Dob Dob Dob

[starwonder]

Looking to buy a 8-10" dobsonian...

Can anyone advise on the quality of a Revelation dobsonian compared to a SkyWatcher or Orion Optics (UK) dob?

Thanks.

[John]

The Skywatcher and the Revelation are about the same overall, both with their quirks and stronger points and optically very similar. Orion Optics dobs are lighter and have a more compact footprint and, depending on the optical quality selected, can be optically superb. The UK made Orion Optics dobs do cost quite a bit more than the Skywatcher and Revelation equivalents.

You can play around with the specs of the Orion Optics scopes to suit your needs and basically have the scope that you want, if you have the extra £'s that is.

[Andy_E]

The revelations tend to get decent reviews (I haven't owned one myself), and I imagine it would be fairly similar to the SW. I think it would be fair to say the OOUK would be a cut above the other two options though.

[Lee M]

Plenty of secondhand 200Ps knocking around at the moment so an opportunity to get a bargain. Quite a few 250s but people seem to be holding out for, IMO, rather inflated prices.

[bingevader]

The SW 8" dob is ridiculously good value for money and get very few if any bad reviews. They are far more than the "ideal starter" 'scope they are sometimes marketed as.

However, if/when ever I upgrade, it will be to a 12" OOUK! 

Cheers

[starwonder]

I must admit my first scope was going to be a 10" OOUK but I'm hesitating for some reason that I don't know why, maybe it's because of the significant price difference?  Not sure but either way the OOUK is surely built far better than some other dob's out there?

For one thing you can specify a high grade PV on the primary mirror, what focuser to use, the simple but easy-gliding Dob mount with a much smaller footprint and slicker than any other Dob I've seen - what finder, EP's, etc. etc.  It seems a fully customisable setup from new, so you get exactly what you want from the off.  I guess that is attractive to some people, like me.  But do I need all that in my first scope?  Will I be satisfied with another make that isn't up to the high expectations that I'm under the impression I'd get from an OO, will I be kicking myself that I should have just got what I wanted in the first place and relished the "happy" feeling?  And knowing that I've bought a fully British made product with the care OO take to hand finished all there mirrors.

It is a quandary and as you and other's have said bingevader there is nothing to touch the 8" SW at that price but I guess it's whether I will regret not going for the OO in the first place and actually save myself £300 instead of buying first the SW and then the OO later on.

[oldfruit]

I have one of the newer Revelation dobs and i am very happy with it. I have compared it side by side with the same size Skywatcher  scope and visually there is nothing in it. I would say that the bearings and the supplied focuser are better on the Revelation scope though. Unfortunately i have not had the chance to look through a similar sized Orion scope but agree with the above about more options to customise mirror etc.

[Rob63]

I think it depends on how much you get in to astronomy.

If this is your first scope spending a lot of money may not be a good idea as so many people buy a scope which gets used once or twice and then gathers dust.

Cold weather and faint fuzzies are not for everyone.

Maybe starting with a pair of Binos would be better to see if you enjoy observing (or even better borrowing a scope).

I personally went for the SW for the above reasons and I really love being out there with it, cold weather and all.

I don't have any regrets about not spending more on a better quality scope and will probably make mods as I go on.

[Reeny]

I am looking for something similar and decided to look at the Skywatcher rather than the Revelation.

I get the feeling that the parts are all made in the same asian country, then assembled to manufacturers specification.

So rightly or wrongly, my assumption is that the equipment will be very similar in each price range.

Saying that - the Revelation optics I have on the 15x70 binoculars, barlow, and Plossl's are excellent.

If I needed a 10" dob - the Revelation would suit me better with the 10:1 focuser / option to use the cooling fan / 32mm wide view eyepiece.

If I needed an 8" dob - The Skywatcher beats everything else with value for money.

[starwonder]

I think it depends on how much you get in to astronomy.

If this is your first scope spending a lot of money may not be a good idea as so many people buy a scope which gets used once or twice and then gathers dust.

Cold weather and faint fuzzies are not for everyone.

Maybe starting with a pair of Binos would be better to see if you enjoy observing (or even better borrowing a scope).

