Incoming: New book on eyepieces

[rwilkey]

Interesting though Chris Lord's pieces no doubt are, I hope the forthcoming book is written in a more accessible way for those of us (like me !) easily confused by statistics, formulae and graphs

Hi John, I totally agree.

[BillP]

Hello Jeremy and folks! I often lurk in this forum but have never joined (hard enough keeping active on one forum). With this discussion and the book I just did, thought I'd finally add an account here.

Anyway, just some comments to some of the points made in this thread. Authors, especially a new one and non-million seller ones, I think have very little control over most of the aspects of books. Other than the internal content, things like cover, binding, paper choice, binding, hard vs soft cover, amount of color pics, format, etc. there is no control over. All those things are up to the publisher as they put up front all the production money to get the thing produced and marketed. btw, the actual 1st draft I had was over twice as long as I had lots of field performance information, history, and other stuff about each eyepiece line (200+) that in the end I had to remove as it was felt the cost to produce such a large book, and its subsequent price, would be a sales killer.

As for what I tried to accomplish with this book, basically three-fold: 1) a little history and process/procedures relative to the telescope-eyepiece system(including standard calculation formulas and considerations when observing different targets), 2) essays of advice from beginner to expert from other amateurs from around the world, and 3) Desk Reference of all the popular current and discontinued eyepiece lines (including full data tables, competing brands to consider, and sometimes special comments if something noteworthy).

#1 and #3 I tried to write from a perspective that it will not soon (if ever) become dated too much. Maybe once we start getting a good number of eyepiece lines offering over 120 degree AFOVs or a lot of aspherics or electronics coming into play, then some updating will have to be done. But given that major new breakthroughs these days seem to be every 2 or more years now, I'm thinking it will probably be a while before enough new eyepiece lines are out there to need an addition. But even when that is needed, I doubt most of the stuff in there will need taking out. Over time, my hope is that the Desk Reference section will become more and more valuable as some of the data tables from older discontinued eyepieces are getting harder and harder to find.

What I enjoy most from a personal perspective, is all the "eye candy" photos I collected from people all over. So while there are some pics from the manufacturers, most are from you and me of what we own. Always fun looking at these type pics for me anyway. For next printings, if there are any (I hope yes), I want to add more pics so 100% of the 200+ eyepiece lines have photos, and also want to add more essays from amateurs as it is great seeing such diversity in topics all gathered together.

And for any of you that do get the book, please PM me if you find any fixes I or the editors missed so can get those addresses, and any suggestions as well as those are always welcomed.

And btw, after the book got published I received email from the TAL eyepiece folks so will be getting a batch of their eyepieces to put through the paces. I'm looking forward to that

Thx,

-Bill

[ronin]

Looked the other day and Amazon UK don't list it. Well yet anyway.

[AndyH]

Welcome Bill !

I look forward to buying your book in the near future. A subject matter that I find most facinating, especially the historical aspect of all the types that have been available to us humble amateurs, over the years.

Cheers,

Andy.

[BillP]

Andy,

I didn't go too deep into the history, but what was interesting to me was when I looked at the timeline of eyepiece designs, and all the major visual discoveries, the Huygens was the most advanced design that was around. Gave me some new respect for the accomplishments that design achieved in the field Also, some of those old large Huygen eyepieces, like the ones supplied by Clark for his refractors back in the day in the US, had rather large AFOVs. The one I saw and pictured in the book has an AFOV of around 60 degrees or a little more.

-Bill

[AndyH]

I think it'll be a bitter/sweet read, as I'll see quite a few eyepieces that I've had in the past and dearly wish I hadn't sold, especially the more unusual ones, that are long discontinued.

Perhaps that's the curse of the slow scope user. ie: No need for super duper corrected 'pieces, so the temptation to try all sorts of weird n wonderfull creations, knowing that they're probably going to, at the very least, be decent.

Andy.

