Cheep Chesire and Barlow?

[TK421]

Yes I`m a northerner and don't like "t b parted from me ard urned cash lad" add that to the fact that with the best will in the world I'm not going to get out every night and us my equipment. Is it worth getting cheep functional stuff, like a Chesire or a Barlow? I know I`m going have to spend some cash when I get around to EP`s, if I need them but for now I will need a Chesire and may be a Barlow.

For a Chesire from eBay its £18 vs. £29 from FLO, yes I am that tight and that's £11 towards a Barlow.

Link to the Chesire below, haven't a clue were to get a good cheep Barlow from ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/121276569151?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0

I know that I will get the usual “you get what you pay for” ramblings but I don’t need and Austin Martin I need a Ford Ka. I will do the job but with out all the fuss. 

Cheers Brian.

[AlexB67]

Hi,

There is nothing wrong with the one you pointed out, you find it may be a bit harder to look through than the longer one though from FLO. I own both so know how they compare in use and find the longer one easier to work with, but for my smaller scope I find the shorty better. With the shorty it does not to be an uncommon issue that it is trickier to see and focus on the cross hairs though.  Both my missus and I find it tricky to focus on the cross hairs, but we both wear glasses. That said I still find the short one a useful tool for various reasons, though the long one I find more comfortable to use and look through.

If I were you, I would by it from here, if it the same one the seller will usually price match if it is believed to same.  Should you find it unusable you can return it. Looking at pics it does look slightly different, but you could ask. Alan is a reliable astro seller with excellent reputation.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skys-the-Limit-Cheshire-Collimator-for-Newtonian-Telescopes-short-/380873311843?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item58add18663

If you are really stuck for cash instead of buying new I would have a look here for second hand items

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/

You did not specify the scope, but with the cheap cap as sold here, for not very fast scopes  like around f/5, in my experience for visual use they can perform collimation really well to the point you'd struggle to see the difference in results in both my scopes. The most important aspect is the alignment of the primary mirror with respect to the secondary, the cap can do that perfectly well.  It will only set you back a fiver

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/rigel-aline-collimation-cap.html

you can even make one from a film canister, but who owns those things these days ??  It is still the old tip you often hear though 

[Schorhr]

+1 for the collimation cap, I like my (long-ish) cheshire though. For a longer telescope tube, a laser is great though, but only a decent one that can cost 70-80£.

As for barlow, www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Achromatische-Barlow-Linse-BA2-2x-fur-Teleskope-31-7mm-/200607942106?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Okulare&hash=item2eb52a45da , probably identical to the "brand name" ones that most likely come from the same factory. Cheaper if you order at Seben or Amazon with more of their stuff to save postage.

A good barlow will cost more then two or three decent entry level eyepieces, such as http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/wide-angle-eyepiece-1-25inches-66-degree-F-6mm-/140717462903

[David Smith]

Collimation cap is good, was the only thing I used for a couple of years until I splashed out £30 on a laser coli. Personally I still struggle with Cheshires.

[TK421]

My scope is a Heritage 130p, its an  f/5.

So I might go with the cap. I had see it on FLO but  dismissed it as I couldn't find specific instructions on what to do with it. Doing lot of reading about collimation so I should become clear, with a bit of luck, it all sound very confusing at the moment. My scope was checked before it got sent to me so I might be OK at moment.   I do have a few film cap around but they are all oval in shape from the old (ish) wide angle point and shot cameras. 

I will probably not get the Barlow or any EP`s after reading the sticky on EP`s in the Getting Started section and spend some time using the 10 and 25mm that came with the scope for now. 

Thanks Brian.

[todd8137]

Ask your self this would you rather walk round town in flip flops or trainers when it raining the Cheshire looks small to me I have the flow one ,it's brill I have dropped it ,it's rolled around in a car ,have left it out in the rain frost and snow and it's never broke or parts bents dings ect ,you did mention eps ect but save that little bit extra do not be in a rush and just on the Yorkshire boarder and if a no any thing just like any hobby ect,you pay for what ya get

On the other hand if you do get the other one full report to follow on quiality and how it works because a can tell ya the FLO one as never let me down yet .

Good luck with your purchase

Pat

Ps I also have the cap from FLO great bit of kit comes with instructions and it's silver underneath

[TK421]

Ask your self this would you rather walk round town in flip flops or trainers when it raining, 

That made me laugh as I live in my  shorts and flip flops, in the rain and snow some times.

[Schorhr]

The 10mm isn't paericularly good, combiniñ a mediocre eyepiece with a cheap achromatic barlow the results are mixed.

The 6mm UWA eyepiece mentioned has a larger eye relief then the shorter Plössl eyepieces and by increasing the distance of the bottom lens (with a film can) you can increase the magnification and figure out what works with your telescope (mirror quality, seeing conditions...)

http://blog.pixelgiraffe.com/?p=820

For the heritage I rarely ever e the 2x barlow, it's easier to handle eyepieces as the focus change is not as drastic.

