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NGC 2264 - The Cone Nebula. Now THATS dark...

Alveprinsen

By Alveprinsen
in Getting Started With Imaging

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Alveprinsen

Alveprinsen

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Ok, so I managed to squeeze out 6 hours 20 minutes of exposure last night...

I was originally gonna go for M78, but considering the moon was up and M78 is so faint, I went with the next best thing... NGC 2264. :)

Anyhow, here's the pic.

Lights: 38x 10 minutes

Darks: 35x 10 minutes

Bias: 30

Flats: 30

ISO: 800

Total exposure: 6h 20 minutes.

NGC2264small.jpg

Now, this doesnt look much like the images that popped up when I googled this thing... Which leads me to believe that this is one h€ll of a dark nebula.

I guess I will need like 24 hours of exposure to really see anything. Intriguing! :D This will make a nice target for my new camera...

Anyhow, thought I'd share it. It looks amazing though, like.. if you google it... Not so much with my camera however... :p

Sincerely, Alveprinsen.

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Alveprinsen

Alveprinsen

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What scope and mount did you use? Refractor with an off axis guider by any chance?

Lovely stuff.

Evostar 80ED on a NEQ6 Pro mount. Guided side-by-side with a Startraveler 102/500 scope, using an Orion Starshoot autoguider camera.

I hate those off axis guiders... :p But soon I will have to use it...

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PhotoGav

PhotoGav

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That looks like an interesting effort - haven't tried it myself yet, but it's on my target list and no doubt once I've made my attempt, I will be reposting to say what a fantastic image yours is!!!

My interest here is with photographing DSOs with lots of moonlight around... Is there really any point? I know that you can get results, but is it worth the effort when compared to a moonless effort?

Opinions please as I may be completely mistaken?

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Twisted Lip

Twisted Lip

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Evostar 80ED on a NEQ6 Pro mount. Guided side-by-side with a Startraveler 102/500 scope, using an Orion Starshoot autoguider camera.

I hate those off axis guiders... :p But soon I will have to use it...

Interesting you used a side by side set up, I could never get one to work with my NEQ6 so went up and under in the end :) I don't have any experience of off-axis guiders but I'm interested as to why you don't like them?

On the image, it really is great and I like it a lot. Cracking effort!

Will

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Alveprinsen

Alveprinsen

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My interest here is with photographing DSOs with lots of moonlight around... Is there really any point? I know that you can get results, but is it worth the effort when compared to a moonless effort?

Opinions please as I may be completely mistaken?

Well, I started imaging NGC2264 at 23:45 pm - at which time the moon was up and at 3/4 full. However, at 02:15 the moon disapeared below the horizont, at which time the frames became substantially better. I had a look at one of the light frames with the moon up and one with the moon down, and the difference is... well... insane.

With the moon up you could image stuff like Andromeda, and M42 the Orion Nebula - because they are super strong. However, you might not want to use those frames in combination with frames taken under better conditions as they will just pollute the final image. If you're looking to just fooling around with your gear, you can do it with the moon up though, but the results arent gonna be great.. They are in fact gonna be a littlebit.. well, crappy...

HOWEVER... If you are doing narrow-band imaging with a CCD camera, you can still do it... But if you're imaging with a one-shot color camera or DSLR - dont bother... that is, unless you're just looking to have some fun, and not being too concerned about the results. :)

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Alveprinsen

Alveprinsen

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Interesting you used a side by side set up, I could never get one to work with my NEQ6 so went up and under in the end :) I don't have any experience of off-axis guiders but I'm interested as to why you don't like them?

Well, I bought an OAG last year when I was just getting into this hobby. The frustration of not getting it to work has probably left me filled with prejudice and contempt...

One issue though is that the OAG sees a very tiny part of the total field of view of the scope, thus making it difficult to find a good guiding star.

Also, focusing both the imaging camera AND the OAG camera can be somewhat of a pain.

with side-by-side guiding, in my case - my guiding scope has a field of view equal to that of the imaging camera. I can pick my guiding star from a whole pile of'em...

I dont see how you were unable to get side-by-side guiding to work, unless the guiding scope was substancially weaker than the imaging scope. As long as the side-by-side dual dovetail saddle is pretty tight, there should be no noticeable flexture and stuff between the scopes. Mine are tighter than the pope's @rse, and I can do 10 minute exposures without breaking a sweat. I bet I could do 20 - 30 - 60 minute exposures as well. The guiding is very accurate.

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PhotoGav

PhotoGav

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Well, I started imaging NGC2264 at 23:45 pm - at which time the moon was up and at 3/4 full. However, at 02:15 the moon disapeared below the horizont, at which time the frames became substantially better. I had a look at one of the light frames with the moon up and one with the moon down, and the difference is... well... insane.

With the moon up you could image stuff like Andromeda, and M42 the Orion Nebula - because they are super strong. However, you might not want to use those frames in combination with frames taken under better conditions as they will just pollute the final image. If you're looking to just fooling around with your gear, you can do it with the moon up though, but the results arent gonna be great.. They are in fact gonna be a littlebit.. well, crappy...

HOWEVER... If you are doing narrow-band imaging with a CCD camera, you can still do it... But if you're imaging with a one-shot color camera or DSLR - dont bother... that is, unless you're just looking to have some fun, and not being too concerned about the results. :)

Thanks for this info. That concurs with what I have experienced so far. So, at least it appears that I'm not doing something wrong!

