Which atik for me

[Stardust]

OK thinking of moving up from my modded 1100D, not that I've exhausted it just think i could start to do something a little better with a cooled CCD

My main scopes are a TV85/reducer at 480mm fl and Meade 127 triplet at 950mm fl

After much agonising colour/mono I think I've decided on Mono as I like the narrowband imagaing, A few experiment with my DSLR have given fairly good results in HA

I'm looking at ATIK cameras and liked the sound of the new 414ex but appreciate this is quite a small chip so my budget will go upto a 393L+ or possibly push to a 460EX if there was a case to do so but if the 414 or 428 fits the bill then that's money spare for filters. I'd like to stick with 1.25" filters as I have a couple and a manual wheel to get me started.

if anyone can post a similar image taken with these cameras against my Orion with DSLR in HA that would be helpful to make a case for the upgrade

My head hurst from a lot of searching so any input is most welcomed

thanks

DAvid

I am in need of a bit of advice, well quite a bit really. I want to move up from a DSLR, I'm getting some good results from my modded 1100D and whilst not great at processing feel my time could be better spent on higher quality data. A friend has a 314L+ mono and another a 420 osc. After a lot of agonising I have decided on mono as narrow band is very appealing.

 

My main scopes are Televue 85 with reducer - 480mm fl and Meade S5000 127 triplet 950mm fl. 

 

The cameras I have been looking at are the 314,414,428,383, 460 is getting out of my price range unless there was a significant advantage it gave. I'd like to stick with 1.25" filters as I have some and a manual wheel to get me started. I'd probably start with HA as I have one and OIII.

 

I've attached my latest M42, which for a DSLR with a 1.25" 12nm HA filter at 10x600s which I'm quite pleased with. I know it's not a good as my friends 314L+ shot but I now feel it would be worth me investing in a CCD.

 

Any help and advice appreciated

I'll be at Astrofest

kind regards

David 

[swag72]

I take it that you have spent oodles of time with the fov calculators? This is my favourite of the bunch http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php .... if you haven't. 

I think that chip size is going to be a personal choice and only one that you can make. If you want to stick with 1.25" filters then you will struggle a little with the larger Kodak chip 383L as you need to get the filters as close to the sensor as you can in order to prevent serious vignetting that will struggle with flats. These filters work fine with an integrated filter wheel such as QSI or Moravain offerings, but these are going to be outside of your budget.

Mono is the way forward and the smaller Sony chips are far more sensitive to Ha than the Kodak chips, but don't get too hung up on that - There are plenty of people taking Ha data with the 383L or similar.

So for me, my choice would be based purely on chip size. From a DSLR just how small are you prepared to go?

[perfrej]

I agree. Chip size is all...

Pity the KAF-8300 is so "poor" in Ha (26 x 15 minutes with TEC-140/QSI-683/Astrodon 5nm Ha, no processing, just histogram stretch):

[NickK]

Hehe.. me? I lubs my 383L (8300) .. it's a great big-little.. (big area, little pixels).

[Stardust]

Yes all good thoughts, will tinker some more with the FOV calculator,  things seems to be fitting in one of the scopes so far. The kodak chip looks to have done a very nice job, will have to cost up 2" filter but I fear that on its might scupper things.

The 428EX has been recommended  based on my 1.25" filter preference, 460 look nice but could stretch the funds too far, especially when I was only looking at a 414 to begin with. I imagine this sort of decision has caused a lot of head banging over the years..  

[johnrt]

Mono mono mono! You've made the right choice!

I can't agree with the above enough, chip size is what decides it with me. I run the 460ex at just over 900mm and it won't fit most large nebula in the fov unless I want to mosaic. But I don't mind, as that's not my bag!

Nothing wrong with the 383l so long as you know how to set up and handle it.

[NickK]

In the end though it's - does it fit your time you have for AP?

The 383L takes a little more time than the new 414EX for example (both for sensitivity and for noise reduction reasons). However if you have the time available then it's very tempting.

Hehe - small targets using the 383L.. the scope being a 670mm with a 2x TV powermate.. 

Bear paw..

M57 upscale drizzled

And some regular 383L action at 670mm..

[perfrej]

The 8300 will do nicely with 36mm unmounted filters in an SX wheel with 7-position carousel. That is what I use on the balcony. The SX wheel is thing (29mm) which brings the filters closer to the camera, and I believe the Atik has around the accepted standard 17.5mm distance to sensor. In other words: choose the right wheel and the right camera and filters won't kill you (you do not need 2").

/per

[lensman57]

How did you stack the Ha data from the DSLR if I may ask?

Regards,

A.G

[Stardust]

I stacked in dss and worked in photoshop

[Stardust]

The 460 has been suggested over the 428 so will have to research that a bit more now. A higher cost but if it's worth it then maybe. why is there so much choice?

[lensman57]

The 460 has been suggested over the 428 so will have to research that a bit more now. A higher cost but if it's worth it then maybe. why is there so much choice?

If you can afford it get the 460, you can always crop a larger chip but never can add to a smaller one unless you do mosaics.

A.G

[Stardust]

Any more views on the 460 as Astrofest is fast approaching, a deal on the day could see my parting with the hard earned.... posts crossed there, you are the second person to say that, I am listening 

[nightster]

I am in this same internal debate, 460 vs 383.  With the budget I have,  I am trying for best value and believe either cam would be an amazing upgrade from DSLR. In US prices this is what I calculate as the cost difference between the two. 

Both with SX filter wheels.

460 using 1.25" Astronomik LRGB   = $3139     +$291 vs 383

460 using 1.25" Baader LRGB         = $3229     +$381 vs 383

383 using 36mm Baader LRGB        =$2847   (The Astronomik 36mm are a nearly same price as Baader)

Is the 460 worth the extra? Is the 383 a bargain?   

Atik has done a great job pricing these cams to make it such a difficult decision.  

[perfrej]

OK, let me put it this way

IIf you want to do narrow band you are looking mostly at nebulosity and other reasonably large objects. In that case you want field of view and reasonable pixel scale. For most targets you will be using your smaller focal length scope, which is similar to my Takahashi FSQ-106 EDX II, which has a focal length of 530. This is what I would be looking at in narrow band with the three cameras discussed above: the Atik 383, the Atik 428 and the Atik 460. Now, I do recognise that the noise is lower in the Sony chips, but having used 8300-based cameras extensively for a few years I would say that any reasonable sigma-based stacking algorithm will ditch that noise pretty well. Also note that I never bother with darks for my cameras (SBIG ST-8300M and QSI-683)!

Generally speaking, only the smaller narrow-band objects fit on the Sony chips, that is painfully obvious. You would be doing either mosaics or planetaries. Now the 8300 isn't the answer to the question of the meaning of everything (42), nor is it the swiss army knife of narrow band imaging, but it is a lot better at that specific field of astro imaging than the Sony chips.

For reference, with my Tak, the image scale with the 8300 is 2.1"/px, while the Sony chips clock in at 1.76"/px. Your numbers would be slightly higher and your field of view slightly larger as well.

I really do like the Sony chips in terms of pure performance, but in the real imaging scenarios that I envision they are simply not large enough. Luckily, I never went down the small chip road, although I was very, very close to doing so. I went from a Canon EOS 1000D without filters to an SBIG ST-8300M (not a camera I would recommend, though, but the QSI is super) and never looked back.

All the best,

/per