Is there such a thing as a good 4x to 6x Astro binocular?

[Chris]

Hi folks, After reading about the new VIxen 2.1x42 binoculars now available at FLO (see link below):

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-binoculars/vixen-sg21x42-widefield-binoculars.html

This got me thinking, is there such a thing as a good 4 to 6x Astronomy binocular? I'm guessing the aperture would be around 30-40mm, any more and the exist pupil gets to big even for young eyes.

I've had a quick look around on the net and at this mag its mostly 7 pound kids binos which I'm sure would be thumbs down for astro use

The Vixen 2.1x42 look like qaulity kit but perhaps a step too far for many? however I can imagine something like a quality 5x30 bino would be a good compromise and good for low shake and strain hand held use.

Chris

[ronin]

Sure I have read of a 6x, but about 2 or 3 years ago and cannot recall who produced it.

I was half interested but stuck with the 8x42's.

You can get monoculars at that mag but they are not as comfortable/easy to use.

[Chris]

Thanks ronin   I'll do a bit more digging, definately would be iterested in a bino rather than a monocular though.

Cheers

Chris

[ronin]

Vortex do a 6x32 in the Viper HD line.

They tend to be good binocular manufacturers.

Also a 6.5x32 in the Raptor, seems there used to be a Fury but not listed on the Vortex site now.

Another is the Leupold Katmai 6x32.

The Viper seems to come out the best.

Bushnell Natureview comes in a 6x31, it is the "older" porro prism. I have the roof prism 8x42 and they are good, but in effect a somewhat different binocular.

Bushnell also do an odd looking set of 4x30's. Under the Spectator name.

[Chris]

Cheers Ronin got to agree about the oddness of the 4x30's:

http://www.bushnell.com/all-products/binoculars/spectator/4x-30mm

They are odd but I guess no more unusual than the new Vixens. I could see them being worth a bash for low power astronomy if they didn't have a thing called Permafocus which I gather means there is no way of physically adjusting the focus. The blurb states that this is only a problem at short distance but not sure if they have considered focus at infinity or how focus would even work for different people? 

The Bushnell Natureview 6x31 where the ones I also came across since posting, they look good on paper for the money: Bak4, fog proof, compact and light etc...

The Vortex vipers are steap money wise arn't they! I'll have a look for the Leupold they sound interesting

Chris

[BinocularSky]

I have a 6.5x32 - nice bit of kit!

On the batphone, so expect weird autocorrect

[Chris]

I have a 6.5x32 - nice bit of kit!

On the batphone, so expect weird autocorrect

Are these the Vortex Raptor that Ronin mentioned if so they should be good they cost enough! I'm thinking more like sub 100 quid if I bought a pair

I've been doing a fair bit of trawling around on the net now and I'm definately seeing that the good quality bins only go down to 6x then its generally cheap 5x kids binos for a few quida pop. I'm liking the Bushnell Natureview 6x30's at around 85 quid so fair

I'm basically looking for a middle ground between the new 2.1x42 Vixen "Goggles" and my vintage 7x50's which are quite large but can be held quite steady due to the low mag. If I can find such a thing with optics suitable for astro then I may well give them a go

Chris 

[IanWatkins]

I feel your pain. For years I've been after the super goggles but everything in the x2 - x6 range has been garbage, or plastic and mainly both.

If you can, try the Vixens, they are lovely, but might not suit everyone. Otherwise I'm afraid you are into the x8 range which I feel is missing the point of the Vixens but not powerful enough to be useful for real detail. Tough one.

As always, nothing suits everyone for every condition. The day they bring binos out for looking at the green woodpeckers at the top of my garden, for scanning the Milky Way, to look for enemy aircraft, to look at detailed sunspots and view individual stars in M31, I'll be writing a cheque.

Cheers

Ian

[BinocularSky]

Are these the Vortex Raptor that Ronin mentioned if so they should be good they cost enough! I'm thinking more like sub 100 quid if I bought a pair

Yes, it is the Vortex Raptor, and they were sub-100 quid. [emoji1]

On the batphone, so expect weird autocorrect

[Chris]

I feel your pain. For years I've been after the super goggles but everything in the x2 - x6 range has been garbage, or plastic and mainly both.

If you can, try the Vixens, they are lovely, but might not suit everyone. Otherwise I'm afraid you are into the x8 range which I feel is missing the point of the Vixens but not powerful enough to be useful for real detail. Tough one.

