Upgrade from 130p?

[Tlawrence84]

Hi Guys,

I have had my Skywatcher 130p for a couple of years now, and the main issue I have had is that when I take my scope out, I get in a rut. I look at Jupiter, Orion Nebula, Andromeda, a few other easy to find objects and then get a bit cold and give up. I want something with a bit more power to improve what I currently consider as 'fairly good' (i think due to battling with light polution).

Fortunately, I have just been graced with a nice anniversary bonus at my work, so I have a budget of around £750 (slightly flexible there) to upgrade! I have been feeling for a while that I regret not getting a goto mount at the start of this hobby to help me along. My initial thoughts so far are:

£750 - Skywatcher 200p Flextube GOTO

£750 - Celestron 6se SCT GOTO

However, I am now toying with the idea of a small 102 Startravel goto AND a 200p Dobsonian, which may allow me to learn the sky and objects through a small scope, doubling up as a portable camping option too, with a powerful not slow to use but manual to find 8" dobsonian. This option would be just under £750.

Any thoughts on the above? I have a wide range of eye pieces I can use in a new scope, these are all 1.25" however so ideally they will need to work in the new larger scope. I will most likely sell or trade in the current 130p so won't be keeping that (lack of space for that and a Dob).

Also, is a 6" Mal/SCT much of an upgrade from a 5" reflector? (irrespective of mount).

Thanks

[nmoushon]

For visual use it all about the aperture. Go as big as your budget will allow. The 6" SCT will not be that but of an improvement over the 5" reflector. Especially if it has a large central obstruction. Your best upgrade will be the 200p GOTO. You will really enjoy this one. Your curreny EP is a good start. You can obviously buy more or better ones but not really neccessary especially if you're on a budget.

[AlexB67]

To rekindle that enthusiasm perhaps you should try bringing the 130p to a darker sky and see what it is capable of before deciding what you want.  Aperture is great and all, but not everything.  My 5 inch can give better views of galaxies out of town compared to a 10 inch at home. Of course I can see more in the 10 inch,  I can see targets I would not be able to see in the smaller scope but just to keep expectations in check with regard to light pollution, a dark sky is important too.

A 6 inch SCT wouid not be an upgrade from the 130 in terms of light gathering and what you can expect to see in terms of new objects. If you go that route of aperture upgrade, I'd say add about 4 inches is not a bad rule.  The SW 8 inch DOB is great instrument mind you, but I went from 5 to 10, that did really seem like a proper upgrade, the 5 inch still gets used though, it offers those unique lower power mag wider angle views too that the 10 inch cannot give me. 

[DaveNicko]

I agree with AlexB67. Take the 130p to a darker site and look at objects you can find quickly.

Do you have a good book? I have just bought Turn Left at Orion, and its a great way to learn some really nice objects ordered by the season. I find if you plan what you want to see every time you go out, you tend to get less bored.

I'm at the stage now where I can go out and find very quickly around 10-15 objects on any given night, maybe 30 (or more) throughout the year. But I will pick a few objects I haven't seen and try and find those until I can almost find them blindfolded.

With time you'll be able to take your scope out and realise there really isn't enough time in the night! I find pleasure in looking at objects I've seen hundreds of times. I still love looking at M42 and the Pleiades even only in binoculars.

And it helps to wrap up warm :-)

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk

[Joves]

Totally agree with the above post. The best way to keep from getting bored with this hobby is to roughly know what you want to look at ahead of time. Half the satisfaction, aside from the views of the more impressive looking objects, is actually finding (whether it be manually or with a GOTO) new objects and then trying to have at least some form of appreciation for what it is you are actually looking at (not everything up there looks impressive, but there isn't an object in the sky that isn't special when you consider what it is, how far away it sits and how large/old it is, etc.).

An upgrade will be nice, however, if you keep looking at the same targets, it too will get old quickly. By all means, grab a larger scope with GOTO if that will reignite some passion (I've done the same myself in the past), however, I think you'd be surprised by how much more your 5" will show you if you know where to look!

Best of luck!!

[Bart]

Yes an increase in aperture will open up more targets from home and a dark site. Also having a plan is really good. It's nice to hunt new objects. We all go back to the easy favourites anyway, buts it's good to look for a couple of new targets every time. More aperture will open that up to you. Go for an 8" or 10" Dob, would be my advice.