[rwilkey]

Hi Bill, great to have you aboard, so a warm welcome from me, I have often read your posts on CN and now have your book which I am well into now, Bought as a birthday present from my wife.  I am only slightly dissappointed that there were not more structure drawings of the more modern multi-element ep's, but I guess manufacturers are not very forthcoming on revealing these details, any thoughts on this Bill?  I had my book on pre-order from Amazon since the beginning of July, my birthday was the 12 July.  I too admired Chris Lord's papers, but I think your book speaks directly to today's amatuer astronomers, certainly speaks to me, your personal touch is a joy to read.

[BillP]

Robin,

Hello.  Most manufacturers keep their designs as secret as possible.  For some, they don't even like revealing how many lenses and groups their eyepieces have.  So to do something comprehensive really would entail getting all the major brands and taking them apart since the manufacturers will not give it up.  And we also can't depend on the design name either sometimes.  I have taken apart Modified Achromats to find they are Plossls and Erfles to find out they are really not that at all (have a shot of one in the book in the desk ref section I believe for the Celestron Erfle).  I pondered it when creating the book, but in the end felt that all the extensive work required, while cool to know and see, would have rally ended up as just a few diagrams with little else of value.  So interesting to know, but not very useful I felt. 

-Bill

ps - Happy belated birthday

[John]

.... And we also can't depend on the design name either sometimes.  I have taken apart Modified Achromats to find they are Plossls and Erfles to find out they are really not that at all..... 

Too true !

I took a couple of Japanese Vixen orthos apart to clean them a few years back and found they were actually a plossl type design with two matching asymmetrical doublet elements mounted with their most convex faces facing each other.

"Circle-T" orthos however do follow the traditional singlet eye-lens + triplet field lens design, thankfully.

[Naemeth]

Robin,

Hello.  Most manufacturers keep their designs as secret as possible.  For some, they don't even like revealing how many lenses and groups their eyepieces have.  So to do something comprehensive really would entail getting all the major brands and taking them apart since the manufacturers will not give it up.  And we also can't depend on the design name either sometimes.  I have taken apart Modified Achromats to find they are Plossls and Erfles to find out they are really not that at all (have a shot of one in the book in the desk ref section I believe for the Celestron Erfle).  I pondered it when creating the book, but in the end felt that all the extensive work required, while cool to know and see, would have rally ended up as just a few diagrams with little else of value.  So interesting to know, but not very useful I felt. 

-Bill

ps - Happy belated birthday

Couldn't they be x-rayed?

[John]

Couldn't they be x-rayed?

Yes, they can  

See the bottom of this review:

http://www.svenwienstein.de/HTML/es_14mm_ethos_13mm_English.html

I reckon the first thing a competitor does is to pick up some of the rivals and see whats under their skin.

[Stargazer_00]

I wonder if this book contains some sort of question and answer section which tells you if you might as well save and buy TeleVue from day one and save yourself money in working your way up to them, or if your the lucky sort of person who is genuinely content with something of a lesser quality.

Now that is advice you can sell!

[John]

I wonder if this book contains some sort of question and answer section which tells you if you might as well save and buy TeleVue from day one and save yourself money in working your way up to them, or if your the lucky sort of person who is genuinely content with something of a lesser quality.

Now that is advice you can sell!

Imagine the reaction we would get from newcomers to the hobby if we advised them that they should find a further £1K or more to spend on top quality eyepieces and skip all the intermediate steps

If you can avoid the lure of the wide fields or own a slow scope it's not really necessary anyway - £50 Baader Classic Orthos will perform as well as the Delos / XW's do. 

[Stargazer_00]

Probably would've scared me off... Hindsight though is a wonderful thing!

[Naemeth]

Imagine the reaction we would get from newcomers to the hobby if we advised them that they should find a further £1K or more to spend on top quality eyepieces and skip all the intermediate steps

If you can avoid the lure of the wide fields or own a slow scope it's not really necessary anyway - £50 Baader Classic Orthos will perform as well as the Delos / XW's do. 

They would definitely be put off.. When I started I wanted to make things as cheap as possible, now I don't care so much how much it costs as long as the performance is excellent.

[BillP]

I wonder if this book contains some sort of question and answer section which tells you if you might as well save and buy TeleVue from day one and save yourself money in working your way up to them, or if your the lucky sort of person who is genuinely content with something of a lesser quality.

