Bolt loose in tube

[Burke]

Respectively, I did a search prior to starting yet another topic. I do not know how good the forum search tool is... does it search entire content of the forum threads or only a search of the topics. That being said most topics start with something about "Hello" , "Another newbie", "help", or about a specific scope - and none of my search key words came up with anything useful. So that is why my topic is "Bolt loose in tube" - because, simply put, that is exactly my problem. Yes - some of you want to know what kind of telescope it is because, I know... it is important too.

First background: I've never used it. It was given to me 3 years ago and has been in storage. I just recently took it out of the storage box to give to someone else and as I lifted it out of the box I heard a strange noise coming from inside. I found the culprit - a screw came loose and the bolt is sliding around inside the tube.

As a do-it-yourselfer I want to get the bolt out of the tube and back on the screw, in its correct place - and I want to do it right, myself. So any advice to "take it to a professional" will be ignored. I can repair cell phones, laptop and tabletop computers - it can't be that difficult to repair this thing.

I did some earlier research on this scope gifted to me. It is a "cheap" scope - nothing special. It's meant for beginners... which is one of the reasons I'm giving it to one (a beginner). But not with a loose bolt.

I uploaded a nice picture for you - circling the wayward screw and the hole. You'll just have to imagine the bolt rattling inside and cringing while it does so, right?

Oh, the scope type - I can be one of those ADHD squirrel personality types 

It is an Quantaray Star Series 600. I do not think any other technical info about the scope or lens will be relevant to fix it.

Thanks in advance for any useful assistance.

[Merlin66]

Welcome to SGL!

It looks like one of those fiddly jobs...

Either the mirror cell should(?) come off - may be just screwed onto the tube?

or getting in through the focuser, remove the nut, then try to position it under the hold with a piece of wire/ Blutack???

[Burke]

Welcome to SGL!

It looks like one of those fiddly jobs...

Either the mirror cell should(?) come off - may be just screwed onto the tube?

or getting in through the focuser, remove the nut, then try to position it under the hold with a piece of wire/ Blutack???

Fiddly - I'm sure, yes. Which end is the mirror cell? The opposite end I'm guessing? The end in my picture is the lens end (in case it is hard to tell). All the screws around the lens end are the same as this one screw - inside, it stays in place with a bolt. I don't want to remove 2 more screws just to have the bolts floating around in the tube doing the same thing.

If I "screw" the screw onto the tube it comes back out - the bolt rolling around inside is required to hold the screw in place (I had an "ah-ha" moment coming to this conclusion) - haha. 

The other end - I guess is the end with the mirror cell - it has a "cap" screwed on with 3 more screws then there are 3 more screws around the circumference of the tube. I could remove the cap - but will I be able to "reach" inside the tube to hold the bolt in place?

I have examined it as much as I can without just unscrewing a bunch of stuff (I don't want to hurt it!) and it looks like I could - possibly - get to it by removing the focuser.

I did remove the "finder scope" later realizing it does not lead me into the tube (I'm learning).

I suppose I could remove the lens itself??? There's a center screw and 3 other screws around the edge of the lens.

I do not know if the focuser screws are also held in place by bolts - it actually seems NOT logically possible for all the screws to be bolted from the inside.

I just do not know the best entry point.

So, I'm gong to remove the focuser later and see what happens! I'm fairly certain I can hold the bolt in position under the screw hole with my long skinny fingers!  I don't want to "mess" with the mirror cell or lens if unnecessary. Wish me luck.

Any tips on cleaning it? Poor thing is dirty

Thank you for responding.

PS - If I sound confusing because I'm not familiar with all the terminology I posted a picture of the whole scope to my profile. The photo file size was too big to attach to the thread here.  

[ollypenrice]

The make is a re-brand name and not very helpful. I certainly don't know it. Could you give us some wider shots from different angles so we can see what kind of scope it is?

Cheers,

Olly

[Charic]

On my Skyliner, the Mirror cell  has several screws that hold the mirror cell assembly to the optical tube. These screws are not held inside with any captive nut. You may be able to undo the mirror cell on your telescope, looking at your gallery images?

