Beginners Telescope : Table top or not ? or stick with binos?

[Run45]

Hi,

I am quite new to Astronomy but spent the last year or so stargazing with simple 7x50 binos at the night sky. I am reasonable confident to find may way around the night sky now and would like to "upgrade".

Currently I can find the Andromeda Galaxy with my binos but it is "extreamly" faint and I can only see it because I know where it is supposed to be. But I really struggle to find/see M13.

This could be because I live in lightpoluted London or because of my cheap binos .. not sure ....

So my first question would be: Could I expect to see M31 and M13 better with a starter/beginners telescope or better binoculars OR would they just amplify the lightpolution so I would not see much of an improvemnt ?

                                                 (Not sure if my current problem is really the light polution or the equipment).

Now to my telescope related questions:

I had the chance to look through some telescopes recently and noticed that the finderscope seems to be always  mounted for dominant-right-eye people. I would like to use my left eye and noticed that you seem to be able to rotate

the OTA on some/most telescope.

My questions is : Do people regularly rotate the OTA to have finderscope or eypiece in a convinient position or is this adjustment done not very ofter during a stratgazing session.

Just trying to find out if you are meant to rotate the OTA a lot or if  you should touch it only infrequently.  Or is there a standard way to mount an additional finderscope to a place where its more convinient for dominant-left-eyed people ?

How important is it actually to be able to rotate the OTA ?

The telescope I tried had a 6x30 Finderscope and I found it hard to use. So my next question would be. Is a red-dot finder a better finder for beginners ?

So when I searched for potential telescopes to by I looked at :  1) rotate-able OTA  2) red-dot-finder included  and ended but with

Skywatcher 130P or Starblast 4.5

The skywatcher seems to come always with an EQ-2 mount but the Starblast exist also as "table-top" version.

Originally I thought that the table-top version would be a really great way to avoid storage but after looking at some videos I am not sure anymore how useful they are because I have seen many people ending up building

tripods for them.  Im curious about what people think about table-top telescope in general.

Also looking at http://uk.telescope.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&siteCode=UK&keyword=starblast+4.5

the table-top version seems a bit overpriced compared with the version that comes with EQ mount + books + barlow ...

I am also aware that dobsonian mounts are usually better for beginners .. so maybe the table top is the better option ?

So my current thinking is :

   If table-top is good  AND OTA rotation is something that I should/could be doing   : get starblast 4.5 table top version

   If table-top is not as good as EQ-2 mount : get starwarcher 130P

   additional option If table-top is good BUT OTA rotation is not an important feature : get skywatcher heritage 100P

or I save a bit more and get my dream 15x70 binos ;-)

thanx for any comments/advice in advance

[bruno]

if you get a telescope the image would be slightly clearer & larger but it would still look similar to the image through your binos

[happy-kat]

Hi

This is the table top one I use and is cheaper price and bigger mirror then the one you liked too.

This has the same mirror as the 130p as it is 130mm and a parabolic mirror which is good in a fast scope like this which is f5.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

I do not use mine on a table, I sit on a stool or garden chair and the telescope I plonk on an upturned bucket.

I have made very cheaply (you can use card) a light shield for it.

I am left eye dominant as I use my left eye at the eye peice but I am very comfortable using my right eye with the red dot finder. This for me is natural, I learnt my eye habit from using microscopes so left eye looked in eye peice and right eye looked at page where I was writing notes etc.

The rotating ones you saw were I think on an EQ mount, they were being rotated because of the way the mount works it can put the eye peice in very unuseable positions if the telescope is a reflector/newtonian so the tube has to be rotated. You could mount your finder scope where ever you like with strong sticky pads etc. If your light pollution is very bad you might need a 5x30 type finder as a red dot relies on you seeing stars to start with to line up with. You can buy finders separetly to add if it helps and there are other tyes like a RACI or Telrad.

My binnoculars are 8 x 42 as these are as big as I can comfortably use by hand.

Realistically you will probably need a tripod with the 15 x 70 you mention as any shaking will ruin the view.

