Sun is so small!!!

[JamesF]

I have to agree with the others, MM.  They're remarkably similar in angular diameter.  Both vary a little depending on which part of the orbit we or the Moon are in, but they're very close.  If I take a full-disc image of the Moon and the Sun (in white light) using my 127 Mak and DSLR then they both almost fill the sensor and the difference between the two is a matter of a few percent.

For example, here are two images, one of the Sun, one of the Moon, taken on the 25th (Moon) and 26th (Sun) of June in 2013.  Both were taken using exactly the same kit (there was just a Baader film filter on the front of the scope for the solar image) and have been identically rescaled in processing.

James

[Ptarmigan]

Let's end the thread there and all go,to bed

What ! All go to bed when we are having so much fun !!!! :)

This is a brill. example of how things can go so horribly wrong in text, without so much as a view of a smile or a pint of beer !

My contribution to the "not seeing it as he sees it" debate

 :--

"But why does it look so small through my white light solar filter, a lot smaller that the moon, "

But you have not seen the moon through your white light filter have you ? !

"it is obviously something to do with the filter, because without that they look the same size"

If you have seen the sun without your filter you are now blind !

Emmmm, ducks and runs >>>

[Tiny Small]

"But why does it look so small through my white light solar filter, a lot smaller that the moon, "

But you have not seen the moon through your white light filter have you ? !

I was going to say exactly that.

And not to be rude but you said yourself "whatever science says is fine but...". The science by it's nature is based on empirical evidence that has been repeated by a multitude of sources and has been verified independently by each source. Peer review is the backbone of the scientific method and as the entire scientific community agree on the science, if you don't, I suggest you are simply mistaken.

[JamesF]

What ! All go to bed when we are having so much fun !!!! :)

This is a brill. example of how things can go so horribly wrong in text, without so much as a view of a smile or a pint of beer !

Personally I think it's well worth digging into these things to get to the bottom.  I'm sure MagnaMan is calling it as he sees it, but his perception is demonstrably at odds with reality (and not just my pictures .  The question then is why does he have the perception he does?  I can't answer that, but I think it's a timely reminder that our perception is often flawed, interpreting what we see not only through the lens of our telescopes, but also that of our preconception, prejudice and expectation.  The astronomer who fails to ask "Am I really seeing what I think I am seeing and how can I be sure?" is liable to end up seeing, for example, canals on Mars.

So I for one think the OP's questions are valid and worthwhile asking, and deserving of a decent attempt at answering.

James

[Ptarmigan]

Absolutly James, couldnt agree more, well said.

I was just poking a bit of fun at how things seemed to be going a bit, ummm, astray ?

[Tiny Small]

 The astronomer who fails to ask "Am I really seeing what I think I am seeing and how can I be sure?" is liable to end up seeing, for example, canals on Mars.

James

This is a beautiful analogy. I don't know whether to be sad for him or celebrate his success. Or both.

[JamesF]

Absolutly James, couldnt agree more, well said.

I was just poking a bit of fun at how things seemed to be going a bit, ummm, astray ?

Indeed.  Wasn't meant to be a dig at your comment.  It just seemed to fit as an addendum to that.  Apologies if it came across any other way.

James

[Ptarmigan]

And not to be rude but you said yourself "whatever science says is fine but...".

Pardon me if I make a small correction here ! Since you began by quoting me I think I should say that

 it was not I that said the above but him above above

:) if you see what I mean !

Oh the tangled webs we do weave

[Ptarmigan]

No prob James !

and yes, I too like the "canals on Mars" bit, again, well said

[Tiny Small]

Haha... well spotted. I should have clarified who I was quoting in the second bit. Apologies.

[Ptarmigan]

Apologies.

No prob.

[Stu]

Well do me a favour and go outside tomorrow with your solar filter and look, then tell me if it looks the same as the moon, either that or my filter is acting as a focal reducer.

Well, I would do but I bet it will be cloudy! ;-)

Seriously, I regularly observe the sun using both a PST and also a TV76 with a Herschel Wedge. I also use the 76 to observe the moon so can honestly say that I've compared the size at similar magnifications and they are basically the same, give or take small variations.

As Rick says, it is likely to be an optical illusion which makes the moon appear bigger to you.

Cheers,

Stu

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[glowingturnip]

guys, guys...

totally agree though, with the naked eye through a solar filter, the sun does look small...  insignificant somehow..., but I do know that using the exact same solar filter, the sun's disc and moon's disc fill the same amount of my DSLR frame, so it is just an optical illusion.  I guess the brain thinks it should be bigger because of the amount of heat and glare it's giving out.

Time for the pencil-rubber test

[ollypenrice]

There is also the well known illusion that the sun or moon look bigger when close the horizon. They're not bigger but many people report the illusion and a friend of ours did her psychology degree dissertation on the subject.

When teaching astronomy I've often cited the pencil test (ahem, the one where you hold the pencil at arm's length to obscure the moon!!) and many people absolutely will not believe it at any price - until they try it and then, of course, they find it's correct.

So the solar filter illusion my be an extension of the horizon illusion, perhaps. Or maybe it has other origins.

Olly

[StevieDvd]

There is also the well known illusion that the sun or moon look bigger when close the horizon. They're not bigger but many people report the illusion and a friend of ours did her psychology degree dissertation on the subject.

When teaching astronomy I've often cited the pencil test (ahem, the one where you hold the pencil at arm's length to obscure the moon!!) and many people absolutely will not believe it at any price - until they try it and then, of course, they find it's correct.

So the solar filter illusion my be an extension of the horizon illusion, perhaps. Or maybe it has other origins.

Olly

I regulary see the lunar illusion when driving home from the station. With all the twists and turns in the roads and the differing horizon the moon looks really big and then you turn the corner and it has magically shrunk.

[Guest]

guys, guys...

totally agree though, with the naked eye through a solar filter, the sun does look small...  insignificant somehow..., but I do know that using the exact same solar filter, the sun's disc and moon's disc fill the same amount of my DSLR frame, so it is just an optical illusion.  I guess the brain thinks it should be bigger because of the amount of heat and glare it's giving out.

Time for the pencil-rubber test

Thank you

That is all I was trying to say, it looks small with the naked eye through a Solar filter, I totally agree that they are roughly the same size, just wanted someone to explain why it looks so small through the filter with the naked eye.......

[Guest]

If this carries on I will soon be able to sell on here, as am getting closer to 250 posts.........lol

MM

[Steve Ward]

Let's just hope you don't try to sell your obviously defective Solar filter ... 

[Guest]

Oh right

So,it is defective then??

Glad to find out now while under warranty, good to,know