Finally decided it is a refractor that I want

[MikeP]

After trying a Newtonian and an SCT, I've finally come to the conclusion that a refractor better suits my needs for observing. The Newtonian was far too ungainly in use and I'm afraid that while my C11 is much better, it is still too bulky for me to lift on and off the mount with ease.

I have an ED80 and ST80 for imaging / guiding - they will keep me amused for years at my rate of progress. I'll stick with my C11 until after the Autumn Kelling party (its presence has been requested), but then I'd like to replace it with as good a refractor as my financial controller deems I can afford. So, I'm looking for advice on what to consider.

Requirements? Bit of an all rounder really. I like hunting for DSO's - my eyesight is not really up to it, but I don't want to give up on it completely. The double and variable star observing is piquing my interest, so primarily I'd like something suitable for that. Finally, I'll never tire of looking at the moon and the planets, so there's another requirement.

Cost is always important, but since I'm not looking for anything larger than a 6" / 150mm aperture (prices would get really silly then), please don't be constrained by it. My financial controller might veto it, but that is her prerogative.

All advice gratefully received.

Mike

[The Warthog]

SkyWatcher has a very nice 120mm ED refractor that only costs your left arm and your first-born child. If ever I had real money, that is the sort of refractor I would get, on a goto mount.

[GazOC]

Or, for your right arm as well...

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=WOflt132

[jcm]

In the 130mm range 2 spring to mind:-

The WO 132 APO at about £2800 or so and the TMB 130mm (F6 - F9.25) in the £3500 + range ( at least you get a test certificate with this one )

John

[MikeP]

I've just been looking at the prices of Astro-Physics and Takahashi for comparison. They make the scopes suggested so far sound like bargains.

I appreciate that the more I pay, the better the quality, but what should I be looking for? There must come a point where my eyes just won't detect any benefit by spending more.

Mike

[Andrew*]

for an cheaper alternative, what about the 5" evostar or ST150?

I know they're "only" achros, but they've got a nice price... don't hit me - it's only a suggestion!

Andrew

[jcm]

If you are looking at Astro-Physics/Takahashi you are probably better off looking second hand. Certainly for the Astro-Physics to buy new would require a bit of a wait - at one time it was 1-2 years. For second hand you would have to search the for sale adds for some time before one in good condition and the right spec turned up.

John

[The Warthog]

for an cheaper alternative, what about the 5" evostar or ST150?

I know they're "only" achros, but they've got a nice price... don't hit me - it's only a suggestion!

Andrew

I wouldn't hit you for that suggestion. My frac is an achro, albeit a very good achro, and with a MV filter in place I don't have owt to complain about.

[GazOC]

I appreciate that the more I pay, the better the quality, but what should I be looking for? There must come a point where my eyes just won't detect any benefit by spending more.

It proabably is at, or near, the ED120 to WO 132 scale. AP and Tak are the real cream of the crop where you're paying a lot of money for small improvements.

Smaller (and cheaper) scopes to consider are the ED100, Megrez 110.

[MartinB]

http://www.andysshotglass.com/120ed.html

Here's an interesting link Mike. Andy gives a very fair and balanced report. There is also a second part to his review.

I have had an ED120 set up side by side with a WO FLT110. Photgraphically I would go with the FLT mainly for its 4" drawtube. It also has a rotatable focusser and nosepiece holder and a superior focuser. It is also a wee bit quicker. Visually the extra aperture of the ED120 just shaded it for me. This makes it a mighty good buy and if you want a few more bells and whistles the Equinox 120 is now available at a very good price.

The question you have to ask is, do your really want a refractor? An 8" SCT is a very fine scope and I have spent a fair bit of time comparing the 2. For deep sky observing the C8 is quite noticeably better in terms of what is revealed. The optics on my C8 were spot on, double cluster stars looking every bit as pretty as through the ED120. In good seeing on Saturn and the moon the C8 turns in a performance the ED120 just couldn't get near. Resolution is significantly better so you see more. Colour is superior with the ED120 but not a dramatic difference. The only time I felt the ED120 outperformed the SCT was when viewing Saturn and the moon in mediocre seeing. The C8 is more affected by seeing than the ED120 and when it is moderate to poor the advantage of better resolution is lost. In this situation the better contrast gives the ED120 the edge. Of course with the SCT you have to collimate and it takes longer to cool down (although a 5" apo is no quickie in this department either).

There is one very subjective factor that might also be significant. Looking through a refractor feels good. It feels as if you are looking through a proper scope, a high calibre optical intrument. It is something impossible to define but there is a pleasure and purity in using an apo. When you're using an SCT, it's just an SCT, the Ford Mondeo of the telescope world. With a C8 you almost have to apologise!

So if it's pride of ownership you want and people bringing you drinks at a star party just get on the phone to Nick Hudson at Trutek and order a Takahashi TOA 130. Make it your scope for life and slowly accumulate the best EPs money can buy. You will be a true opticophile and a popular guy.

If you just want the best all round views from a portable package make it a C8, stick whatever glass you like in the end of it, and you'll have enough money left over to buy the man with the Tak a drink next time you're at Kelling

[ottUp]

1. On deciding that a refractor is what you want: Good for you. Mirrors are for shaving.

2. Just another of the many brand suggestions: http://www.stellarvue.com/ I have, and have had, several. THe one in my avatar to the left is their 4", an SV-105. Excellent quality, good value, and when you phone them you talk to Vic, they guy who made your scope and has personally tested it.