As always, nothing suits everyone for every condition. The day they bring binos out for looking at the green woodpeckers at the top of my garden, for scanning the Milky Way, to look for enemy aircraft, to look at detailed sunspots and view individual stars in M31, I'll be writing a cheque.

Cheers

Ian

These Vixen "Goggles" plus your review are responsible for me thinking about the whole 4-6x no mans land Ian (Very nice review by the way ) 

If you've been on the search for suitable 2x to 6x bins for years and have concluded that the 4-6x range falls in a no mans land of not being one thing or the other than I should pay attention to this. Maybe I should just upgrade my old vintage 7x50 Instafocus with something more compact and with better focus instead of looking to fill the gap you have already researched? or maybe I should take a punt on the outskirts of you findings and try 6x or even the 2x Vixens? Hmmm decisions

I think the Bins you are waiting to write a cheque for are the fabbled zoom bins of good quality which I saddly don't think exist yet

Chris     

[Chris]

Crikey that sounds more like it I'm sure I read 300 odd quid but maybe that was the HD ones? I'll do another search thanks

Chris

EDIT: yep 89 quid! I'll have to read some reviews of them 6.5x32's over the weekend

[Psychobilly]

I enjoy using my Viking 6.5x32 MD's for Astro - Ironically they were bought for "bug" work as they focus down to 3 feet...

I got mine at the Rutland birdfair last year wher Viking had 5 pairs reduced from £240 to £99 - I had that pair nicked a few weeks ago and had to pay £124 to replace them from an ebay seller some retailers are still asking £200+ for them so it's worth shopping around...

Peter...

[Joves]

Kowa do a 6x30 porro prism binocular. No idea what they're like, but at AU$179, you'd want them to be at least semi ok.

[pete_gamby]

There is a 6x30 porro prism binocular platform that was originally developed for Leupold as the Yosemite and specifically made to be suitable for kids - wide, easy action focus wheel and small minimum inter-pupillary distance.

That platform is now available from a number of suppliers - Kowa YF series, Bushnell Natureview, Leupold BX-1 Yosemite, Opticron Savanna WP, Vortex Raptor, Eagle Optics Kingbird etc. although some of these are 6.5x32 rather than 6x30.

The factory code for the original platform was JRB which apparently stands for John Riutta Binocular after the Leupold product manager that commissioned the design. John now writes about optics rather than selling them for a living.

HTH

Cheers, Pete

[Chris]

I enjoy using my Viking 6.5x32 MD's for Astro - Ironically they were bought for "bug" work as they focus down to 3 feet...

I got mine at the Rutland birdfair last year wher Viking had 5 pairs reduced from £240 to £99 - I had that pair nicked a few weeks ago and had to pay £124 to replace them from an ebay seller some retailers are still asking £200+ for them so it's worth shopping around...

Peter...

Hi Peter, great buy! sorry to hear they got pinched thats terrible, I hope karma happens to the low life who took them!

I'll definately shop around thanks for the advice

[Chris]

Kowa do a 6x30 porro prism binocular. No idea what they're like, but at AU$179, you'd want them to be at least semi ok.

Thanks Jove, thats the kind of price I'm thinking, and yes I would want them to be pretty good for that money to be honest

[Psychobilly]

Hi Peter, great buy! sorry to hear they got pinched thats terrible, I hope karma happens to the low life who took them!

I'll definately shop around thanks for the advice

It was a choice  between the 5D MK III , 600/f4L, 1.4x Extender II and Gitzo 5542LS  or the £99 bins  so "cost" wise it was a no brainer... Obviously I would have preferred neither to have been "interfered" with but the "group" used interfering with the camera as a distraction to lift the bins out of the back of the disco...

The Vikings are roof prisms - I think they are a discontinued mode now -  I went for them for the amazing close focus performance as I couldn't get on with Papillions...

Having spent about an hour looking through various bins are going to be  Delta SL3 8x42's  as a lightweight replacement for my Hawke Prostalk 8x56's

Peter...

[Chris]

There is a 6x30 porro prism binocular platform that was originally developed for Leupold as the Yosemite and specifically made to be suitable for kids - wide, easy action focus wheel and small minimum inter-pupillary distance.