Not sure about being able to reach inside to hold the loose captive nut in place whilst you replace the screw at the other end. My telescope is hollow tubed, your CAT might have mirrors /plates in the way, hindering access.

You also mention "  It is a "cheap" scope - nothing special. It's meant for beginners..." maybe do this person a favour and encourage them to get something better, that's if you can't fix the situation?

[John]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Identifying the scope is important so you get correct advice about how to sort the issue. There are many different designs around you see.

Is your scope the one that is covered by the review in this link ?

http://www.astromart.com/articles/article.asp?article_id=441

If so, you will need to remove the optical glass window at the front end of the scope. The screws to do this are the ones that face forward. They should loosen a ring which in turn holds the optical window in place. Make of note of it's orientation as it needs to go back in exactly the same way.

Once you have removed the optical window you should be able to tip the nut out of the tube and replace the missing screw and nut. Then reverse the procedure to replace the optical window.

[Scott]

You sound like you can turn your hand to anything. perhaps a search in youtube may be a help. just curious though is it a nut or a bolt thats loose? I'm having a hard time working out how a bolt and screw go together

[John]

PS: Don't touch any screws in the central boss of the optical window as they will affect the optical alignment of the mirrors in the scope and you don't want to start playing with that.

[Charic]

John........theres an image in his gallery showing those outer screws!

[John]

John........theres an image in his gallery showing those outer screws!

Similar to the one in the link I found then although shorter and with less aperture. My advice on dealing with the issue would be the same.

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi 'Burke' and welcome to SGL.

Sounds to me if the thread has been stripped on the tube. Can you remove the other screws and possibly re-tap it/them and replace them with the next size up? (just be careful of swarf entering anywhere near the primary objective cell or primary mirror cell if it is short tube reflector), or replace it/them with a short self-tapping screw? It may affect the optical performance once completed, as you may affect the 'final' positioning of the optical alignment in/of the lightpath.

The make is a re-brand name and not very helpful. I certainly don't know it. Could you give us some wider shots from different angles so we can see what kind of scope it is?

Cheers,

Olly

It is difficult at this stage without seeing other photo's of the complete OTA to suggest a permanent solution.

Just my 2p/2cents worth...

[Charic]

.....have you checked his gallery?

[RT65CB-SWL]

.....have you checked his gallery?

...just seen it   thank you 'Charic'    

[Charic]

....one of the ends should come away, the screws hopefully  not being captive from behind.  This would allow access!

[John]

....one of the ends should come away, the screws hopefully  not being captive from behind.  This would allow access!

My advice is based on owning one of the scopes pictured in Burke's photos (now I've seen them), albeit with different branding, and having to perform the same task

You can get into the scope from either end though but replacing the screw / nut that have fallen out will only be possible if the access is made though the front end.

Its the same scope as this one:

http://www.seeviewo.org/seeview/observatory/sh_newt.htm

[Tim]

.....have you checked his gallery?

Yep, it says "he" is a "she".

Burke, do you not know any guys who could do it for you?

I jest of course.  After studying the pics I would try romoving the focuser as Merlin suggested, keeping your finger if possible on the back of the screws you undo to prevent any more nuts falling off into the tube.

Then carefully, if you can reach inside with a finger and the scope laying flat so that nothing drops on to the mirror, try to do a dry run tightening that loose bolt into the loose nut. Sometimes they are spot welded onto the inside of the tube but the weld is weak and can be broken by overtightening.

If you can manage to do this successfully, then it may be worth applying a little threadlock so that it doesn't come loose again.

As for cleaning, the outside should come up ok, but how is the mirror?

if it is REALLY bad, then maybe a little extra surgery is required, here's the way a doctor recommends

Hope that is useful in some way, if not feel free to ignore.

Regards

SQL

[Peter Drew]

Follow John's advice, it is the correct procedure. 

[Charic]

Cheers Tim......  oops!........ my bad, Sorry  Burke, 

[Burke]

The make is a re-brand name and not very helpful. I certainly don't know it. Could you give us some wider shots from different angles so we can see what kind of scope it is?

