M33 Triangulum question

[mcut]

i am star hopping to find stuff. I have a skymax 127 Mak, Baader 40mm RDF. am awaiting delivery of "second scope" so i can call myself proper - a WO ZS 66 SD APO.

i am doing quite well at finding Messiers and the like. so far i have found m13,

m27 dumbbell, m31, m34 perseus, perseus double cluster, m42, m45, m57 ring, m92 Hercules glob.

problem i have is i found all of the above after at most 10 mins searching.

why can't i find M33 Triangulum. i thought it was visible, certainly in binos but my 8x21's don't show it.

is my 127 mak too narrow a field even with 25mm eyepiece to show anything?

[blinky]

Well... I found it but with my 8" Newt. Even then is was a very very faint fuz, hardly visible at all. There is no way I would find it with Bino's or the ZS66. It took me a few days to find it it is the faintest object I have yet found and I would not like to try and find it with anything less than the 8" Newt! If I remember it is quite easy to star hop too but I did not realise I was looking at it for a few days!

[cygnusx1]

I personally have never managed to view it even thru my C9.25.

Could of course be my relative inexperienced observational abilities, but i think its too diffuse an object.

[barkis]

M33 is over 2 million light years away Mcut. The total light of the galaxy is equivalent to a star of Visual Magnitude 5.3, but as M33 is about 1 degree across, It's surface brightness is low. A fast scope under good conditions will show it, and likely seen using your peripheral vision.

It shows up well in long exposure images, and some guys on SGL have got some incredible pictures of it, which you have probably seen yourself.

Ron.

[James]

I've seen it in my 10" reflector from a fairly dark site but its so faint that I've never been entirely sure it was there. I was only able to tell something was there by panning a degree or two to one side and then back to see the difference in background brightness. I certainly couldn't make anything out other than the fact it was there.

However, I have seen it with the naked eye from a dark spot in Devon...albeit with averted vision.

James

[mcut]

ok, so perhaps i should not be able to find it.

i was only thinking i had done something wrong as some Messier catalogue sites say things such as this:-

"For the observer, this galaxy can be glanced with the naked eye under exceptionally good conditions; for most people, it is the most distant object visible to the naked eye (there are rare reports that some eagle-eyed stargazers managed to see M81 under exceptional conditions, but this is exceptional with all respects). It is outstanding in good binoculars"

that was why i thought i would be able to find it

thanks all for posts

[lunator]

Hi Mcut

I have never seen it in my 8" wscope from London (Mag 4.5 skies) but at kelling it was very clearly visible in the 8".

M33 is all about the background sky brightness.

Anything above mag 5.5 from a site and you will struggle to see it.

Cheers

Ian

[cygnusx1]

some Messier catalogue sites say things such as this:-

"For the observer, this galaxy can be glanced with the naked eye under exceptionally good conditions; for most people, it is the most distant object visible to the naked eye (there are rare reports that some eagle-eyed stargazers managed to see M81 under exceptional conditions, but this is exceptional with all respects). It is outstanding in good binoculars"

can you point me to the site where you got this from? i could do with this sort of info.

[blinky]

I read these kinds of comments all the time. I have to say I was dissapointed with M33 through the 'scope but I did get a decent (for me anyway!) image of it.

[Sam]

When I first got my 8" I straight away looked for Andromeda (easier enough to find) and then M33. Well M33 was a different story, it was very faint and very hard to see - I think I only found it by luck. It's definitely an averted vision target! Good luck on finding it!

[MartinB]

I can see it through an F7.5 ED120 with a mag5 sky - but it is very faint. Your eyes have to be reasonably dark adapted and "tuned in" to just how faint it is. This is one of the great advantages of decent goto for beginners - not so much to help find targets but to be confident that the target is actually in the field of view. When you know this you can really start hunting. One trick is to do some very small slewing movements - the faint grey smudge often shows itself then. Another is way is to scan your eye around and use averted vision. The light sensitivity of the eye is much better peripherally. M1 is another example of a difficult to see, famous target.

Your Mak is fairly slow but I bet you can can get it.

[Astroman]

Comparing to M1 is useful, as is averted vision. I find M33 is actually better in binoculars than in the C8 or the 10" F/7, though brighter (obviously) in the 10". It's actually over 3 million LY away. I've seen it naked eye from Kitt Peak and Sentinel, but the skies were exceptional.

Gently nudging the scope may reveal this very diffuse galaxy by watching for changes in background brightness. I've seen it also in scopes as small as 80mm. Keep at it, you'll get it eventually! I passed over it for nearly a week before I noticed it. It's as much about training your eyes to see it as it is star hopping.

[Brass n glass]

I find M33 is actually better in binoculars than in the C8 or the 10" F/7,

I think that pretty much sums it up; I can find it easily in my old Wray 9 binoculars, but it's more difficult in a telescope with anything but a low-power eyepiece. If I find M33 with my 37mm Plossl and then change to a 9mm Nagler, the galaxy just disappears. Like a lot of people, I was unprepared for an object that seems to behave in the opposite way to what you'd expect: the more magnification you throw at it, the less likely you are to see it - Hugh.