Low budget telescope vs DSLR only?

[NorthernLights]

I'm trying to figure out how to go forward with my purchasing plans.

My budget is, as for many others, quite limited. I have my eyes on a 150PDS with EQ3 Synscan, but that's a little over $1000 and it's simply not in my budget at this point, not even with credit. I have no hopes of having been nice enough for Santa to gift me one either, sadly

Anyway, having looked around on this forum a bit, I have come to realise that in the long run I won't be happy not being able to image. I'm trying to figure out how to move forward right now. The winters are not eternal and in the summers it doesn't get dark here, so I don't want to save for 6 months. By then the stars will be invisible.

How far can you get with a DSLR? I have one, A Canon T1i (I think that's the 500D?), so in this case, it would be buying a lens. I'd be happy being able to take some pictures of stars, clusters, galaxies, whatever is out there. I assume that catching nebulas with a DSLR is a bit much to wish for

Or is it better to buy a low budget telescope, presumably with an alt-az mount and do whatever I can (I've seen some quite impressive things in the "No EQ" thread!)?

I'm trying to think long term investments here

[wxsatuser]

A dslr can take reasonable images but tracking of some sort will be helpful.

[happy-kat]

Off to get you a good read.

Haven't found the one I was after but this will do.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/257232-the-budget-imaging-challenge/?fromsearch=1

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/252139-dslr-and-135mm-lense/#entry2748171

[D4N]

Lookup barn door mount, this is a DIY tracking mount suitable for use with short focal lengths you will have with a DSLR.

If you can remove the IR filter from the DSLR it will be very good at capturing Nebulosity.

An intervalometer is a bit of a must for a DSLR but they are cheap.

Astro imaging is an expensive hobby but it can be done successfully on the cheap if you have DIY skills and patience.

/Dan

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Leveye]

Save your money and put it into a great mount. That has been the one thing that really moved my astrophotography light years ahead.

[happy-kat]

Found it, prepared by a member from here.

http://www.nightofmanywords.com/articles/budget-lenses-for-astrophotography

[geordie85]

Found it, prepared by a member from here.

http://www.nightofmanywords.com/articles/budget-lenses-for-astrophotography

What a fantastic read that was.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

What a fantastic read that was.

Thanks, glad you found it useful.

I'm trying to figure out how to go forward with my purchasing plans.

My budget is, as for many others, quite limited....

How far can you get with a DSLR? I have one, A Canon T1i (I think that's the 500D?), so in this case, it would be buying a lens. I'd be happy being able to take some pictures of stars, clusters, galaxies, whatever is out there. I assume that catching nebulas with a DSLR is a bit much to wish for

Hi. There are some decent budget options available and your 500D is a decent camera for AP. Taking a few shots from a fixed tripod is a good place to start, to help familiarise yourself with the camera settings, focussing and framing. I put together a quick guide to shooting with a kit lens that you might find useful.

Adding a tracking mount will open up a lot more possibilities, there are a couple possibilities here. If you are confident that you'll want to move to guided imaging further down the line a sturdy mount like an HEQ5 would be a good investment, but this will soak up much of your budget. Another approach would to be a lighter mount such as a Star Adventurer or EQ3 & RA motor, with a mind to perhaps selling them on later. These cheaper mounts are well suited to driving camera lenses at relatively short focal lengths, say up to about 200mm.

Some of the brighter nebulae can be captured with an unmodded DSLR but having the IR filter removed will allow much more nebulosity to be captured, is this something you could consider?

Hope that's some help.

[wimvb]

You can do imaging with a standard dslr and lens. For tracking you can either build a barn door tracker if you are handy or buy a tracking mount such as skywatcher star adventure. You will also need processing software, eg deep sky stacker and Photoshop or similar.

There are plenty examples in this forum of astrophotography using this kind of setup.

For observing you can use a decent pair of binoculars. I myself have the opticron oregon 15 * 70. This setup is low bydget but can keep you occupied for a long time.

Good luck and clear skies

Wim

(also blessed with long winter nights, and cursed with absent summer nights)

sent from my mobile device

[ollypenrice]

Many nebulae are very large. Very large indeed. 

A DSLR with camera lens on a tracking mount has plenty of work to do. (This image was a scope mosaic but here's a famous Orion shot with a 50mm lens.

http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.sky-map.org%2Fstar_image%2F000%2F000518.jpeg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.sky-map.org%2FstarImageView.jsp%3Fimage_id%3D518&h=2400&w=1601&tbnid=PXXYCrP9s3Dk8M%3A&docid=rhxby-_ZXOlH5M&ei=rPBrVoTcI4WhUa2-t-gN&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=272&page=1&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=0ahUKEwiE4pXJiNbJAhWFUBQKHS3fDd0QrQMIODAI

Olly

[NorthernLights]

Found it, prepared by a member from here.

http://www.nightofmanywords.com/articles/budget-lenses-for-astrophotography

Wow, that is very interesting, thank you for that! It makes me wonder how I've had a DSLR for years without letting it use its full potential!