Good luck

Barry

[crimpshrine]

I have a SW 130. Although I am not upgrading yet I know that when I do it will be to either a 10 or 12". I am not too worried about goto but you can get them on the dobs too I believe at around your budget.

[Tlawrence84]

Thanks for the comments so far, an upgrade is definitely in the pipline as the money is ready for the end of the month (basically it's a gift from work)! I have looked at a couple of scopes today, and the 8" dobs don't seem too large to store (probably smaller footprint than what I currently have).

I do plan what I want to find, but then can't match the stars to the charts I have been using to the skies I can see, some of what are supposed to be bright are not even visible! Moving the scope to a dark sky is one of the objectives of a new scope, so it must be easy to move and quick to setup. For this reason, I am ruling out Maks or SCT's.

I am now down to. Choosing between,

8" Skywatcher 200p flextube goto

Or

8" manual dob and (for better observing)

Skywatcher star travel 102 goto refractor (to learn the skies)

I then have a choice of scopes to take when camping with the latter!

[DaveNicko]

I was out earlier and didn't find M81 and M82 even though I know where they are, so I know what you mean. I managed to find the clown face nebula in Gemini earlier but had to take the chart out with me and star hop to it.

If it were my choice and I definitely wanted a goto telescope I would probably get the goto dob and keep the 130p for camping if that's an option?

[Astropedro]

If its pure aperture you want to go for, try and stretch your budget to what Ive linked below.  Because they are a truss dob, they are quite portable.

http://www.scopesnskies.com/prod/meade/starter-scope/lightbridge12inch.html

I have also seen them selling for 600 to 700 pounds second hand but they dont come up often.

Anyway, its easy for us lot to spend your hard earned cash for you!  Get yourself the biggest you can afford in  my opinion.

[Tlawrence84]

The truss Dobs did interest me, but I wasn't sure if they are really quick to setup and put down again, ie I would like to pull the scope out of the garage and it to be ready within about 5mins! I know its a tall order, but dobs have that, and it removes that "i cant be bothered to spend 30mins setting up my scope"

A 12" is definately too big, I could stretch to a 10 if the budget allows (there is movement on my £750)

[Jules Tohpipi]

Hi Guys,

I have had my Skywatcher 130p for a couple of years now, and the main issue I have had is that when I take my scope out, I get in a rut. I look at Jupiter, Orion Nebula, Andromeda, a few other easy to find objects and then get a bit cold and give up. I want something with a bit more power to improve what I currently consider as 'fairly good' (i think due to battling with light polution).

Fortunately, I have just been graced with a nice anniversary bonus at my work, so I have a budget of around £750 (slightly flexible there) to upgrade! I have been feeling for a while that I regret not getting a goto mount at the start of this hobby to help me along. My initial thoughts so far are:

£750 - Skywatcher 200p Flextube GOTO

£750 - Celestron 6se SCT GOTO

However, I am now toying with the idea of a small 102 Startravel goto AND a 200p Dobsonian, which may allow me to learn the sky and objects through a small scope, doubling up as a portable camping option too, with a powerful not slow to use but manual to find 8" dobsonian. This option would be just under £750.

Any thoughts on the above? I have a wide range of eye pieces I can use in a new scope, these are all 1.25" however so ideally they will need to work in the new larger scope. I will most likely sell or trade in the current 130p so won't be keeping that (lack of space for that and a Dob).

Also, is a 6" Mal/SCT much of an upgrade from a 5" reflector? (irrespective of mount).

Thanks

I was extremely interested to read your post and would love to know how it eventually pans out for you.  Not just in terms of which scope you choose, but how satisfied you are with the results.  So if you have time to post again in a couple of months then I'd be very grateful really to hear your news.

Just like yourself, I too have got into a near identical rut that you describe - hence the interest.  Except I have the manual SW 200p dob already! So you might be interested to hear my story for comparison.