A good book is Turn Left at Orion and for software look at Stellarium which is brilliant.

[ronin]

Personally I am not keen on a table top scope.

The arguement for them is they are small and easy to transport, except you would also have to transport a table of some sort as well. So suddenly less portable, you have the table to include.

Are you left eye dominent and left handed?

In effect do you stand on the other side of a scope to the majority?

If not then I cannot see what prevents you just putting your left eye to the finder - it would have to be a right angle one not a straight through however. So you replace the straight through with a right angle finder. There are 4 or 5 finder designs.

For a newtonian (reflector), especially as a dobsonian mount principle, I do not think a red dot would work, or at least no better then the finder type I think you are talking of.

Do not think you can rotate a table top scope, the fitting to the mount is generally fixed and so the OTA is fixed.

Very likly wrong but I suspect that rotating an OTA on anything described as Dobsonian may be difficult, just the bearing surfaces tend to be fixed to the OTA.

Have you dropped into the BAker Street Group at Regents Park?

If not it would be a chance to see the equipment in use first hand.

[Astro Imp]

^^^^

Great post by happy-kat, absolutely right about need to rotate Newtonians when mounted on equatorial mounts, don't let this put you off it's just the way these mounts work.

Good luck.

[cjdawson]

The finderscope on my LX-90 is mounted for my right eye.  Never really thought about mounting it for my left eye.  Not sure if I could move it.  I know that I can't rotate the OTC because it's fork mounted rather than ring mounted.

However, this isn't really an issue for me, as it's a goto scope and once aligned - which I tend to do most of the alignment through the main optics anyway, there's not really much call to use the finderscope.

There's nothing stopping you adding a second finder in a place that's better suited to your eyesight.  And if the OTA can be rotated, again that'll be fine as long as you can get to the focuser.

[Stub Mandrel]

To answer your M13 question, I have a tiny pair of roof prism binoculars 7x25, I think. Through them on a good night I can see M31 as a big smudge and M32 as a small smudge, M101 is not visible. I can just make out M13 but it is much smaller and doesn't and doesn't resolve into stars.

[Run45]

Thanx everyone. all very useful comments for me ...

To answer some of the questions comments:

 >Are you left eye dominent and left handed?

Yes. But at the end of day I think I should be able to learn to use the telescope the righ-handed-eyed way ..... i when I used a telescope recently for the first time I noticed that I would have prefered the finder in another place ..

>absolutely right about need to rotate Newtonians when mounted on equatorial mounts, don't let this put you off it's just the way these mounts work.

Not putting me off at all ... beeing actually attracted to this because of the freedom to put finder&eypiece into any required position.

>Do not think you can rotate a table top scope, the fitting to the mount is generally fixed and so the OTA is fixed.

Thats what I found too ... But starblast 4.5 seems to be the exception :  http://uk.telescope.com/Orion-StarBlast-45-Astro-Reflector-Telescope/p/109946.uts?keyword=starblast%204.5

>So suddenly less portable, you have the table to include.

Exactly my worry BUT the bucket solution mentioned above might work .... Not sure how stable table-tops are compared to EQ mounts (specifically the EQ-2 of the starwatcher).

>Have you dropped into the BAker Street Group at Regents Park?

Have had only once the chance to join you but it was raining an no-one had a telescope out 

>if you get a telescope the image would be slightly clearer & larger but it would still look similar to the image through your binos

>To answer your M13 question, I have a tiny pair of roof prism binoculars 7x25, I think. Through them on a good night I can see M31 as a big smudge and M32 as a small smudge, M101 is not visible.

This is may main concern and the reason why I am looking at "cheaper" starter scopes ....

[glowjet]

Being in the London area, probably your best bet would be to hang on till the end of this month, The Baker Street Irregulars / Regents park, will be arranging their first Autumn meeting, you will, no doubt, find the answer to your questions and many more, as you will be able to discuss things on a one to one basis. Just keep an eye on their web site for details