Cheers,

Olly

Upon further investigation it is a "TOWA". A little inconspicuous sticker popped-up (NO.3- 16546 // PAT.P.NO.55- 173314) That should help.

[Burke]

On my Skyliner, the Mirror cell  has several screws that hold the mirror cell assembly to the optical tube. These screws are not held inside with any captive nut. You may be able to undo the mirror cell on your telescope, looking at your gallery images?

Not sure about being able to reach inside to hold the loose captive nut in place whilst you replace the screw at the other end. My telescope is hollow tubed, your CAT might have mirrors /plates in the way, hindering access.

You also mention "  It is a "cheap" scope - nothing special. It's meant for beginners..." maybe do this person a favour and encourage them to get something better, that's if you can't fix the situation?

Thank you for your response. I did find out the eye piece is held on by more internal bolts! Meh. So I ended up having to remove the mirror and retrieve 2 runaway bolts!

[Burke]

You sound like you can turn your hand to anything. perhaps a search in youtube may be a help. just curious though is it a nut or a bolt thats loose? I'm having a hard time working out how a bolt and screw go together

Oh, yes! I got the chance to laugh at myself. I really can't quite picture that myself either. Thank you for pointing out my mix-up. To clarify it is a nut - a loose nut.

[Burke]

My advice is based on owning one of the scopes pictured in Burke's photos (now I've seen them), albeit with different branding, and having to perform the same task

 

You can get into the scope from either end though but replacing the screw / nut that have fallen out will only be possible if the access is made though the front end.

 

Its the same scope as this one:

 

http://www.seeviewo.org/seeview/observatory/sh_newt.htm

Yes, this is my scope in this link. First I tried to remove the lens end. I got one screw out and the heads of 2 striped so I decided to abandon that... They are in there so tight. I turned my attention to the mirror cell end. Came off without any problems. I was able to retrieve my wayward nuts and put them back in their places.

[Charic]

Burke by name, not by nature! Its a big learning  curve when dealing with telescopes, but you must be happier now, knowing how to access the internals, should the situation ever arise again, although next time  with caution?

Its usually one of the ends that will come away happily without any loss of the fittings.

well done anyway.

[Burke]

Yep, it says "he" is a "she".

 

Burke, do you not know any guys who could do it for you?

 

 

 

I jest of course.  After studying the pics I would try romoving the focuser as Merlin suggested, keeping your finger if possible on the back of the screws you undo to prevent any more nuts falling off into the tube.

 

Then carefully, if you can reach inside with a finger and the scope laying flat so that nothing drops on to the mirror, try to do a dry run tightening that loose bolt into the loose nut. Sometimes they are spot welded onto the inside of the tube but the weld is weak and can be broken by overtightening.

 

If you can manage to do this successfully, then it may be worth applying a little threadlock so that it doesn't come loose again.

 

 

As for cleaning, the outside should come up ok, but how is the mirror?

 

if it is REALLY bad, then maybe a little extra surgery is required, here's the way a doctor recommends

 

 

Hope that is useful in some way, if not feel free to ignore.

 

Regards

 

SQL

You 'jest' too kindly Thank you for your response. I was able to recover the wayward nuts. Yes, it turned form one to two... the eyepiece was held on with more internal nuts so I had to remove the mirror cell instead. I did use thread lock. I did not want that to happen again... Thank you for the cleaning suggestions. I'm going to complete the cleaning this weekend. It is going to it's new home this week! They will be excited. But, now that I've spent so much time with it these past weeks I might miss it a bit. I have always been a lover of the stars.

[Burke]

Yes, I'm a "she" not a "he". Burke is my last name. No worries.

Thank you everyone for your input. The new family is under "difficult times". They are in their 50's and down to one income as she has been unable to work since being diagnosed with Trigeminal neuralgia (known as the "suicide disease"). They went to a star-gazing event last year for their 6 year anniversary and fell in love with it. But it is difficult for her to "get out" most the time. Instead of encouraging them to get a "better" one I am gifting them this "old" free one! I know they will value it greatly. They can replace the worries of money and health problems with the wonder of the stars as often as they would like - everyone here agrees that just makes life better, right?