Newbie help with Jupiter

[rob3910]

Hi, you will have to bare with me as I am a complete newcomer to stargazing, I have a celestron 130eq which I have rescently purchased and have managed to locate Jupiter now on two consecutive occasions. Each time I have managed to see the four moons in different position which was really interesting to see, my question is when I focus on Jupiter the best I can get is a white ball, with hazy edges. I have a 10 and a 20mm ep and a 2x Barlow. The Barlow was under 20 quid so I'm a bit dubious of it's quality, the 10 and 20 came with the scope. I have studied it for some time, 15,20 minutes, which has been good practice getting used to tracking planets with my mount, but I can see no coloured bands at all. Best I can do is with the 10mm and Barlow but im still seeing it as a larger white ball. Any help or lens advice would be appreciated.

Rob.

[ronin]

2 statements:
If it is the 650mm focal length option then good.

I think, only half sure, that they do a 1000mm focal length version and the tube is 520mm long, if so then bad.

To get Jupiter you need to aim at a magnification of say 65x and above.

Conveniently the 10mm alone should do this, problem is the supplied 10mm is notoriously poor.

You might try the barlow and the 25mm.

You would do better with 80x and up to say 100x.

Either means spending money on another eyepiece.

The BST Starguider 8mm more or less fitting the requirements.

If the magnification is not present then there is too much light and the image is simply swamped with light, so a white blob.

P.S. If Jupiter is low then the atmosphere will cause similar loss of definition.

[rob3910]

Thanks ronin, it's the 650mm focal length I have. I may invest in a BST Starguider 8mm, sounds like a good option. Just out of interest, what would you expect to pay for a reasonable/good quality Barlow? Mine was under 20 quid and as mentioned before I am suspicious of it's quality, it is completely plastic with no metal sleeve like my other ep's. I don't want to be ploughing lots of money I don't have into ep's, especially when the telescope itself was only £120, I suppose they would fit an upgraded scope though if or should I buy better in the future. Many thanks...

[floppygoose]

+1 for the BST Starguider 8mm, together with good seeing conditions, and possibly also double check scope collimation

Phil

[Moonshane]

are you viewing outside and letting the scope cool down for maybe 30 minutes or so before use? this makes a big difference to sharpness (as does collimation of the primary mirror)

[rob3910]

I gave the scope 15 mins or so, that may not have been enough then. Would this scope need collimating as it is brand new, I have only used it twice? Rob.

[Moonshane]

I do mine every time out (primary at least), if you have a moon filter, try that too. you often have to stare at Jupiter for 1-15 minutes before real detail starts to appear.

[buzzlightyear]

Possible it needs collimating as my scope was out when I got it new.

Do a star test on northstar and see of it turns into a round halo when out of focus.

[Kirscovitch]

I have the 130 SLT and it sounds like the same scope (130mm aperture and 650mm focal length)

Mine came with a 25mm and 9mm EP. With the 9mm and a cheap barlow I can make out the bands very easily. Sounds like you might have a collimation issue.

Were you in good focus?

[happy-kat]

With the provided 10mm in the Mercury 705 I could just see two bands (x50 only) but I know from my other scope that if collimation is off then very little is seen and the disk is not resolved nicely at all so my hunch is collimation.

[rob3910]

Thanks for the advice, I was in as good a focus as I could, it was the smallest and most crisp I could get it but was still just a white disc with slightly hazy edges. I will have a look at the other posts on collimating and see what happens! Thanks again. Rob.

[Astro Imp]

Just a thought, were you viewing over neighbours' roof tops. If you were this will substantially degrade what you see as the warm air currents will play havoc with the column of air you are viewing through. 

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Rob, you say that you could get a crisp view with hazy edges - sounds like the atmosphere/seeing wasn't too steady - try to get the disc of Jupiter as small as possible when you focus again, but as mentioned above, you may need a little more magnification or a filter of some sort to darken the image a little, the bands should then be visible, they are very distinct and should be easily visible with the correct mag for your scope, may be just too little mag which is overwhelming the bands.  

Paul.

[AlexB67]

A well collimated/cooled scope 130/650 should be able to show good detail on Jupiter. If you like I can try one of the stock skywatcher 10mm eyepieces, either a super MA or super plossl 10mm with a cheap 2x barlow to cross check to see what I can get as a reminder compared to a dedicated planetary eyepiece on the same night, that should be fairly representative of what you and I have perhaps. ( if it is clear one of these nights)  

I own the heritage 130p same aperture and focal length. I recall the results not being the best with the stock eyepiece and cheap 2x barlow, it rather lacked in contrast and sharpness when I did use it, but still, the main bands could be seen,  as well as the legendary the red spot, but not much else in terms of extra finer details, they would just wash away due to insufficient contrast.  Such a combo should give a good magnifcation at that aperture of 130x with a decent eyepiece. I find this works very well at that focal length and aperture when I use a dedicated eyepiece like the 5mm orthoscopic eyepiece I own now, instead of using the cheap barlow eyepiece combo setup. 

Even an 8mm BST starguider ( a better eyepiece than stock ) coupled with the 1.5x barlow did not really improve things either to give me around 5mm, probably saying more about the barlow than anything  else, that said, even that cheap 1.5x barlow does actually work reasonably well on the 5mm orthoscopic, so perhaps it is a bit of both.

I was looking at jupiter GRS transit last night at 130x in the heritage using the 5mm ortho,  comparing it against the 10 inch Dob and it did well. I couid see the GRS, main bands with some details, as well as clear hints of the STB, NTB and the NPR/SPR as shown on this map without any filters needed.

http://www.astrosurf.com/cidadao/jupiter_obs.htm

Don't give up. Some of it will be seeing conditions on some nights, it will be better some nights and a mess on another.  Looking at the target repeatedly with lots of practice and no doubt it will come to you bit by bit.