But either way can work :-)

[TK421]

Do you think I should be looking at replacing the 10mm with the 6mm UWA EP. Do you know what dose UWA stands for?

Looks like a 6mm is what I would end up getting at some point and if the 10 is no good and a cheep Barlow is questionable I might as well get the 6mm. Planetary views are were I wanted to start and tinkering is one of my most favorite past times so making stuff is right up my street.Thanks for that link.

Cheers Brian.

[AlexB67]

UWA stands for ultra wide angle, as such the eyepiece is not really ultra wide, just advertising talk that you often see attached to those eyepieces. In truth  they are more like SWA or super wide. In any case that series  of eyepieces offers 66 degrees versus the stock eyepieces which are around 52 degrees, that's all that's important. The eye relief is generous too and it is comfortable to use. Considering the cost the 66 degrees is very generous.

I have the 6mm SWA myself still and while it has been upgraded now it served me well in that scope, and for sure gave superior views to the stock 10mm in a cheap barlow.  I recall well that M13 in that eyepiece in the same scope gave me some good views, good bang for buck    

[Owmuchonomy]

Do you think I should be looking at replacing the 10mm with the 6mm UWA EP. Do you know what dose UWA stands for?

Looks like a 6mm is what I would end up getting at some point and if the 10 is no good and a cheep Barlow is questionable I might as well get the 6mm. Planetary views are were I wanted to start and tinkering is one of my most favorite past times so making stuff is right up my street.Thanks for that link.

Cheers Brian.

The option I chose was to go for a 8mm Baader Hyperion with two FTRs (fine tuning rings). This effectively gives you an 8mm, 6mm, 5mm and 4.3mm EP in one. In my scopes this gives me a range of 90x to nearly 500x. Great for planets although you will rarely get up to 300x in this country. I can also attach my DSLR directly to the EP.

[Schorhr]

Some links I posted the other day by the way, showing the Meade/Bresser 3x achromatic Barlow (20€) and Orbinar/Seben 2x axhromatic barlow (13.50€).

A bit over exposed as the camera is not good for planetary imaging;

3x achromatic barlow

http://blog.pixelgiraffe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Capture-12.03.2014-22_50_23_highRes.jpg

http://blog.pixelgiraffe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Capture-12.03.2014-22_54_37_highRes.jpg

2x achromatic barlow

http://blog.pixelgiraffe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/mond-24544534.jpg

http://blog.pixelgiraffe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Capture-12.03.2014-22_33_36_highRes.jpg

better in comparison but still chromatic aberration

Directly no barlow

http://blog.pixelgiraffe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/jupi-monde.jpg

(Cam from Phil Dyer/Astrophoto.co.uk on Heritage 130p, no tracking)

The blue and red color fringe from the chromatic aberration is very visible with the 3x, less yet visible with the 2x. This limits contrast.

Regarding field of view, apparent field of view, you can set up your eyepieces and telescope in Stellarium or look that up at 12dstring (on small screens it seems like the images get scaled, so apparent field of view simulation may not look that different on first sight)

Or look at the small sample I once made, http://blog.pixelgiraffe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/fieldcompare.jpg

12dstring comparison

40mm Plössl with 52 degree apparent field of view with 1500mm focal length

http://www.12dstring.me.uk/foveyepiece.php?efl=40&afov=43&eyepiece=Orion+Sirius+Plossl+40mm&aperture=130&flength=1500&barlow=1&day=31&month=5&year=2013&object=31

 

32mm Plössl with 52 degree apparent field of view with 1500mm focal length

http://www.12dstring.me.uk/foveyepiece.php?efl=32&afov=52&eyepiece=Revelation+Plossl+32mm&aperture=130&flength=1500&barlow=1&day=31&month=5&year=2013&object=31

As you can see they show about the same, the 32mm has higher magnification but wider field.

The exit pupil at f/4 is still large but won't be as bad as with the 40mm.

 

Now the moon witg a 130mm with 650mm focal length and different 6mm eyepieces

 

6mm Kellner kit eyepiece 40deg http://www.12dstring.me.uk/foveyepiece.php?aperture=130&flength=650&barlow=1&efl=6&afov=40&day=31&month=5&year=2013&object=moon

6mm Plössl 52 deg http://www.12dstring.me.uk/foveyepiece.php?aperture=130&flength=650&barlow=1&efl=6&afov=52&day=31&month=5&year=2013&object=moon

6mm UWA 66 deg http://www.12dstring.me.uk/foveyepiece.php?aperture=130&flength=650&barlow=1&efl=6&afov=66&day=31&month=5&year=2013&object=moon

 

As you can see the moon will fit completely into view with the wide angle 6mm at the 650mm focal length of the telescope.

It is more evident in Stellarium where you can set up telescope and eyepieces, and the field of view does not get scaled to fit as it is in the browser.

