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Laptop question

MND

By MND
in Getting Started With Imaging

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MND

MND

Posted
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Hi all,

About to purchase a laptop and a couple questions if I may.

Is it a problem working with a laptop outside? I'm thinking particularly the cold and damp. My scope gets covered with dew and I would imagine that is not good with a laptop.

Could you run your scope and laptop off the same power pack or would you just rely on the laptops own battery?

TIA

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steppenwolf

steppenwolf

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I have never had a problem with using my laptop outside but the key is to what you do after your session - I always place mine switched off in the airing cupboard with the screen open for as long as possible to dry it all out. The danger point is turning on a PC when it is damp and this course of action solves that.

Depending on your laptop, you are always best to use the laptop's own battery but if this doesn't last very long (and mine doesn't!!) then try and buy a 12v supply specifically for it. Try NOT to use a standard 12v to mains AC inverter to power the standard PSU as these are very inefficient and can cause 'ripple noise' that can affect image download quality.

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leelee970

leelee970

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You should be fine with using a laptop outside - they usually produce enough heat themselves to keep it dry.

If exposed then I'd suggest putting it into a box with one side open to view the screen/keyboard.

As Steve said, make sure it dries out fully once inside the house.

Batteries (of any kind) are affected by low temperatures.

Lee

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Mukv

Mukv

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Greetings

I use a Dell XPS M1710 because of the HD screen resolution and when out and about I have a small 850W generator to power my setup ( camera's, heaters, mount,  laptop and aux lighting ) as the battery only lasts a little over 1 hour but if I'm only observing I use a power tank to power heaters and the mount.

The laptop gets quite warm during use and this helps fight the dew issues that can sometimes occur a cowl made from hardboard helps protect it as well or even from a cardboard box cut down. 

Andy

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sidelight

sidelight

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I find my laptop generates enough heat to stop dew forming, but then is not ideal for this as it eats its way through the battery.  I use the storage box for cables etc on its side with the laptop in during the session.  Seems to do the trick for me

Cheers

Ross

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Russe

Russe

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What I do with my imaging laptop - I change the settings as to what happens when you close the lid - this way you prevent it from hibernating. Beforehand, I log into Comodo - and control my setup from the warmth of my couch with a second computer.

I usually cover my electronics with a heavy towel over night.

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Langy

Langy

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I think the key thing is to just take care. It's a box full of electrical components that isn't designed to be out in damp conditions.

So I think in general care is required just in the same way you would use other electrical items in similar conditions.

Trying to keep it as dry as possible is key and the main thing is that when you come back indoors it will condensate everywhere it can that has a cold surface.

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Mukv

Mukv

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Think I'll go with Dell then if you don't need anything specific. I know they arent the cheapest but used Dell desktops for years with no issues.

http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15r-5537/pd?oc=cnr1515&model_id=inspiron-15r-5537

Greetings

It's worth looking at the screen resolution before deciding on a laptop 1366 x 768  can be a little restricted for imaging depending on what resolution camera / CCD  you use , 1920 x 1080 would be worth looking for.

Andy

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MND

MND

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I was going to just use the laptop for controlling cameras etc. I would do image processing on my desktop. Would the laptop still need the better resolution in this case?

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Langy

Langy

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It's a case of what resolution you want to see when you view your live feed of the cameras.

If they are sticking out a high resolution then you will need to scale the image back to see the lot, however the larger screen you go for then I guess the price will go up.

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Mukv

Mukv

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Price for a screen of that resolution goes up about a grand. 1600x900 isnt too much more, a decent compromise?

Greetings

It is a good resolution for camera work, I started with a Toshiba screen resolution of 1366 x 768 and soon found the need to upgrade I now use the tosh for guiding and use a DELL XPS M1710 duel core for image capture,

Andy

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Langy

Langy

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It may not be practical but you could always have a small laptop and an external monitor. Far cheaper but damp may be an issue unless you can house the monitor in something.

Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Tapatalk

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AstroAdam

AstroAdam

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My imaging laptop is sometimes covered in frost by the time I finish, including the screen.  I actually tend to close the lid to keep things warm.  I've set the laptop to not sleep, but just to shut of the screen if the lid is closed.  This also has the advantage of making the battery last much longer...

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DAKz

DAKz

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OK I read through the thread, and if I can offer my input....

First allow me to qualify myself, I am a computer bench tech and have been since I was trained in the military in 1976.

I have been a Microsoft beta tester for the last 15 years.

We average 10-20 laptop repairs per day through the shop, and I have seen about everything in those years you can imagine.

With that being said....

The idea that the laptop will generate enough heat is pretty much true, it will, unless your using it in a severe high humidity etc, there shouldn't be a problem, rule of thumb is if the palmrest, (the area around the keyboard) is fairly dry you should be fine.

Now, that was the easy one.

As for what type of laptop, etc. Any laptop will provide a better screen res then most of your imaging software will.

