Various Questions - Could be several forum sections

[Langy]

Hello

I was hoping for some advice on the upgrade options and use for my new first telescope.

I’ve just bought the Celestron Astromaster 130 EQ, I know that the is a beginners telescope and hopefully a reasonable entry level scope for its price but hoping to get the best from it through accessories over time. I’m new to the hobby but have a good photographic background so can understand most common things with a telescope as a telescope is like a camera with a very long lens.

My new scope was delivered on Monday and was set-up that evening, unfortunately cloud cover has meant I couldn't use it until I spotted a brief period of thinning cloud just after midnight last night. So I grabbed the telescope unable to Polar align as Polaris was still behind the clouds and got to view the moon and luckily enough Jupiter was just above and in that thin cloud.

So from my brief experience last night (early hours this morning) I found the following.

Trying to operate an EQ mount coming from a photographic background is going to take some getting used to, however once I found the subject tracking on the RA was great and very easy. Even without the proper polar alignment I only had to adjust the DEC every after three or four times the subject had crossed through the view finder.
The moon was extremely bright – moon filter to be discussed in a minute.
Jupiter nicely focused on the 20mm (32.5x) and the three moons visible on the 10mm (65x) with a hint of detail in Jupiter.

As I said I would like to try and get the best that this budget scope has to offer from it over time. 

For moon viewing I know I will need a moon filter. Now the 10mm lens has the filter thread at the bottom, but the 20mm lens doesn’t. I did see a YouTube video where they said just drop the filter In the eye cup for speed which will not always be practical. Looking around at moon filters I have noticed that some of them have a thick plastic frame rather than the thin metal frame. Will the cheaper plastic ones impair anyway with the eyepiece, especially if I was to try and have some other device trying to look through the eyepiece like a phone, webcam or camera?

My main goal with the telescope is to record images that I see where it would be nice eventually if I could get that to work for a phone, webcam, compact digital camera and digital SLR. I have a few general questions covering all the devices.

Phone – I tried to use the phone last night on the moon. Image was washed out which I suspect the phone can’t stop down on the aperture enough where a moon filter may help. My other issue I noticed was that when you did manage to get the lens lined up with the eyepiece you didn’t get anywhere near the full view of the eye piece. Moving it away a little improved this so not sure if a spacer will resolve the who issue. It was very difficult to line it up.

Webcam – These are very light and I would guess quite easy to attach to an eye piece by either a tube over it or in a crude way a bit of masking tape. Would there be any issues as to what extent you could see in the eye piece, i.e. you get the vignette as the eye piece is a circle or you only see the very centre?

Compact Digital – I really like the bracket you are selling, very adaptable for any camera with a great demo on your video. I don’t think you displayed any pictures from the cameras but will these vignette or be somewhere in the middle of the eye piece?

Digital SLR – This is my ideal end solution. As you attach the camera to a coupling on the T-Thread how does the magnification work? For example my telescope is 650mm, will it just be like having a 650mm lens on the camera? If I use a 2x Barlows for the T-Thread will that then just double the 650mm? I guess you just focus the camera the same way you would with the eye piece. Does a DSLR vignette or will it just be an inner section of the eye piece?

Cam Corder – I have a Sony Handycam similar to this http://www.camera.co.uk/sony-camcorder- ... ctors-7403 being fairly light and small would this fit your adjustable compact camera mount and how well would you expect a device like this to work through the eye piece?

Finally I found that the scope moves i.e. would react to vibration quite easily. Last night I hadn’t extended the legs on the tripod, so the legs should have been firm and I would guess that the weakest part would have been from the EQ mount on the DEC and RA Axis. Do you have any further suggestions on making it more stable. You really notice it when you look through the eye piece, if you touch it then it moves slightly. With it being magnified so much it probably looks far worse than it actually is but with photography you have to try and cut it out.

I know that I will have to get the tracking motor at some point, especially if I am to photo more faint subjects. Surprisingly if I had bought the telescope with the motor on it was an extra £40, I’ve seen the motor for sale (proper Celestron) for £30.

The EQ mount is going to take some getting used to, especially with the slow motion adjusters getting in the way at times too. I have found so far that when you lock the clutch it doesn’t always lock tight. May be just because its new or I just need to be a little firmer.

Like most people these days, I have a tight budget and this is a luxury item for me. However over time I would like to get the best from it and I know cheap parts are not best but there are times where cheap parts work as well. Optics is not usually the case.

Update: Last night the cloud thinned again for two hours allowing plenty of time to view the moon, Jupiter and this time the 4 moons even though they looked like a very distant star.

Thanks in advance for any advice

Paul

[rowan46]

welcom to sgl. The astronaster has decent optics for its price but the bundled eyepieces that come with it are not the best. however the first thing that needs addressing is its wobbly tripod. Make sure all its screws are tight (adding washers to the screws helps) and adding weight to the tripod (some people fill the legs with sand or fishing shot ) most just hang a weight off the tripod. your best bet for imaging is to piggyback the camera on the mount as its not really accurate enough to do much in the way of long exposure at prime focus. hope thats some help

[brantuk]

Crikey Paul - you may find it easier, and get more replies quicker, by just asking one or two questions only per post. Anyone who considers responding will have to spend a good few mins just reading through everything you're asking there.

