Is this true?

[DonBoy]

In a report on the Lodestar 1 vs. Lodestar X2 by Lorenzo Comolli he concludes with the following:

        "Is the Lodestar X2 worth the upgrade from Lodestar 1:
          Not really, because the image quality and sensor sensitivity are pretty much the same. The only real improvement over the older model is the better cable socket."

Article link:

http://www.astrosurf.com/comolli/strum60.htm

Don

[ronin]

Reading the information I suppose the conclusion is correct in some ways.

They have performed a small number of minor upgrades, but no more, equally that tends to be normal and no-one is really going to throw the Mk1 and get the Mk2 just because of the small changes.

However with the minor improvements would you rather buy the old model with the greater potential of leads falling out mid exposure?.

The price difference is after all minimum 510€ in 2011 to 543€now 2014/2015, sort of 3-4 years have passed. 33€ is not a lot and fractionally over 6% over the 4 years. That increase in price couild have easily occurred with none of the minor changes which do at least seem to be for a better product.

[shirva]

Great article don..

my thoughts. .

is more sensitive.. maybe not,

is it an upgrade. .yes.

is it worth the extra money for an upgrade, well it is astrophotography and we all know the manufacturer of these goods over charge for the gear.

will we still buy it..of course we will but as long as we can manufacturer and mod equipment to do near live video we will.

as long as guys like paul push for the advancement of the hobby and not for financial gain we should do ok..

im a firm believer that the manufacturers of these goods tap into the knowledge of the grass root astronomers on this forum and others to produce more of what we say we would like in x type of equipment. .

look at the research paul has put into ll and the testing and feedback from all the folk using ll..

of course we pay over the odds and manufacturing r&d it's a dog eat dog world for these companies. .if the camera specs are beaten by a rival two month later who pays the cost of making lodestar x2

[shirva]

Quite surprised nobody else has made any comments on this posting given quite a few use lodestar.the reason I write this because I have been looking at maybe buying one in the near future and if the facts from the comparison tests are correct it opens the question what one should I buy.. a bit of tape to hold a plug in on original or add a load more cash and get a fancy new plug for guiding..

[Martin Meredith]

Hi Shirva

The difficulty for many of us Lodestar users is that we don't own both so it is difficult to make a comparison. I came across the article a while back and didn't know what to make of it. I wouldn't focus on the plug (I have the older model and while I very occasionally lose the connection, it isn't something that bothers me with short exposures; someone spending all night guiding for AP might reasonably be annoyed though!)

The main change, as the authors cite, is surely the sensor:

• Sensor: updated from Sony ICX429 to ICX829. According to the Starlight Xpress website, the new sensor has "considerably improved QE and read noise. This new 'Exview 2' chip approximately doubles the Lodestar sensitivity and adds nearly a full star magnitude to the minimum guide star brightness". Also according to Sony (see the sensor datasheet) "the new products have approximately 6 dB greater sensitivity, a vast improvement over the existing ICX428AK/AL and ICX429AK/AL"

-- not a minor change in my opinion.

Their study certainly merits repetition. If there is anything we Lodestar users here (and elsewhere) can do to validate it I'd be interested in taking part.

As things stand, I'm very satisfied with my older colour version, supposedly the least sensitive of the options, since it already picks up objects in short exposures that don't appear on any of the regular maps (i.e., I have to resort to Aladin to find out what's in the field). But I'm considering getting the X2 mono for really deep work and based on the change of chip I'd be expecting some measurable benefits.

Martin

[Martin Meredith]

Just to add one more thing. The sky quality in their study was 19.2 (NELM 4.9) which is pretty average. I wonder if the X2 would perform better at a darker site; and whether it could reach the same SNR in shorter exposures under brighter skies? I don't know and would be interested to hear some opinions about this. Is the situation analogous to aperture in this sense i.e. the benefits are only really apparent when sky conditions are good?

Martin

[Paul81]

I'd probably get the X2 if I were starting from scratch, but owning the older Lodestar then the new version hasn't convinced me I need to upgrade. From peoples reports it seems to be more sensitive, but trying to quantify that is probably quite hard. A head to head comparison (same object, same optics, same night) would be very interesting!

[shirva]

Great replies guys..now this is what forums are about. .picking out the good and bad..we all know there isn't the perfect camera out there for all of av but the lodestar with lodestar live is getting close. .dont take what im saying as negative it's not im looking at it from a newbie prospective. .what camera do I buy with my hard earned cash..so when I saw the original post and no replies especially when the majority of the posts are about lodestar cameras..

great answer paul and I agree totaly with what you say..if buying first time get the best you can afford ..davy

[HiloDon]

Hi Davy,

I didn't post in this thread because I didn't think I had the knowledge to answer the OP's question. On your issue of which to buy, I was in that same position a few months back when I bought my first Lodestar. The price difference here is $50 US. I didn't even think about buying the old one. I hadn't seen the report when I bought mine, but Nytecam's experience with the X2 was positive and the issues with the guide port connector were well known. I think just resale value alone would make the X2 worthwhile. I think Martin and Paul have some good points. And, if Sony is right and the report is wrong, buying the X2 gives you twice the sensitivity. Don't know that you could go wrong paying the little extra for the new model whether it be X2 or X2c.

In any case, Davy, you are going to love the LS with LL.

Don

[nytecam]

I've always thought the internet/fora were rumour-mills where an opinion has equal status.  So be it especially if you use different gear. 

But for the record [again] I've all four Lodestars in regular use eg OSC plus mono - original for 5yrs [mono] and new duo from last year [2014] and I find under test I could effectively halve the brief exposures I use with the new cameras.  I could be just lucky I suppose.      

And yes the 'Lodestar reviewer' only found the new guider socket [which EAA doesn't need or use] an improvement

[shirva]

Great replies..this should help folk decide on original post..personally I would pay the extra..next dilemma colour or mono.. I love colour images but the feel you get from mono is special. .one of those feelings you cant put your finger on.

[shirva]

Cheers for the heads up Maurice

[Jagho]

Hi All,
My name is Jarek. I read this forum very often but this is my first post. Now I have to write a few words. I was using Lodestar mono and now I have Lodestar X2 mono. I use it for my supernova search project. I could reach 16.5 - 17 mag with old Lodestar and now 18-18.5 mag with new Lodestar X2 (45-60 s exposure, 8" Newton f/5). I've discovered PSN J22394901+3812500 using Lodestar X2. It's a briliant camera, much more sensitive than my old Lodestar.
So given my experience I absolutely disagree with Lorenzo Comolli conclusions.

Jarek
http://www.jgao.pl

[Martin Meredith]

Hi Jarek

Welcome to the forum! Now that's the kind of real experience I like to hear about. Those numbers make sense to me. At the limits of detection I occasionally exceed mag 18 with the older colour model with my 8" f/4 but usually after live stacking (typically total exposures of around 2-3 mins).

Congrats on the discovery and hope you post here more often.

Martin

[arkosg]

Jarek,

Thanks for the feedback!  As others have said, few of us have both models to do a direct "head-to-head", 

and given the differences between scopes, conditions, etc. it's hard to compare one user's experiences 

with another.... which is why it's nice to hear from people who have used both on the same gear, same 

skies.

Cheers!

- Greg A