I personally went for the SW for the above reasons and I really love being out there with it, cold weather and all.

I don't have any regrets about not spending more on a better quality scope and will probably make mods as I go on.

You have a very good point Rob63.  I currently use my 10x50 bino's which have given me some nice views from a dark site but limited views from my back garden but they are unable to resolve the bands of Jupiter or Saturns rings.  They have there limitations but I agree they are a very good start to astronomoy.

But I think another point you mention concerning the regularity of its use may be something I've not considered.  Maybe it won't get used as often as I planned and if that were the case I may feel as though I've wasted my money on buying a really pucka scope which hardly gets used.  It's a really good point and with all the other activities going on in my life time is not a lot I have in my favour. 

I don't think the SW has a fan on the primary does it?  Does it take long to cool down, anyone?

[Rob63]

No it doesnt have a fan, I generally put it outside about 1/2 hour before use and that seems fine.

I started a thread on this very topic http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/195877-reflector-cool-down/

[AndyWB]

I have one of the newer Revelation dobs and i am very happy with it.

May I ask how old it is, and what condition it's mirror is in? I'd read in a few places that the old GSO scopes had uncoated mirrors, and degraded after a while. However, if they're coated now, well, the Revelation scopes would be very compelling.

[AlexB67]

There are some differences, for example the Orion skyquest scopes come with a red dot finder usually, the GSO with some other nice extras like a cooling fan.  All in all, If not buying the more expensive OO optics versions OOUK in a price league of their own, the rest of the makes like Orion US, GSO  Sky-watcher it is a bit of close call I get the feeling. small differences, some bits better build than other bits,  but after all they are in competition and I get the impression they offer similar quality overall in a slightly different package. Also worth mentioning if size and compactness is of concern, which was a considerable factor in my case to fit a DOB in the car while not use it all up in one go, the truss or flextube designs may be useful. 

All these things are worth considering before buying. You'll have to decide which ones are important I guess.  Have fun buying

[oldfruit]

May I ask how old it is, and what condition it's mirror is in? I'd read in a few places that the old GSO scopes had uncoated mirrors, and degraded after a while. However, if they're coated now, well, the Revelation scopes would be very compelling.

I bought it second hand this year and it was quite new then. It has the metal tension adjusters on the sides as opposet to the awful looking handles with springs on the earlier models. They really are easy to adjust by turning them to tighten or slacken the tension off.  The condition of the mirrors is excellent. When i bought the scope i removed the mirrors to clean them and could see no degradation on the mirror or coatings what so ever.

I have also read the same things as you regarding the coatings but i am unable to confirm this either way. All i can say is that the scope i have has good mirrors and performs very well in all respects.

[bendiddley]

i have a sw 200p dob and i am very pleased with it. it performs very well indeed.

[AlexB67]

May I ask how old it is, and what condition it's mirror is in? I'd read in a few places that the old GSO scopes had uncoated mirrors, and degraded after a while. However, if they're coated now, well, the Revelation scopes would be very compelling.

My understanding was that they were coated, but the quality was not so good ? The jury is still out on that for me. I made some enquiries, never got a reply ( surprised ? no  )  John mentioned in a post where he stated they started showing signs of deterioration within a year, but I have not heard  of complaint that views were affected that quickly ... afaik. If you look at other forums, cloudy nights also, it seems to be a kind of unofficial word in some posts that there are, or have been some issues at some stage, whether it is still true for the GSO models of today I am not sure.  That being said I have also heard many, many happy reports.

Note also that in the GSO scopes there are different models, there is a cheaper and a more expensive one in the 10 inch that differ. I do not know if the optics are identical in both, for example the 250c and the 880 differ by over a hundred pounds.  Welcome to picking the right one for you

[RikM]

I must admit my first scope was going to be a 10" OOUK but I'm hesitating for some reason that I don't know why, maybe it's because of the significant price difference?  Not sure but either way the OOUK is surely built far better than some other dob's out there?