Hope you benefit from my tip.

[Langy]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I will start posting more specific questions in the correct forums.

[cantab]

You don't need a moon filter, but your might find viewing better with one. I'd give some thought to the Baader Neodynium filter, it's reputed to be a great all rounder for lunar, planetary, and even deep-sky viewing.

Webcams are usually attached in place of the eyepiece, not onto it.

You're spot on about DSLRs - when connected to your telescope at prime focus you're effectively using a 650mm f/5 lens.

[hippie]

Polar align your scope, Make sure you balanced the scope with EP's attached (make sure there screwed in tight before balancing?),    Look for better EP's There are S/H ones on UK  Astronomy bye & sell, Try local asto groups to see other peoples set up's and try different EP's to see what works best for you, Most people are only to happy to advice you and let you look through there scopes,

[esxste]

I'll give some advice on the phone astrophotography, as I've been playing with that for fun. Obviously don't expect to get great images, unless your phone has decent camera functions. With my iPhone I used the 'night modes' app, and locked the exposure while pointing the camera at a bright light. You need to put the camera more dead centre in the light path, ideally as close the focal point as possible. You can get mounts that will achieve that for you, or you could fashion your own if your that way inclined

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Langy]

Thanks André

I've tried with my phone and it has been so hard to align it correctly to get the image to start with. The obvious subject for testing was the moon as it is nice and bright. Then I found it was too bright for the phone to handle as there not and settings to compensate for the brightness of the moon. However last night I've managed to hopefully find an app that will work for that as I took a reasonable picture buy pointing to to a bright light about 12 inches away and got detail from within the actual light filament.

The phone I mainly use is the HTC 8X Windows phone which is poor on apps but great images when it does work as it is a 8MP and HD recorder, so I will try more with this. Working in IT and also looking after our company mobiles I have access to several mobiles. In my bag I take home I already have an HTC Sensation, Samsung Mini 2 and an old iPhone 3, so eventually I will experiment with all these.

The main issue I have been having is the alignment. Getting the small lens over the eyepiece is hard enough, then it has to be tilted is all too much to start with in the dark. I'm going to play around with this in daylight to see if I can get it to work as the scope is designed for terrestrial viewing too. As for a mount, if I can rig something up even with just wire and a bit of board will help.

I'm just looking at cheap ways to get an image of what I am viewing.

Paul

[happy-kat]

Fastest way to an image is point your camera or phone camera at the eye piece hold steady and take an image. I find macro mode on the camera works best for this type of image grab of bright object like the moon.

[esxste]

Thanks André

I've tried with my phone and it has been so hard to align it correctly to get the image to start with. The obvious subject for testing was the moon as it is nice and bright. Then I found it was too bright for the phone to handle as there not and settings to compensate for the brightness of the moon. However last night I've managed to hopefully find an app that will work for that as I took a reasonable picture buy pointing to to a bright light about 12 inches away and got detail from within the actual light filament.

The phone I mainly use is the HTC 8X Windows phone which is poor on apps but great images when it does work as it is a 8MP and HD recorder, so I will try more with this. Working in IT and also looking after our company mobiles I have access to several mobiles. In my bag I take home I already have an HTC Sensation, Samsung Mini 2 and an old iPhone 3, so eventually I will experiment with all these.

The main issue I have been having is the alignment. Getting the small lens over the eyepiece is hard enough, then it has to be tilted is all too much to start with in the dark. I'm going to play around with this in daylight to see if I can get it to work as the scope is designed for terrestrial viewing too. As for a mount, if I can rig something up even with just wire and a bit of board will help.

I'm just looking at cheap ways to get an image of what I am viewing.

Paul

Look at apps that will let you lock the exposure level. The problem with the iPhone that I had is that the object your viewing is incredibly bright against a dark background, but the autoexposure doesn't focus on and expose the bright object correctly. This is made even worse when you holding the phone up to the eye piece... cold hands arn't the steadiest, and the automatic functions are constantly having to re-adjust. 

Lock your exposure level with a bright light source, and you'll be able to get great shots of the moon. Jupiter, i'm still trying to find the right exposure levels for. 

[JimmyJazz]

HI Paul,

I have just recently got my first telescope, the skywatcher 130p EQ, and i have had a similar experience with clouds! I have read a lot of posts on the forum saying that the stock 10mm eyepiece that comes with the SW isn't up to much ( maybe the celestron is different), but I have found it gave me a really clear view of Jupiter and its moons, with some cloud bands clearly visible, so if that is a poor quality eyepiece, I'm happy to use it for a while and get blown away all over again when i can afford a decent one.