Now that is advice you can sell!

LOL.  I at one time in the drafting did have a FAQ chapter.  But that also went by the wayside to keep the page count down (original draft was 700-800 pages).  Eyepieces are a very personal thing...and the "glove" needs to fit just right.  So it is different for everyone.  So instead of that advice I focussed more on AFOV classes rather than brand comparisons, and talked in some details on everal of the top contenders in each class, then attributes to look for in any eyepiece  :-D a personal decision IMO as to what fits ones taste. I used to have the full TV T6 line as well as a few T4s and all the Plossls.  All I have now is a 2x Barlow.  They make great glass...but so do others.  Frankly, if I had to do it all over again (observing), I think the best advice is to stay away from short focal ratio telescopes as they get you in all kind of eyepiece troubles!  :-D

[BillP]

Say...how does one edit their posts once they submit them??

[YKSE]

Say...how does one edit their posts once they submit them??

I think edit their post is valid on when you have made enough post, I can't edit my posts yet.

[BillP]

Thanks.  Guess I can't be so quick to click as I'm used to.

[emadmoussa]

Robin,

Hello.  Most manufacturers keep their designs as secret as possible.  For some, they don't even like revealing how many lenses and groups their eyepieces have.  So to do something comprehensive really would entail getting all the major brands and taking them apart since the manufacturers will not give it up.  And we also can't depend on the design name either sometimes.  I have taken apart Modified Achromats to find they are Plossls and Erfles to find out they are really not that at all (have a shot of one in the book in the desk ref section I believe for the Celestron Erfle).  I pondered it when creating the book, but in the end felt that all the extensive work required, while cool to know and see, would have rally ended up as just a few diagrams with little else of value.  So interesting to know, but not very useful I felt. 

-Bill

ps - Happy belated birthday

Explains why there aren't many videos or documentaries out there on ''how to build telescope eyepieces''...I saw brief ones in which the phrase ''manufacturer secret" was mentioned on more than one occasion.

[rwilkey]

Robin,

Hello.  Most manufacturers keep their designs as secret as possible.  For some, they don't even like revealing how many lenses and groups their eyepieces have.  So to do something comprehensive really would entail getting all the major brands and taking them apart since the manufacturers will not give it up.  And we also can't depend on the design name either sometimes.  I have taken apart Modified Achromats to find they are Plossls and Erfles to find out they are really not that at all (have a shot of one in the book in the desk ref section I believe for the Celestron Erfle).  I pondered it when creating the book, but in the end felt that all the extensive work required, while cool to know and see, would have rally ended up as just a few diagrams with little else of value.  So interesting to know, but not very useful I felt. 

-Bill

ps - Happy belated birthday

Hi Bill, I thought that might be the case, and love the way you have presented the different types of ep's in the second half of the book, there are so many ep's of one type but with differnt names, the AT Paradigm is a good example, the other branded copies are exactly the same ep.  Well done for such a brilliant presentation of the known facts.  Thanks also for the birthday greetings by the way!

[Stargazer_00]

@BillP - Have you any thoughts on selling an eBook version of this?  I do alot of my reading on my tablet these days (magazines, books with graphics & journals) and my other reading on a dedicated kindle (lighter and less headache.   I guess it's paradigm shift of recent years but I've actually done away with having any form of bookshelf in my house (for a few years now) and get everything electronic.

I'd be interested in this as an eBook, for sure.

[AndyH]

Both formats are offered for sale

[Stargazer_00]

So they are...it would do to read a little better once in a while on my part!

[Moonshane]

Imagine the reaction we would get from newcomers to the hobby if we advised them that they should find a further £1K or more to spend on top quality eyepieces and skip all the intermediate steps

If you can avoid the lure of the wide fields or own a slow scope it's not really necessary anyway - £50 Baader Classic Orthos will perform as well as the Delos / XW's do. 

I'm with you John. If I ever hit hard times, I'd have no worries about selling my wide fields and keeping my plossls and orthos. at about £50 a pop they are not overly expensive.