If your using APT, or BYEOS then your getting a reduced image size anyhow, and if your using a webcam, your still way under what a normal screen resolution will be.

If your going to go out and purchase a laptop for using outside for imaging etc., you can go spend a ton of money, but there are way better ways to do it.

I use an older Dell e6400, small good res, and if it falls on the ground then I got like $40 into the whole thing no huge loss.

Now I did add some things to it to make it do what I need, and this is a rule of thumb for any computer.

RAM is king. I use 4gb and I could do 8 in it, but so far have had no issues with 4. Anything less then 2, you will be waiting forever for the images to process through the laptop.

Do not use Windows Vista. It simply is a very resource hungry operating system and you will see a 100% improvement in speed from Windows 7.

Windows 8 has to be modded to be practical for using for imaging, mainly bypassing the Metro User interface.

The whole box idea, while it sounds good is a bad way to go. Especially if your using a HP brand laptop. Her's why, Laptops have horrible cooling, no way around it, they have poor airflow across the video heat sink, and the processor is bare minimum for airflow through the base. Rather then restrict the air flow with a box, find something to prop the back end of the laptop up a little. anywhere from an inch to a half inch makes a world of difference. When I test them on a bench I usually stand them on their side for best airflow.

 This is a fact, The colder you can run a computer, the better it will run. Ask any overclocker and they will say the same. Their is a warning on that...if you can manage to run it colder then ambient temp, condensation will form on the motherboard and short it out. Ambient is the key word.

 Go with as big a hard drive as you can. Or better go with an external USB hard drive, they are extremely cheap for really large ones. Use it as your save target, then you did not bet the farm on a laptop hard drive, and personally I use the laptop to capture, I then plug the USB drive into the desktop where I can do processing on my 42" Monitor.

 Now not trying to start a debate, Just stating what we repair at our shop....

We repair 20 HP video problems for any 1 any other brand. That is just a sad fact, but it is true. Toshiba is a distant second. Dell we see less then any other. And no it is not because HP is the number one seller etc. We have a couple colleges in town that isse the students Dells so really they out number the HP's by a good margin.

 Again this is based on experience...A western Digital drive will fail you. If it is over a 500gb size it will fail.  Best for laptop hard drives would be seagate.

As for power, that is a tricky one, sadly it is always an issue with a laptop used at any level.

In Windows you have an option of choosing power options, Since we use red screens for outside sky work, then reduce your screen brightness as much as you can and still use it, you can effectively double the time of your battery.

Hibernate was the worst thing ever done to a computer, should be remove and never used. Countless horror stories I can relate to you about computers never coming back from hibernation because of what ever task they were doing when they went into hibernation.

If you must render your computer useless for a while then set it to go into "Sleep" mode. Way easier on the hard drive and other components. And again this is a setting that can be done in the power settings.

While your in the power settings, find the settings for when you turn the computer off, by default Windows will put your computer to sleep.

I suggest these settings...

When you close the lid......Sleep.

When you shut down using the shut down button IN WINDOWS, both the windows shut down button, and the physical button, make it shut the computer off. Battery tends to last longer when the computer is off.

Power supplies, chargers etc. Try to use the OEM chargers, and batteries. Will work better, longer and the aftermarket chargers tend to overheat and fail.

Back to the screen resolutions...

720 p equals 1280x720, very simple for any laptop made this decade.

1080p equals 1920X"1080" doable on newer laptops, but will use the battery faster, and unless your running imaging devices that can use the 1080p not worth the effort.

other tips for getting the best out of your battery life, disable as much as you can in Windows.

Do you really need to run updates while imaging?

Web browsers are horrible memory hogs, not uncommon to see 30-50% RAM used for a web browser, this will result in faster battery drain, more heat, etc.

WIFI is cool yea, but again unless your at a Star party/LAN party, something else running that is not needed.

That Anti Virus scanner, if your not connected to the internet, no sense having it scanning, using resources and battery.

The moral of this story...You can get a great laptop for mount control, imaging, etc, for very little money.  There are a lot that even do it on the little mini laptops.

My old Dell e6400 does very well, And if I had to put it on the shelf to sell tomorrow probably would be less then $200.

Hope this helps anyone struggling with laptops and if you have any questions then I will do my best to provide the best answers my experience will give.

Clear skies!

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lensman57

lensman57

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Hi all,

About to purchase a laptop and a couple questions if I may.

Is it a problem working with a laptop outside? I'm thinking particularly the cold and damp. My scope gets covered with dew and I would imagine that is not good with a laptop.

Could you run your scope and laptop off the same power pack or would you just rely on the laptops own battery?

TIA

You can use it, the battery does not last long particulaly if like me you connect multiple usb devices to it. Keep the PSU close to the laptop and I cover both with a decent towel with the lid almost closed but do not put the lap top to sleep. Mine is an old one and generates a lot of heat under the towel . You do not need to keep the lid open all night once have started the imaging btw. Once brought in let the lap top work itself dry.  I will probably make a housing for it in the future.

Regards,

A.G

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