For one thing you can specify a high grade PV on the primary mirror, what focuser to use, the simple but easy-gliding Dob mount with a much smaller footprint and slicker than any other Dob I've seen - what finder, EP's, etc. etc.  It seems a fully customisable setup from new, so you get exactly what you want from the off.  I guess that is attractive to some people, like me.  But do I need all that in my first scope?  Will I be satisfied with another make that isn't up to the high expectations that I'm under the impression I'd get from an OO, will I be kicking myself that I should have just got what I wanted in the first place and relished the "happy" feeling?  And knowing that I've bought a fully British made product with the care OO take to hand finished all there mirrors.

It is a quandary and as you and other's have said bingevader there is nothing to touch the 8" SW at that price but I guess it's whether I will regret not going for the OO in the first place and actually save myself £300 instead of buying first the SW and then the OO later on.

I don't know if it is still the case, but it used to be said that while optically the OOUK scopes were head and shoulders better than mass produced scopes, the build quality was not always up to the standard you might expect from a premium manufacturer. I know more than one person who has taken OO mirrors and transplanted them into SkyWatcher tubes because the construction is better.

[starwonder]

That's a neat idea RickM, might be worth a look at later on if I want more optical precision out of the SW.

[AlexB67]

That's a neat idea RickM, might be worth a look at later on if I want more optical precision out of the SW.

I had that thought myself too as an alternative solution in the future perhaps, but in the end of the day I doubt the difference on average is not always that important in many scenarios ( atmpsheric effects often being a factor  I expect).   The more expensive options Orion UK offer are essentially getting towards research level optics, like  1/8PV and over perhaps. Seeing I'll probably enjoy my stars with less for time to come I am sure the 1/4PV Synta optics or GSO variant will give very pleasant views at that aperture.  I don't know yet though, I just assembled my 10 inch over lunch. I have to say that the build quality in the SW flex 10 inch  seems solid to me on first impressions,  rotating it about on the rocker box etc, very smooth  

[starwonder]

The biggest hurdle I have with the SW 200P is the dob mount/base, it is just too big and heavy compared to the OO dob/mount so I have taken advise from a friend of mine who has a OO 8" Dob, the dob mount on this IMO is far better than the SW Dob mount. For one it has a smaller footprint, it is lighter, easier to carry (therefore more portable) and yet very stable.  I aim to buy an OOUK dob/mount and a SW 200P OTA, however when I looked on FLO to find the OTA SW 200P I can't see it as available!  Does this mean that isn't an option?  The nearest OTA I can find is an Explorer 200P but that has a shorted focal length by 200mm and is an f5 not an f6 - what is going on?  

[John]

Good luck on buying an OO dob mount. I was quoted over £400 for a mount for my OO 12" F/5.3 tube. OO tubes are a little thinner than Skywatcher ones by around 1 inch which makes things a little complicated. A friend made one for me to the same pattern / dimensions from 18mm ply and it's excellent.

You can't buy the SW 200P dob tubes separately as far as I'm aware.

Sorry to be negative but these things are a bit more complex than they seem at first 

I have seen folks who have sliced off the edges of their SW dob mounts to get them to fit through doors or even constructed a bespoke bottom section of the mount and just used the SW uprights to support the scope.

[starwonder]

Thanks for your feedback John, may have to re-think my strategy sadly.

I know someone who makes his own dob bases too and they are really very good, lovely finish he gets on them.  Don't think I have the time or the necessary tools to do the same though.

I've emailed FLO requesting their advice on this as well.

Thanks for the base re-design ideas.

[starwonder]

Confirmed by FLO the OTA cannot be bought separately, that's that plan blown out of the water!  Back to the drawing board I guess.

[AndyWB]

I know more than one person who has taken OO mirrors and transplanted them into SkyWatcher tubes because the construction is better.

Now, that's an interesting idea. Not that I'd be in a hurry to do so, but it does raise the point that problems with a Revelation mirror, should they occur, needn't be the end of the scope...

[AlexB67]

Another option, Dob mounts are not that hard to make if you have the tools yourself I get the impression.  Have a search around the net, there are numerous articles around with ready made designs and plans when I looked into this, but do not have the bookmarks at the ready.  My main concern with the mount on the SW seeing it is some kind of chipboard is that in time it will go perhaps due to warping, for example when placing on a damp surface repeatedly or something like that in a garden. I may have to think about a mat of sorts to help.