Thanks, glad you found it useful.

Hi. There are some decent budget options available and your 500D is a decent camera for AP. Taking a few shots from a fixed tripod is a good place to start, to help familiarise yourself with the camera settings, focussing and framing. I put together a quick guide to shooting with a kit lens that you might find useful.

Adding a tracking mount will open up a lot more possibilities, there are a couple possibilities here. If you are confident that you'll want to move to guided imaging further down the line a sturdy mount like an HEQ5 would be a good investment, but this will soak up much of your budget. Another approach would to be a lighter mount such as a Star Adventurer or EQ3 & RA motor, with a mind to perhaps selling them on later. These cheaper mounts are well suited to driving camera lenses at relatively short focal lengths, say up to about 200mm.

Some of the brighter nebulae can be captured with an unmodded DSLR but having the IR filter removed will allow much more nebulosity to be captured, is this something you could consider?

Hope that's some help.

That's such a great guide, I feel like it should be pinned somewhere. Even a complete newbie like me can understand that!

I was actually looking into getting a Star Adventurer, but I have to admit I'm not sure I'm smart enough to use one. Don't know how many instruction videos I've watched, yet I still don't even understand how it works. I promise, I'm usually not this daft with electronics, I work in IT support! I guess the relevant question is, does it in any way require an electric output (other than batteries)? My planned imaging site is far out in the bushes.

I understand what difference the modding will do for AP, but what difference will it make in terms of using the camera in daylight? Will it be impossible to use (i.e. should I budget for buying myself another DSLR for daytime use?). I'd have to try to find someone who can do it for me too, won't be the easiest task but from the pictures I've seen here on the forum, it might just be worth it. 

You can do imaging with a standard dslr and lens. For tracking you can either build a barn door tracker if you are handy or buy a tracking mount such as skywatcher star adventure. You will also need processing software, eg deep sky stacker and Photoshop or similar.

There are plenty examples in this forum of astrophotography using this kind of setup.

For observing you can use a decent pair of binoculars. I myself have the opticron oregon 15 * 70. This setup is low bydget but can keep you occupied for a long time.

Good luck and clear skies

Wim

(also blessed with long winter nights, and cursed with absent summer nights)

sent from my mobile device

I actually downloaded Deep Sky Stacker yesterday to try it out, I have yet to try it out. Does Photoshop have a stacking feature nowadays or could it only be used for single images? (I have the CS5 so I don't know what's been added to the new version)

Indeed I am looking into getting binoculars, I think looking through a camera will get boring quickly

Wow, another Swede on here, cool!

Many nebulae are very large. Very large indeed. 

A DSLR with camera lens on a tracking mount has plenty of work to do. (This image was a scope mosaic but here's a famous Orion shot with a 50mm lens.

http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.sky-map.org%2Fstar_image%2F000%2F000518.jpeg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.sky-map.org%2FstarImageView.jsp%3Fimage_id%3D518&h=2400&w=1601&tbnid=PXXYCrP9s3Dk8M%3A&docid=rhxby-_ZXOlH5M&ei=rPBrVoTcI4WhUa2-t-gN&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=272&page=1&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=0ahUKEwiE4pXJiNbJAhWFUBQKHS3fDd0QrQMIODAI

Olly

That's amazing. Goes to show what you can achieve without making holes in your pockets. I'm hoping for clear skies!!

[wimvb]

You can combine images in PS but this feature is not for stacking. Do the stacking in DSS and use PS for all further processing. I do all my processing including stacking in Pixinsight. This app gives me more control over the process and everything is in one app. But this solution is not so cheap.

sent from my mobile device

[happy-kat]

Staradventure how I see it is a mini capable EQ mount with a motorized RA axis (probably wrong might have more motors). I think it should sit at the right latitude be it on a wedge or something else. This then means it can follow the sky as it rotates around the celestrial poles so you can take images that don't have startrails.

It is a very posh barn door tracker with out the headache of making your own. It is being used to good effect by several members on here, britpaul and davey-t spring to mind. I think it's a great bit of kit and maybe one day I might get one.

[almcl]

what difference the modding will do for AP, but what difference will it make in terms of using the camera in daylight? Will it be impossible to use (i.e. should I budget for buying myself another DSLR for daytime use?). I'd have to try to find someone who can do it for me too, won't be the easiest task but from the pictures I've seen here on the forum, it might just be worth it. 

Have a look at Juan's site here:

http://cheapastrophotography.vpweb.co.uk/Dual-Astro-Daylight-Cameras.html

I bought one of his astro modded cameras and although it is mostly used for astro, it's fine for me in normal photography.