As for narrow-band with CCD camera - my wish list is growing faster than my bank balance, so for now, i can but dream......!

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Twisted Lip

Twisted Lip

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Well, I bought an OAG last year when I was just getting into this hobby. The frustration of not getting it to work has probably left me filled with prejudice and contempt...

One issue though is that the OAG sees a very tiny part of the total field of view of the scope, thus making it difficult to find a good guiding star.

Also, focusing both the imaging camera AND the OAG camera can be somewhat of a pain.

with side-by-side guiding, in my case - my guiding scope has a field of view equal to that of the imaging camera. I can pick my guiding star from a whole pile of'em...

I dont see how you were unable to get side-by-side guiding to work, unless the guiding scope was substancially weaker than the imaging scope. As long as the side-by-side dual dovetail saddle is pretty tight, there should be no noticeable flexture and stuff between the scopes. Mine are tighter than the pope's @rse, and I can do 10 minute exposures without breaking a sweat. I bet I could do 20 - 30 - 60 minute exposures as well. The guiding is very accurate.

Even though I've never tried an OAG I feel your pain - my Astro cupboard is full of bits that I just couldn't get to work for me but other people seem to have loads of success with!

With side by side I mainly had two problems, one less of an issue, one more. Firstly when I used a wide(ish) losmandy plate with vixen clamps either end (one for the main scope, one for the guider) the angle of attack didn't line up with the mount (I use an nEQ6 mount at about 51 degrees here in the UK, but the main scope was aiming up about 52/53 degrees - well above Polaris when the mount was polar aligned). I assumed this was a flaw in the plate but I could never fix it. Second problem was that as the mount rotated through RA, the plate hit the legs of the mount! That was harder to sort out :/

Cheers

Will

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Alveprinsen

Alveprinsen

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With side by side I mainly had two problems, one less of an issue, one more. Firstly when I used a wide(ish) losmandy plate with vixen clamps either end (one for the main scope, one for the guider) the angle of attack didn't line up with the mount (I use an nEQ6 mount at about 51 degrees here in the UK, but the main scope was aiming up about 52/53 degrees - well above Polaris when the mount was polar aligned). I assumed this was a flaw in the plate but I could never fix it. Second problem was that as the mount rotated through RA, the plate hit the legs of the mount! That was harder to sort out :/

Cheers

Will

Hmm... What kind of scopes did you use? and what focal length? I dont have any experience with the losmandy plates.....

If the focal length was fairly short, say 500mm and 600mm like in my setup, the two scopes should be looking at pretty much the same area of the sky.

When I look at my guide-scope screen, I can clearly see that the scope view is offset to the left of the view of my actual imaging camera...

Was your guiding scope piggy-backed on the main scope, or side-by-side like with mine?

sidebyside.jpg

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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You've some very nice data there. In processing you could gain more control of the dynamic range. At the moment everything is highly stretched so the stars have burned out, but using Layers or masks or both you can have the faint nebulosity stretched on the one hand and yet have the stars less stretched on the other.

When you try to catch this in any one shot colour camera you're being fairly inefficient. If you take a moderately short colour layer and then add Ha you boost the nebulosity without blowing out the stars. 

This is with an Ha layer to find the faint nebulosity. (It's why I'm wedded to mono cameras.) http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/i-MTkpFmN/0/X3/CONE%20HaLRGB%20CONVENTIONAL%20COLOUR%20copy-X3.jpg

Olly

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Alveprinsen

Alveprinsen

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You've some very nice data there. In processing you could gain more control of the dynamic range. At the moment everything is highly stretched so the stars have burned out, but using Layers or masks or both you can have the faint nebulosity stretched on the one hand and yet have the stars less stretched on the other.

Like this?:

NGC2264small2.jpg

I used like... 4 layers...

Oh, and I tried to be careful with the stretching. I stretched until the noise came out, then stopped. Then I applied noise reduction in Photoshop to take some of the edge off... :)

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Alveprinsen

Alveprinsen

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prefer the colours in the nebulosity in the first one to be honest, and i think it brings out the dark nebulosity better as well...

Guess I just need more data.

I didnt want to over-stretch it like I did with the first pic, so I stopped where I was at.

I guess I could saturate it even further, but.... nah... better just get more data. Another 7 - 14 hours should do the trick...

Now, to get rid of that damn moon!

Oh, speaking of moon... For those of you who own smart-phones (I assume the majority below the age of 85), I downloaded a really nice moon phase app last night. Its called Phase of the Moon Pro. (theres a freeware version as well). Its pretty kickass. :)

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PhotoGav

PhotoGav

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Good shout with the app - looks like a useful addition to the iphone arsenal.

Where are you at with cameras? Have you decided what to go for, I seem to remember you were looking at some super-cooled canon Dutch monster...?! Or are you going CCD style?

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Alveprinsen

Alveprinsen

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Good shout with the app - looks like a useful addition to the iphone arsenal.

Where are you at with cameras? Have you decided what to go for, I seem to remember you were looking at some super-cooled canon Dutch monster...?! Or are you going CCD style?

I'm awaiting my Ultimate Deep Cooled Canon 600D. :)http://www.jtwastronomy.com/products/ultimate.html

This friday it will have been 4 weeks since I put in the order. Expected delivery time is estimated to 6 weeks... so.. slowly getting there. :)

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