Regards

Richard

[coliea]

Just another of the many brand suggestions: http://www.stellarvue.com/

This is heartbreaking

The Stellarvue Deluxe 102 ED is £1094.99 in the UK http://tinyurl.com/33cwvq and $1395 in the US http://tinyurl.com/3bhdn8 - £706.87 at the time of writing. A £388 (or 765 dollar) difference. The crayford focuser version can be had for 555 quid for goodness sake! I gotta stop checking exchange rates... it's just too upsetting.

Col :sad5:

[Whippy]

1. On deciding that a refractor is what you want: Good for you. Mirrors are for shaving.

This is heartbreaking

The Stellarvue Deluxe 102 ED is £1094.99 in the UK http://tinyurl.com/33cwvq and $1395 in the US http://tinyurl.com/3bhdn8 - £706.87 at the time of writing. A £388 (or 765 dollar) difference. The crayford focuser version can be had for 555 quid for goodness sake! I gotta stop checking exchange rates... it's just too upsetting.

Col :sad5:

Ah, Col it's best not to look mate. Especially with Stellarvue stuff as it has very limited distribution over here and low sales = higher RRP's to make it worthwhile importing them. By all accounts though, quality scopes .

Anyhoo, Mike, I'll have my ZS110 at Kelling. You're more than welcome to use it if you so desire mate.

Tony..

[GazOC]

Well if Martins going to use a refractor thread to push SCTs I'm going to offer up the suggestion of a 6"-7" Mak/Cass.

[gary1968]

1. On deciding that a refractor is what you want: Good for you. Mirrors are for shaving.

:nono: Mirrors are deffo the way forward, IMO.......................

Gary

[MikeP]

Many many thanks to all of you who have responded. There are a lot of thought provoking ideas expressed.

I suppose its a bit like buying a car, using Martin's Ford Mondeo analogy. You are tempted by 0 to 60mph time and top speed but your head tells you to look at the mpg figures, safety, reliability etc. Ultimately, the damn thing just gets you from A to B.

"The best scope is the one that gets used most often" is what is motivating me at present and despite compelling arguments against, I'm still leaning towards refractors. They just seem so much more convenient in all sorts of ways. Hopefully that will get me outside more often.

I'll keep an open mind for a while and trawl the stands at Astrofest to see what the market has to offer. (Something with a "cloud gun" preferably).

Mike

[gary1968]

(Something with a "cloud gun" preferably).

Mike

Thats one for the guys in Dragons Den, if you can come up with that then your on to a winner............ :hello1:

[Cloudwatcher]

I think Andrew and Warthog are right you know. It doesn't have to be an APO to give you wonderful widefield views and indeed images if you are into that aspect. The ST150 is my favorite scope for this type of observing especially since the original focuser was replaced with the WO dual speed job. Even with the extra cost of the focuser I feel this scope offers excellent value for money in the DSO department. It's lighter and less bulky than my 8' Schmidt-Newt' and gives a nice,more 'contrasty' view of the sky plus the eyepiece always ends up where you expect it to!. As Warthog says a 'fringe killer' can be used if you are worried about CA.

This is my scope,not a very good picture I'm afraid. I will see if I still have have any 'untouched' images taken with a 350D attached to the scope.

Cheers

CW

P.S Sorry,I seem to have two scopes for the price of one.Doh!

(click as usual)

[SteelRat]

I think Andrew and Warthog are right you know. It doesn't have to be an APO to give you wonderful widefield views and indeed images if you are into that aspect. The ST150 is my favorite scope for this type of observing especially since the original focuser was replaced with the WO dual speed job)

Dave's blue scope looks the job and more than likely does the job 8) I had the old black tube Helios version many a moon (year) ago. It's a scope I miss a lot. I fitted mine with a Skywatcher ED focuser (shown below). I'll have a blue one like Dave's again some day. Widefield ace AND lunar close-up to boot. Two scopes for the price of one is a good idea IMHO 8)

[cygnusx1]

Apologies for butting in here....

CW and SR what do the 150ST and Helios go for these days market value wise?

I'm tempted at getting a larger aperture short length refractor to compliment my ED80 , but my main concern is CA on my images.

[Cloudwatcher]

Love the look of the 'Black Jobs'.

I just noticed that not only have we had the same type of scope but we also have the same fencing!

Didn't I always say you were a man of taste,SR!

Cheers

CW

[SteelRat]

man of taste,SR!

Thanks Dave

I'll av anuver 1 sune az matey 8)

[Cloudwatcher]

Hi Kevin,

My local 'Astro' shop offer the ST150 OTA for £320. I don't think you can still get the Helios model but SR may know different. The dual speed Crayford is priced at £159 and takes no time at all to fit.

HTH

CW

[SteelRat]

I don't think you can still get the Helios model but SR may know different

No mate, SR... ...DON'T know diffrunt

...and;

The dual speed Crayford is priced at £159 and takes no time at all to fit.

You might find an SW ED foc unit for somewhere around £15 delivered like I did WAY back when. Then again...

...you might not (sigh)

Cheers

Matthew(SR)

[GazOC]

but my main concern is CA on my images.

I wouldn't recommend it then, ST150s are great for widefield, visual use but even with a fringe killer you'd get a lot of colour on your images.