My basic problem is that I have relatively poor orientation awareness.  All was fine while growing up looking at the night sky; learning where the constellations were with cheap binoculars and cheap low-power refractors.  However, fast-forward a good few years to the 200p purchase, and this much more powerful instrument has laid bare just how bad my orientation skills are.  Yes, things look good once I've found them.  But bigger aperture also puts a whole lot more in the way to busy and confuse the picture once you're in the general vicinity!  'Turn Left at Orion' has not been as much help as I had hoped (my fault - not the book's).  Even the RACI has not been a major step forward.  The Whirpool galaxy took four nights of searching, over three weeks, and was found only by using the rings of my Telrad.  Being short of time is another problem (work and family commitments) - as is trying to do it all on my own. 

Anyhow... the realisation is beginning to dawn that priority number one is to actually see stuff.  That's the wonder of it all.  Anything after that - like learning my way around the sky - is just a bonus.

Hence why I'd be interested to hear your story as it unfolds.  Plus to let you know that a 200p dob has not stopped me ending up in your current situation.  I've been considering a GOTO version of the 200p or 250p from time to time - albeit a used example.   Of course, if I still had the luxury of planning my own time, and plenty of it, and knew left from right, then it would be a different story.

My understanding is that you don't necessarily have to use the GOTO function all the time i.e. the dob can be pushed instead, if you want to learn the sky yourself.

Good luck in your search and I hope you achieve what you're looking for.

[Tlawrence84]

Hi Jules,

Very interesting reply, I do find it difficult to star hop as moving the scope to the right will move the image left etc. I saw a book yesterday (which I think is now out of print) that has star charts and a telrad sight overlaid on them to show a sense of scale. It seems to show how to get to the object almost instantly, googling "telrad star charts" or something similar may show some of these.

Your comments are making me sway towards a full goto 8" dob. I don't think I can stored much more than that. I am also very restricted to south and south east views in my garden which doesn't help. I hope that doesn't affect my aligning of a goto!

Time is a factor for me also, hence being able to get out a scope and start viewing as quickly as possible. Out of interest, how long does it take you to start observing from the point you decide to start using your scope?

[John]

Time is a factor for me also, hence being able to get out a scope and start viewing as quickly as possible. Out of interest, how long does it take you to start observing from the point you decide to start using your scope?

Putting the scope out and setting it up does not take much time but you do need to allow a scope time to cool before it will work well at high magnifications. For an 8" scope this is typically 20-40 minutes, depending on the temperature change between where the scope is stored and the outside air.

[Naemeth]

The truss Dobs did interest me, but I wasn't sure if they are really quick to setup and put down again, ie I would like to pull the scope out of the garage and it to be ready within about 5mins! I know its a tall order, but dobs have that, and it removes that "i cant be bothered to spend 30mins setting up my scope"

A 12" is definately too big, I could stretch to a 10 if the budget allows (there is movement on my £750)

A 10" manual dob is only £435 .

[Tlawrence84]

hmm, that 10" dob, plus this http://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/skywatcher-startravel-102-synscan-az-goto.html seem like a very tempting combination.

The 1 and only review on there for the 102 refractor also says "Bought as a quick grab an go scope for when the 10" is too much"...

[DaveNicko]

That's sounds like a good combination!

[Jules Tohpipi]

Hi Jules,

Very interesting reply, I do find it difficult to star hop as moving the scope to the right will move the image left etc. I saw a book yesterday (which I think is now out of print) that has star charts and a telrad sight overlaid on them to show a sense of scale. It seems to show how to get to the object almost instantly, googling "telrad star charts" or something similar may show some of these.

Your comments are making me sway towards a full goto 8" dob. I don't think I can stored much more than that. I am also very restricted to south and south east views in my garden which doesn't help. I hope that doesn't affect my aligning of a goto!

Time is a factor for me also, hence being able to get out a scope and start viewing as quickly as possible. Out of interest, how long does it take you to start observing from the point you decide to start using your scope?

Yes, it's the star hopping that I find difficult.  The LP doesn't help albeit it's not too bad here, but it definitely has an effect.  I've tried out some of those Telrad star charts and I find them much easier to navigate with than the view finder, so that's great.  But in certain areas of the sky, the LP can mask the fainter stars and I have to jump back to the view finder - and that's where my problems begin. 