If you feel you have reached the point where you think you are getting poor results  repeatedly it may be a good to look at a better dedicated planetary eyepiece.

Good luck

[rob3910]

Thanks loads, firstly, I definatley think the atmosphere wasn't the best, I have streetlights circling my 15ft square garden and yes, I am viewing right over the top of my own house. I am not deterred at all with the results I have so far, I have only had the scope out a few times now and in two sessions I have found and located Jupiter with my scope, got used to using the mount and to top all that I have seen jupiters moons at different places orbiting the planet, which dosent sound like much but for someone who has only looked through a scope in the last week it was a very exciting experience. I will take my scope up on the moors this weekend, skies depending, and have a good session up there and see the difference. Also, I have two filters that came today, a blue and a red, I can try those too. I'm also waiting for turn left at Orion to drop through the letter box too as I enjoy reading about astronomy also. If I don't notice a difference I will prob order a better quality ep and also try collimating. Rob.

[Northern Soul man]

Brilliant - nice one Rob, as soon as you mentioned the hazy edges the seeing sprung to mind - the best thing about planetary viewing is that the light pollution doesn't really affect it.  The filters will help you, remember though that if the filters are a deep blue and a deep red and not say the lighter blue (82a) and the lighter red (not sure of the Wratten number for the lighter red off hand) you may have to get the best focus you can and use averted vision with the darker filters in place - this will cut down a lot of the glare - averted vision is try looking to the edges of the field of view in the eyepiece and keep your eye trained on the object in question - its a little hard to explain this but it comes with practice - even if you try and persevere with the eyepieces you have and spend a little more time on Jupiter  - your experience at "looking" will grow.

It sounds like your enjoying your new scope - it always takes time with every new scope you get, bet the Moors will be nice, you could also try for the star clusters in Auriga at the moment M36, M37 and M38 would be a nice target for you.

I've been into Astronomy for many years now, my excitement has never really lapsed, don't get me wrong - frustration has "attacked" me a few times, when trying to find and locate objects before.  I live under very light polluted skies here in the Midlands and have just learnt to "manage" the light pollution and just try for the brighter objects, but this is where planetary observing isn't hampered under any sky and I've spent hours on them.  

Hope you get to enjoy the skies on the Moors and lets hope the weather plays ball, keep in touch mate and let us know how your trip goes.

Paul

[todd8137]

A fleeting glance never works for me ,I wait with a brew in the obsy for half hour,usually the last half hourr of cooling down to let my eyes get dark adapted ,then it takes a good 10 mins befor I see the detail a filter helps orange light blue neodymium ect I leave my scopes for a good two hours before looking

Pat

[jamie56]

Hi Rob,

I.am a newby also, and new scope out the box was found to be needing collimation, try this first, I have seen Jupiter several times now and allthough light polution was present the view was still enjoyable, happy gazing and good luck

Jamie56

[rob3910]

Thanks Paul, great advice which is appreciated. Scope night app has forecast poor seeing for rest of week but let's hope that changes. I will keep this thread updated. And if I don't see any improvements with new changes jamie56, ie, letting the scope acclimatise, spending more time looking and using different ep's I will definatley collimate, just a bit of a daunting prospect at my stage!!

[buzzlightyear]

I would just check your primary mirror collimation first as the secondary is usually ok. They can get knocked about on transit to its destination.

It's simple to check with the right tools and easy to adjust.

[rob3910]

Morning all, well the skies cleared up last night for an hour or two which gave me chance to try out a few different things that had been advised.

Firstly I let my telescope acclimatised for just over half an hour, I think I may invest in some 10x50 bins to make use of this time in future and do some spotting. I brought a bar stool out and got myself comfortable which made a difference also.

Secondly, I tried out some different ep's with my 2x Barlow. I currently have a 6x, a 10x, a 15x and a 20x along with my cheap and cheerful 2x Barlow. I couldn't get the 6x Barlow combo to focus at all, I found the best I could acheive was with the 10x and Barlow. (I was observing Jupiter) still a little hazy around the edge.

Third, I sat contently for 20 minutes just looking through the ep. I found after about 10 to 15 minutes I started to make out differences in colour on jupiters surface and eventually I could make out two dark bands which looked to run from nw to se of Jupiter. I was made up!having never seen them before I was very excited. I still think lp is greatly effecting the seeing, added to the fact I am looking directly over my own house as trees and streetlights line the rest of the garden. I will, if the wife lets me, take the scope out onto the moors this weekend and see what the difference is. If I don't see much improvement I will try collimating and see what happens! Thanks for all your advice so far, if it wasn't for pointers I have received on this incredable forum I would still be chasing a white disc through the night sky. It's all progress and I'm learning day by day. Rob.

[happy-kat]

That is great news.

Why not do a collimation check even if you do no fiddling.

I have a collimation cap and it goes in the eye piece and tells me straight off whether there is an issue or not with the mirrors.

You can make one using a old film canister and drill a small hole dead centre.

[rob3910]

I think I will do that, I have read something about that method. Il have a go when I fin work. Would I just be eying up the mirror reflection through the hole in the canister and making sure it is dead centre??

[happy-kat]

Most primary mirrors have a small dot dead centre you use that to see it is in the centre. All I use is a collimation cap on my 130p, I spent ages measuring and checking my secondary mirror was perfect out the box so it is just my primary I tweak.

Why not photograph what you see through the hole and post it here?

I bought my collimation cap from FLO when I bought the scope and as it is working for me I have not so far bought a Cheshire.

[rob3910]

I will do happy kat, I will post later this evening. (gmt)