That platform is now available from a number of suppliers - Kowa YF series, Bushnell Natureview, Leupold BX-1 Yosemite, Opticron Savanna WP, Vortex Raptor, Eagle Optics Kingbird etc. although some of these are 6.5x32 rather than 6x30.

The factory code for the original platform was JRB which apparently stands for John Riutta Binocular after the Leupold product manager that commissioned the design. John now writes about optics rather than selling them for a living.

HTH

Cheers, Pete

Thanks Pete very informative! So, pretty much all the aforementioned 6x30 and 6.5x32's are practically the same spec therefore its just a case of which is the most aesthetically pleasing and cost effective.

Thats very good info to know Pete, thank you!

Its been a good payday so I think I will sell my old 7x50 instafocus BK7's and treat myself to something a bit more compact and higher spec out the the aforementioned

Chris

[Chris]

It was a choice  between the 5D MK III , 600/f4L, 1.4x Extender II and Gitzo 5542LS  or the £99 bins  so "cost" wise it was a no brainer... Obviously I would have preferred neither to have been "interfered" with but the "group" used interfering with the camera as a distraction to lift the bins out of the back of the disco...

The Vikings are roof prisms - I think they are a discontinued mode now -  I went for them for the amazing close focus performance as I couldn't get on with Papillions...

Having spent about an hour looking through various bins are going to be  Delta SL3 8x42's  as a lightweight replacement for my Hawke Prostalk 8x56's

Peter...

Sounds like they were well organised tea leafs! yes defo made the right choice, I would probably be depressed for a long long time if someone pinched a 5D camera kit and with very high end lens from me!

It sounds like your a fan of many natural sciences not just Astro so you probably get more use from your kit than some of us waiting for clouds to clear, even more important that you keep hold of it I've been tempted to look at a bit of birding, I do like birds but know squat about them so its something new to learn whilst the clouds are about. Having said this there is not much birding to be done in our garden with the neighbours having 4 cats! and thats not the only problem with them having 4 cats when you look at our lawn some times, grrrrr!

Chris

[Psychobilly]

If you can get to try the bins before you buy... What suits one person might not suit another...

We still have a decent "camera" shop in Carmarthen about 30 mile away that stocks Bins from £30-£2k.. and are happy to let you spend time checking out the different models.. We also get a regular visit by InFocus to the WWT reserve and Keith is happy to spend time going through the range of bins they carry with you....

I must admit I have drifted from dusk to dawn Astro to pre-dawn to dusk Wildlife over the last few years... and I am then to tired to do the former...

Peter...

[BinocularSky]

EDIT: yep 89 quid! I'll have to read some reviews of them 6.5x32's over the weekend

Here's mine: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/204416-vortex-raptor-65x32/#entry2166034

[Chris]

Thanks Steve I enjoyed reading that Mostly it sounds positive for what I would want a pair for, i.e. slighlty different perspective to other bins whilst being very hand held friendly and compact. Just a couple of worries with the very rocky eyepiece bridge and not being able to rest your eyes on the eyecups unless you wear glasses. I must admit when I'm using my 10.5x70 BA8's I tend to lay on my lounger with them pretty much resting on my eye sockets! I might have to stop this method if I notice my eyes starting to sink into the back of my head

[Chris]

I know Ian has looked into the 2x to 6x binos for quite some time by the sounds of it in the search for anything in this range even vaguely suitable for astro, I'm just wondering if he came across these:

http://www.monkoptics.co.uk/Compacts/4x22_6x30_extra_wide_angle.html

http://forum.popastro.com/viewtopic.php?t=16823

They look promising on paper!

5.5mm exit pupil

17 degrees

Bak4 Prisms

and quite interestingly a model with individual eye focusing!

[TheMightyKong]

Miyauchi make the 2.1x42 for vixen.

They used to make a 5x30 "binon". Who knows, if the vixens sell very well perhaps they'll release others?

[Chris]

Miyauchi make the 2.1x42 for vixen.

They used to make a 5x30 "binon". Who knows, if the vixens sell very well perhaps they'll release others?

Lets hope so that would be great if they did I did find an old pair of second world war 6x30's in the cupboard, they are way out of collimation so if I manage to get them sorted I might use them to give me some idea of what a better pair would be like. These wont be great as the optics are a bit mucky internally and there is a scale on the optics which I'm guessing is for working out how far the enemy was?