In principle, once I've opened the conservatory door, I can be viewing through my dob in around two minutes.  The dob lives assembled in the garage.  So, I open the back door of the garage, lift the dob (complete) by its two handles, drop it on the patio, remove the plastic aperture cover, stick in an EP, and I'm viewing.  It really is as faff free as it's possible to be!  Finding the key to the back door, finding my thermal socks, and putting on the extra layers of clothing are more time consuming than setting up the dob.  Typically I'll do a one-minute dash in my t-shirt to the garage and pop the telescope outside (taking off the cover) and then return twenty minutes later after it has cooled down.  But honestly the viewing is still good if I start immediately and perfect within ten minutes.

Sometimes the dob lives in the spare room upstairs.  Once I tried to carry it down the stairs complete and had a scary moment.  So now I carry the base down first then the OTA.  The OTA is secured to the base with two screw-in handles - no tools required.  If you're looking for quick fuss-free observing, then dobs are perfect.

As I say, it took me hours and hours to finally find M51.  Knowing where to look was easy - right next to that star at the start of The Plough!  I had enough aperture to see it.  Yet here I was three nights later still completely stumped.  I say all this because I wonder how much that smaller scope is actually going to help you come to looking through a big 10" manual dob?  Yes, you'll know the general vicinity, but will you be able to see the DSOs with the smaller aperture anyway? And I wonder how many more (cluttering) stars will be in view when you switch to the dob?  I use those words very cautiously as I'm not an expert, but it's on my mind.  Conversely, the smaller scope is far less bulky to throw into the back of the car for a night out.

I've got a Skoda Superb so transporting the dob is not a problem; the base fits in complete behind the passenger's seat!  I could probably get the Hubble in the back.  But I'm a bit worried (rightly or wrongly) about being out on my own at night, out in the wilderness but still by a road with cars occasionally passing, all on my own with a big white expensive-looking item.  So I've yet to make it out to one of the local darker sites.

Hmm, all this talk is starting to gee me up about getting a GOTO dob.  I haven't been out as much this winter and it's partly due to the frustration of trying to find new things to see... 

[asset189]

OP , I too have a 130p synscan goto and love it. im fortunate that i have dark skies nearby so im never short of targets. That said in the summer the dreaded aperture fever kicked in and I after a bit of soul searching and bean counting i plumped for a manual Skywatcher Skyliner 200p dobsonian as it was not beyond my budget and generally most reviews suggest its possible the best in its class. The go to was way out of my league and a further step up to a 250 truss type although appealing, was beyond what i could justify financially.  

The 200p is, for its price spectacular and with a bit of research and a couple of low cost mods I ve manged to turn it into a manual go-to which can find any object within its range provided I have the alt -az coordinates. Tracking is manual but easy enough once you get into the way of it.

The weight of the OTA and base is somewhere aound the 26kg mark but managible when the tube and base are seperated for transport. I take it out in my small car no probs and can set up in half the time of the 130P, the only real alignment i need to make is to set the base level and align on bright star like capella. Its simplicityb its self. The purists may say that you should star hop but to be honest i like to get ot where im going as far as possible particularly with the weather we have.

Im delighted with it and for me and the amount of use it gets its just right. I still use the 130p at times as well but more often than not the simplicity of the Dob wins.

[Tlawrence84]

Hi asset189,

I understand that dark skies is just as (if not more) important as aperture. When in comparable sites, like your garden, do you really notice the detail difference between the 130 and the 200? Do you see more of a defined shape rather than a smudge when looking at andromeda galaxy for example?

(P.s. Please take the smudge comment with a pinch of salt, I know about averted vision, letting your eyes get adjusted to the dark etc)

[asset189]

Hi asset189,

I understand that dark skies is just as (if not more) important as aperture. When in comparable sites, like your garden, do you really notice the detail difference between the 130 and the 200? Do you see more of a defined shape rather than a smudge when looking at andromeda galaxy for example?

(P.s. Please take the smudge comment with a pinch of salt, I know about averted vision, letting your eyes get adjusted to the dark etc)

Short answer is yes with a capital Y. Thinks like the cluster in Hercules are far better defined, ive also seen the ring nebula in lyra as a well defined "smoke" ring from my garden . The best advjce i can give you is find some one who has one near you and have a good look, try local astronomy group.