[wimvb]

Proof of concept:

Todays catch (well, actually tonights catch)

M31

Camera Pentax K20D with 135 mm f/3.5 lens at f/5.6, ISO 1600

mount: Skywatcher EQ3-2 GoTo (with aluminium tripod)

11 * 360 sec light frames

bias frames and dark frames (4), no flats

Stacked, cropped and stretched in PixInsight

Image is cropped to approx 35% of original

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Wow, that is very interesting, thank you for that! It makes me wonder how I've had a DSLR for years without letting it use its full potential!

Thanks, I tried to get down the little things that tripped me up when getting started.

I was actually looking into getting a Star Adventurer, but I have to admit I'm not sure I'm smart enough to use one. Don't know how many instruction videos I've watched, yet I still don't even understand how it works. I promise, I'm usually not this daft with electronics, I work in IT support! I guess the relevant question is, does it in any way require an electric output (other than batteries)? My planned imaging site is far out in the bushes.

I understand what difference the modding will do for AP, but what difference will it make in terms of using the camera in daylight? Will it be impossible to use (i.e. should I budget for buying myself another DSLR for daytime use?).

I think the Star Adventurer is battery powered. A certain amount of confusion is normal, imaging is a learning curve and it takes a while to get your head around anything. The Star Adventurer is simply a mini equatorial mount. Basically, you set it up pointing due north and it tracks at the same rate (about 15 degrees per hour) as the sky moves, allowing longer exposures without trailling.

When I had my camera modded I just had the IR filter removed. It could still be used for daylight photography but I'd have to adjust the colour balance for every shot, so bought a second DSLR for general use. It's also possible to have the filter replaced which gives a better colour balance for daylight use, I guess this is option almcl took.

Just a quick word of caution about that Orion image, while it was taken with a 50mm lens it's several hours of exposures with a cooled CDD and Ha filter, the exposure details are here. For comparison, here's my effort with a modded DSLR and 1h15m of data:

[wxsatuser]

You can definately do a lot with a dslr.

Just remember it's not a ccd and nothing can beat good dark skies.

I'm hooked by the FOV that is available with a dslr and short focal lengths.

My main problems are light pollution and getting my head round processing.

Here is part of Orion taken thru heavy LP with a Canon 60Da and a Sigma 105mm macro lense.

Just 8x300sec subs at f/4.5, need to process it better.

[wimvb]

Impressive results for such "simple" setups

Tried my hands at the heart and soul nebula yesterday with my unmodded DSLR. Quite disappointing results. Will have to crank up the exposure time considerably (was 20*4 mins).

Mike, is your canon modded? You captured very nice detail in the red nebulae.

[wxsatuser]

Impressive results for such "simple" setups

Tried my hands at the heart and soul nebula yesterday with my unmodded DSLR. Quite disappointing results. Will have to crank up the exposure time considerably (was 20*4 mins).

Mike, is your canon modded? You captured very nice detail in the red nebulae.

It's a 60Da, already sees extra red.

Some dslrs can see the red better than others.

If they can see at least 25 to 30% around 650nm, they are good to go.

Trouble is trying to find the ones that do.just this,

Here is what a unmodded Canon 6D can do with the red stuff.

This 7x 30secs with a Nifty Fifty wide open, so stars are not to good but look at all that red.

[Jambonature]

Very nice Mike, I'm blown away by the photo, very inspiring. Keep it up

[wimvb]

It's a 60Da, already sees extra red.

[...]

Missed that little detail in the model name

Even the unmodded Canon does a good job at capturing the red.

I've tried my hands at the America and the heart nebulae, but only get mediocre results. I suspect that my camera doesn't pick up the red the way the Canon does.

Fortunately I'm blessed with having access to a dark site and natural noise reduction  (= cold winter nights)

[wxsatuser]

Missed that little detail in the model name

Even the unmodded Canon does a good job at capturing the red.

I've tried my hands at the America and the heart nebulae, but only get mediocre results. I suspect that my camera doesn't pick up the red the way the Canon does.

Fortunately I'm blessed with having access to a dark site and natural noise reduction  (= cold winter nights)

I wish I had dark skies, it gets a bit darker when the local streetlights go out but I'm surrounded by major towns with big light domes.

This is what my street looks like at night, the orange glow bottom right on the clouds is from the

Gatwick Airport at least 15miles away, the huge light source to the left is a school that is like daylight.

The main streetlights are compact flourescent type, a sort of white light, those are just two of them,

there are 6 within 100metres. Luckily I image from the back garden where I'm shielded from nearly all these.

[wxsatuser]

Very nice Mike, I'm blown away by the photo, very inspiring. Keep it up

Thank you.

These images will never come close to Olly's but it's possible to get something reasonable when we are fighting

so many things that try to stop us.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Here is part of Orion taken thru heavy LP with a Canon 60Da and a Sigma 105mm macro lense.

I like the composition on that one, with the loop supporting the sword.

[wimvb]

Mike, I must say your Orion wide field is impressive, especially considering the LP conditions.

This makes my problems trying to capture Orion small: it doesn't clear the trees at my site. I'm currently taking care of this with the help of a good neighbour and his chainsaw

Clear skies