But anyway, I just thought I would chip in as, on my second night experimenting with telescopes i decided to givge the mobile phone to the eyepiece photography a go. like you i found getting the picture steady enough for long enough to take a deecent picture really tricky, and i must have taken about 20 rubbish shots, but if you have a bit of patience, i found it really rewarding to get my first photo of the moon:

Its a bit overexposed, but I'm quite pleased with it, and the important thing to me is more that I took it rather than objectively how good it is, so if you persevere you can get some nice images. I'm currently using the bad weather time to bodge together something to hold my phone up to the eyepice, so i at least eliminate the shaky hand limitations.

Good luck with you viewing!

Phil.

[Langy]

That's not a bad picture Phil, I'd be pleased with it on the first attempt.

I've managed to find an app for my Windows phone which will hopefully control the bright exposure better.

Also when searching around I found this forum post http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/202167-cell-phone-a-focal-adapter/ where someone has made a holder for a phone.

Like you I was told when researching the scope that the Eye Pieces were not good, spotting Jupiter and just about making out the two bands with the 4 moons, I'm happy with for now.

Before I upgrade the Eye Pieces I'd rather get the focus scope and photography side sorted first. Being new to this you find yourself very easily pleased in seeing the moon and planets and further detail later on as you upgrade will help boost the enthusiasm. 

Paul

[esxste]

It's less over exposed than my first attempt. It's good !

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rwilkey]

Hi Paul, I am a visual observer only and can't comment on AP.  However, I can comment on the Moon filter.  A metal rimmed one is better, the plastic ones tend to be difficult to screw into an eyepiece in the dark.  ND96 Moon Filters tend to be the best - ND = Neutral Density, there are three main types 0.9 with 13% light transmission, 0.6 with 25% transmission and 0.3 with 50% light transmission, the 0.9 tends to be my most used with the 0.6 close behind.  I have a preference for fixed density Moon filters, however, you can also get a variable polarising filter which can be adjusted to give between 1 and 40% light transmission, but personally I prefer to use the fixed ones as it means less faff in the dark.  And yes, you can place a filter on top of the ep if it has no filter thread, though one day I am sure you will want to get more ep's which will always normally have filter threads.

[davefrance]

You don't need a moon filter, but your might find viewing better with one. I'd give some thought to the Baader Neodynium filter, it's reputed to be a great all rounder for lunar, planetary, and even deep-sky viewing.

Webcams are usually attached in place of the eyepiece, not onto it.

You're spot on about DSLRs - when connected to your telescope at prime focus you're effectively using a 650mm f/5 lens.

If your DSLR has a AFS-C sensor you can multiply that by 1.5

[davefrance]

I haven't tried it but I've read that an old 35mm film canister with the end cut off and glued to a webcam is a perfect fit in 1.25" eyepiece holder 

[Langy]

Thanks for all the replies, thought I better give an update as to how I've been getting on.

I live in a small town near Carlisle, so do suffer from the dreaded light pollution, but I've found that my back garden is sheltered from any direct light (other than mine and neighbors houses with windows) that I can see quite a lot of the stars.

I've been lucky that since I got my telescope that every night I've had a small window of at least an hour where the cloud thinned or broke to at least see the moon and Jupiter sometime between 18:00 and around 1:00 in the morning.

The moon and Jupiter have been regular viewings, but now it's nice the moon is sliding back a little later leaving the sky a bit darker to see some more stars. Amazingly at 44 years old before I bought the telescope I knew only of the Plough, Cassipoeia and knew roughly how to find the north star. The last few days has helped greatly in that trying to find other objects I know am gradually learning more of the constellations, even though it is a slow process. A few days ago I could find Orions Belt, which tonight I have now picked out most or Orion apart from the arms.

Tonight has been lovely clear skies where I have viewed M42 in Orion and M31 in Andromeda. The latter being harder to find as the light pollution seems to be worse in that side of the sky.

Not sure now if I will get a moon filter, but may be an item that is added to my itinerary later on. I think that my next purchase will have to be the Barlow and Adapter for my DSLR.

I tried various phones on the Telescope during Saturday daytime, so I could see how easily they lined up etc. for afocal. With a bit of fiddling around I managed to get them lined up, but even in day light they were well over exposed, with whatever software I used. However Friday night I did take some afocal images with my 10 year old Canon PowerShot S45 which below you should see a Moon image and Jupiter. The Moon, I'm pretty pleased with as it was on the 20mm lens and Jupiter if you can start to see the two lines of the atmosphere. The moon shot was handheld to the Eye Piece where Jupiter the Canon was on a tripod which involved a log of fiddling, especially when I took too long and then had to move the telescope again, all to start over again.

On Saturday in day light I noticed that the 20mm Eye Piece has a dome to the top of the lens, making any cameras placed directly on top of it very difficult. With the 20mm you can place a camera flat on to the Eye Piece. So I was surprised how well the moon sot cam out, especially as you can't fill the frame without a vignette on the main image.

Regarding a Web Cam, I had thought about a Film Canister, I have a bag full in the loft somewhere which I may well use, updates to come later.

Thanks again for all your replies.