[Tlawrence84]

Having now sold my scope, and after a lot of browsing through various sites, I'm swinging towards buying a 10" manual dob with flextube and a small refractor/schmidt with goto (all from skywatcher).

My reasoning is that a 10" is just as impractical as an 8" to travel with (it would have to sit on the back seat of a Jaguar saloon as it won't be safe in the boot), whereas a 102 Startravel refractor or 127 mak on the goto mount will be easily portable and quick to use.

Both will be grab and go for the garden, and a goto (I hope) would help me find those elusive objects or point me very close to their locations, by using a telrad between both to see what is being aimed at. Are there any holes in this theory? It actually works out cheaper than a 10" with goto also.

[Jules Tohpipi]

Having now sold my scope, and after a lot of browsing through various sites, I'm swinging towards buying a 10" manual dob with flextube and a small refractor/schmidt with goto (all from skywatcher).

My reasoning is that a 10" is just as impractical as an 8" to travel with (it would have to sit on the back seat of a Jaguar saloon as it won't be safe in the boot), whereas a 102 Startravel refractor or 127 mak on the goto mount will be easily portable and quick to use.

Both will be grab and go for the garden, and a goto (I hope) would help me find those elusive objects or point me very close to their locations, by using a telrad between both to see what is being aimed at. Are there any holes in this theory? It actually works out cheaper than a 10" with goto also.

It's an interesting choice and situation you're presented with.

In my uninformed view...

On the one hand, it might be nice to have as much aperture as possible (the 10") and in addition something that's easy to sling into the boot (the 102).  The 102 might be good if children or friends are involved because, as they say, dob nudging is not a good spectator sport. 

On the other hand, I can see good reason for just getting the 8" GOTO.  For garden use it is just as grab and go as the 102.  For driving to dark sites, will you have room to take both?  Otherwise you're faced with a choice of finding stuff the smaller scope, or potentially not finding stuff with big boy.  If you've got room in the car then is it really that much extra hassle to pack  the dob? 

Having seen some faint fuzzies through my 8", I'm not entirely convinced just how game-changing an improvement there would be with a 10".  They are still going to be very faint, colourless and smudgy.  Plus the 10" is said to be harder on its EPs.

Personally, I would be tempted to go just with the 8" Goto as a great solution for the garden, and manage the slightly extra hassle of loading the car when venturing out.  Every time I've doubled up on something (e.g. owning cars) it always seems more that double the hassle.  I've retained the box for my 8" OTA and it packs back in very easily - without adding greatly to the OTA's dimensions - meaning that  I could venture out with it quickly and safely. 

But you may have other compelling thoughts and reasons on your mind that you've not typed out here.  So the above is just some idle and fun musing.  Buying telescopes is a nice task to be thinking about!

Either way, I remain very keen to hear how you get on.

[patomlin76]

Hi

I'd like to add my own thoughts on keeping your enthusiasm up even though I know you've sold your old 130p.

At the end of the day your newer scope will show more detail and clarity on many objects in the night sky, but at the same time feint smudges in the sky will be just more defined smudges in the sky. Which leads me on to how I try not to get stuck in a rut when stargazing.

I download monthly star maps from the web, and they include lists of what is visible in the sky, some of which need more powerful scopes than I own. However it helps keep the enthusiasm up as you're trying to tick as many things off the list as possible. You'll be able to do much more than me with my 130p!!!

I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever size scope you get next, it's just that I believe enthusiasm can dwindle no matter the power of your scope - and for me getting a target in mind before even setting up really helps a lot.

Happy stargazing!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[Tlawrence84]

I think I've settled on the startravel 102 goto, to help me learn the skies and to give me a very portable scope. And for garden use, I will go for the 250px trusstube dob from skywatcher also, which can sometimes go on a weekend of stargazing.

I just have a question regarding the dob,

How does it perform at high mags on a fast moving object, for example trying to view the Great Red Spot on Jupiter or see the Cassini division on Saturns rings? I have been advised that objects might move out of the field of view very quickly and nudging the scope doesn't like 'tiny' movements, it jerks rather than like a slow motion movement on an EQ mount.