have works faultlessly.

For either, you will require an RS232 port or USB to RS232 adaptor.

[PhotoGav]

35 minutes ago, steppenwolf said:

I researched this for my own automation project and the AAG CloudWatcher is very popular and the support from Jaime is brilliant. I also considered the Aurora Eurotech version which on paper seems very similar but have no experience of the product. The AAG that I have works faultlessly.

For either, you will require an RS232 port or USB to RS232 adaptor.

Thank you Steve. Those are the two that I came up with after reading your earlier posts again and doing a bit of Internet research. It's good to hear positive first hand reports of the CloudWatcher. My list of 'future enhancements' is growing rapidly!

[steppenwolf]

Quote

My list of 'future enhancements' is growing rapidly!

In inverse proportion to you bank balance .....................

[PhotoGav]

7 minutes ago, steppenwolf said:

In inverse proportion to you bank balance .....................

Indeed. Ouch!

[martin_h]

10 minutes ago, PhotoGav said:

Thank you Steve. Those are the two that I came up with after reading your earlier posts again and doing a bit of Internet research. It's good to hear positive first hand reports of the CloudWatcher. My list of 'future enhancements' is growing rapidly!

I use the Cloudwatcher unit but use it in conjunction with their "Solo" unit, which reports over the network, thus freeing up a valuable USB port....... Another thing to add to the growing list - A cat6 network cable out to the obs, might as well chuck one in along with the power.

[PhotoGav]

Just now, martin_h said:

I use the Cloudwatcher unit but use it in conjunction with their "Solo" unit, which reports over the network, thus freeing up a valuable USB port....... Another thing to add to the growing list - A cat6 network cable out to the obs, might as well chuck one in along with the power.

Funny you should mention that, while out walking the dog earlier today my thoughts turned to data cabling. So it's ok to run the data cable with the power cable, two separate runs not required? Does the data cable then plug into the router in the house so that the obsy PC is hard wire connected to the house network and beyond? I presume so...

[steppenwolf]

I would run the two in separate conduits as although Cat 5 uses twisted pair, over a long distance (likely) I am not sure that it would be totally resilient to interference from an AC supply. I may be biased but WiFi doesn't sit well with me for this, I'd definitely want my observatory PC wired to the router.

[PhotoGav]

Just now, steppenwolf said:

I would run the two in separate conduits as although Cat 5 uses twisted pair, over a long distance (likely) I am not sure that it would be totally resilient to interference from an AC supply. I may be biased but WiFi doesn't sit well with me for this, I'd definitely want my observatory PC wired to the router.

Excellent, thank you again Steve. I fear that I will receive an invoice for consultancy fees from you before long!

[martin_h]

Just to muddy the waters...I have a cat5 and a cat6 cable out to the obs from the house, My mains wiring to the obs is all above ground in 20mm conduit, the network cables are cable tied to the outside of the conduit, with no problems at all regarding interference. 

 

[Gina]

The ability to close the ROR with scope in any position is a problem I have with my MN190 (other scopes clear the roof in any position) and this I shall need to do something about before full automation of my roof.  Either that or not use automation when imaging with that scope.  My observatory build was not sufficiently "futureproof"   But hindsight is a wonderful thing - I can only advise new builders.  I have learned a lot since I built my observatory and happy to pass on any advise to help others.

[snowy911]

I've been using Linksys power line adapters, although also have cat 5 going to the ROR should I feel the need to change.  The only reason I'm not using the cat5 is simply an issue with running the cable inside the house, from the back door to the router.  So far the power line adapters have been great.

Good point on roof clearance, at some point I may change the roof to an apex if I want fully automated imaging, hindsight again.

[nucdoc]

10 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Astronomer comes home to find the chairman of the board enjoying a G and T under cover in a shower of rain. 'Marvellous patio, darling. I just rolled the roof over me when it started raining...'

Olly

Good one Olley

 

There is a canvas sun tarp that covers the deck, I took this picture just before packing up the deck for winter, so the tarp is not in the picture 

 

M

[ncjunk]

6 hours ago, martin_h said:

I use the Cloudwatcher unit but use it in conjunction with their "Solo" unit, which reports over the network, thus freeing up a valuable USB port....... Another thing to add to the growing list - A cat6 network cable out to the obs, might as well chuck one in along with the power.

Mine is connected to a serial port on the motherboard so doesn't need the usb either!

The aag is great mine has worked non stop since i got it and i use it all the time just to see what the cloud cover is like.

[steppenwolf]

Quote

Just to muddy the waters...I have a cat5 and a cat6 cable out to the obs from the house, My mains wiring to the obs is all above ground in 20mm conduit, the network cables are cable tied to the outside of the conduit, with no problems at all regarding interference. 

Nothing like first hand experience,  not muddying but clarification!