[TK421]

The option I chose was to go for a 8mm Baader Hyperion with two FTRs (fine tuning rings). This effectively gives you an 8mm, 6mm, 5mm and 4.3mm EP in one. In my scopes this gives me a range of 90x to nearly 500x. Great for planets although you will rarely get up to 300x in this country. I can also attach my DSLR directly to the EP.

That is a very nice bit of kit but way out of my price range at the moment, my scope was only £70 may when I get a a skyliner 400p   

Scchorhe

 That is some very impressive information I'm not quite sure I understand it all at the moment but love the pic of the moon with the 6mm UWA.  Did you use the 130mm  scope for the pictures using the 2x archromatic barlow as well? They are much better views than I expected to see, what sort a EP would I need to use you get similar?

 

I feel like I'm learning so much my head is going to pop.

 

Thanks for your help

 

 Brian.

[Schorhr]

Hello Brian,

sorry If it was too technical, some was pasted from another thread. If any Term or explanation needs explanation, just ask :-)

The camera itself, attached to the telescope directly (as in: no eyepiece) shows a field about equivalent to a 6mm Plössl (52 degree apparent field of view). So a ~3mm eyepiece would give you similar views. Only with good seeing, a decent mirror and so on.

In the 6mm 66degree eyepiece, you will see the moon at 108x (already verrrry nice) and it just fits into the field of view.

To get an equivalent of the image you would have to either elongate the 6mm66deg (as described in my quick write up with the film can, with downsides) or get a HR Planetary 3,2mm.

Those (or the better BST explorer, TS NED) cost 40£-55£, sharper outer field at an aperture ratio of f/5, but show a bit less apparent field (58-60degree) then the 66degree eyepieces.

Here they are a bit cheaper http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm?itemId=130897357050

But not available in all focal lengths. The 2.5mm is even cheaper, but due to the production quality of the Heritage mirrors, 260x will not be usefull with most mirrors (and due to seeing conditions not every day in general).

This is why I find the 6mm66deg a good starter eyepiece to add to the kit eyepieces. You are on the safe side, mirror quality wise, and you can elongeate the tube to see if 3-4mm eyepieces would work with your Heritage130p. Getting into focus can be tricky, but due to the Flextube mechanism or with a bit longer tube you should be able to do it, I used it often and I was suprised by it's performance compared to the 3,2mm hr planetary...

For Planets, 130-150x and up is very nice, 200x if the mirror can handle that.

There are 4mm Plössl (7£ or so from Seben), but their Eye Relief is way too short, making it hard to look through, and your eyelashes will grease the lens. The

This is why Barlows where/are so popular, but modern eyepiece designs work well without a barlow, still giving plenty of eye relief.

Some find the 6mm plössl still usable, for myself, I draw the line at 9-10mm.

But if you are on a budget, you can also order the 6mm66deg in China (24€/~20£), I am not aware about the tax / duty free regulations in your country.

Here it is 22€ or actually 26€ as they don't collect fees under 5€.

OF COURSE you could just get the barlow, at under 14€ plus shipping (or the more expensive deal at eBay with "free" shipping) it does not break the bank, perhaps order at seben directly and ad a 20mm 70deg or the 30mm Plössl (unfortunately theirs has no eyecup, foam pipe isolation helps) for a larger field of view.

You will (probably) upgrade a lot over the years though, the 6mm66deg is overall the Better deal. In the end, it's up to you :-)

Have fun

[TK421]

Thanks for all your help schorhr, plenty to think on. I am definitely going to have a go at the 35mm film can thing and like the idea of the 6mm 66deg EP so might start at that and may try so of the other choices when winter comes around.

Thank Brian.

[Schorhr]

Hello Brian,

Sounds like a plan, keep us posted ;-)

[hazegood]

My scope is a Heritage 130p, its an  f/5.

So I might go with the cap. I had see it on FLO but  dismissed it as I couldn't find specific instructions on what to do with it. Doing lot of reading about collimation so I should become clear, with a bit of luck, it all sound very confusing at the moment. My scope was checked before it got sent to me so I might be OK at moment.   I do have a few film cap around but they are all oval in shape from the old (ish) wide angle point and shot cameras. 

I will probably not get the Barlow or any EP`s after reading the sticky on EP`s in the Getting Started section and spend some time using the 10 and 25mm that came with the scope for now. 

Thanks Brian.

As you live in Keighley pop into the camera shop on Cavendish Street,  the old fashioned place, ask the guy if he has a couple of 35mm fil canisters you could buy (hint he has 100s of them - and wont charge you, well he didn't when I aksed for a couple) they are they white / clear plastic ones thiough so you would have to tape or paint them

Leigh

(I work in Keighley and know the shop very well)

[TK421]

As you live in Keighley pop into the camera shop on Cavendish Street,  the old fashioned place, ask the guy if he has a couple of 35mm fil canisters you could buy (hint he has 100s of them - and wont charge you, well he didn't when I aksed for a couple) they are they white / clear plastic ones thiough so you would have to tape or paint them

Leigh

(I work in Keighley and know the shop very well)

Cheers for that, will do.

Brian.