problems with x2 Cannon d60a both dead within 3 hours, why?

[firefox]

Hi, everyone.

The first camera;

i bought the first cannon d60a, using APT to control it, within 3 hours of using ot, it froze, within the camera information screen. It was showing my setting, iso 800, ect, but the camera had disconnected from APT, and i had no control over the camera, could not bring up the menu. Even when i finally turned the power off the infomation remained visable, only when i removed the battrey did the infomation disappear as well.

The set up was ; powered by cannon battrey, usb cable to laptop, the laptop was also linked to the cgem dx mount.

the second camera;

The same happened, iso 800, 30 sec exposures, live view on, controled via APT. This time the power was a cannon power supply, which gives continuous power, brand new usb cable, controlled via different laptop, laptop linked to cgem dx, via different usb cable, camera froze after 2 hours max.

Any ideas, the camera is well and truly fried.. but why, just bad luck, or me????

[IanL]

Are you saying the camera was permanently broken after each freeze-up, or that removing the battery/external power resets it to a usable condition.

If the latter, the most likely issue is a USB problem of some sort. I was having a similar issue where my 500D would disconnect from APT or BYE and the only way to get it going again was to remove the power to the camera. I re-cabled everything with a new hub and fewer cable connections in the chain and all is well now.

If the camera is permanently broken I'd suspect some kind of power problem causing it. Are you running from mains or a power tank? It could be a ground loop if you are using multiple power supplies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)), or maybe electrostatic discharge when you are handling equipment.

[firefox]

hi yes the cameras were permanently broken after each freeze-up, the power used by the cameras, were interal battrey on the first, and the battry that conects to the mains. the usb`s were replaced, even the laptops were diffrent, im due to ring the company, for a second exchange, so reallyconcerned it will happen for a third time.

[Arecibo]

Hi. I bought this camera on October 2012, and used it for about one month and a half. Always with the Canon 60Da Power Supply Adapter.

And then, one night, it went kaput. After sending it to the repair service, they returned it having changed all the electronics (except the sensor).

No explanation for the cause of the demise ...

I started to use it again (this time with the Canon battery, because my main suspect was a power spike, not filtered -or even generated- by the power supply), to soon discover that the sensor was totally fried. I have not done a scientific measure of the hot pixels, but I'm sure it was a thousand folds (or more) than the original.

So, after several months trying to get some results in these circumstances, I returned it to the repair service ... still waiting (after two more months).

In the meantime, I'm using an unmodified Canon EOS 1100D, much less sensitive (to H-alfa), and with higher native noise. But not having any other problem with it ...

I've being using the Canon supplied programs (EOS Utility -one version per camera-) for computer control and download.

I understand that I don't provide any suggestion to solve your problem, Firefox, just to cast suspicions on the whole 60Da series. And to vent my frustration

To date, I'm really disappointed with the dam camera (while it worked, it was a delight to use, though).

[JamesF]

I wonder if the 60Da has slightly different firmware from other cameras and if even Canon's own software can cause problems with it under some combinations of circumstances?

James

[Arecibo]

I wonder if the 60Da has slightly different firmware from other cameras and if even Canon's own software can cause problems with it under some combinations of circumstances?

James

It is unlikely, James. It's a common guess that the 60Da it's only a 60D with a different filter in front of the sensor.

But, now that you mention software, one of my still unspoken criticsms to this "astronomical" product is that the provided software ignores completely any consideration to the way astroimagers work. Verbi gratia, no RAW histogram with which to adjust expositions, and others that I don't recall now.

Miguel.

[k2k]

Hi

I'm a little late on this post as I just joined up but, for the record, my 60Da died on me too. I had taken less than 200 shots in the three weeks I had owned it, so I returned t for a replacement.

I was using APT and the AC adapter. I can't see that either of these would be relevant since APT will, presumably, just be sending text strings over the USB and if Canon can't build a simple power supply there is no hope for them (and people have had them fail on battery).

I imagine there must be loads of people using the standard 60D for astrophotography and it would be interesting to hear from them. They would be using the camera under similar circumstances - dark frame subtraction, mirror lock up, long exposures, software etc.

Kevin

[Yoddha]

Kevin, As I understand some 60Da and 60D batches have problem with one of the boards... All repaired cameras work fine according to my observations

[mikehab]

I had exactly the same problem with my Canon 60D (not Da)..... I had it hooked up to my laptop and was controlling it using the official EOS S/W that came with the camera - practising some long-exposure BULB shots controlled via the computer..... and then mid-exposure the 60D just locked up completely with the LCD display showing the relevant exposure details etc. Even when I unplugged the USB from the camera and flipped the dial to switch the camera OFF it made no difference - the LCD display was still 'alive' and showing the details even when in the 'off' position. I had no option other than to remove the battery - but when I re-inserted the battery the whole camera was completely dead/fried. Luckily I was still under warranty at the time so I returned it to Canon for repair (luckily I live pretty close delivered and picked up in person).

When I got it back a few days later I asked whether they had determined the cause of the problem as I was keen to make sure it wasn't something I did or a known problem and I didn't do the same thing again ... and they told me that it's just not time/cost effective for them to waste their time trying to fathom out what causes problems these days and they just replace all the 3 (or 4?) circuit boards regardeless, without even bothering to try to diagnose the problem - so they couldn't say what caused the problem.

I've had the repaired 60D now for over a year without any further issue - however I've been too scared to connect it up to the laptop as I have little confidence that it won't cause the same problem again ... and now of course I'm no longer under warranty.

There's definitely a problem with the 60D (and Da by the sounds of things) which causes them to fry when under USB control ... but apart from that it's an absolutely fantastic camera and I love it!

Mike

[mikehab]

Just for completeness here's the link to my original posting from last year on similar subject...

Cheers,

Mike

[jakieff]

Hello. This is my first post here on the forum.

I had the same problem 2 days ago with APT and my modified 600D. I put it on live view and tried a 30 sec shot.

The cam blocked and now says err20. The mirror and the shutter are up.

The battery was full and replacing the battery didn't help.

I sent the camera to DSLR-ASTROTEC who did the modification and I am now waiting for news.

I for sure, will not try APT again.

Jacques

[Yoddha]

Hi Jacques,

Err 20 means "Malfunctions related to the mechanical mechanism have been detected." It is not possible APT to crash your camera because all the control is made through library provided by Canon... Camera modification is much more risky than the use of any program.

I stand behind my project and if you can prove that APT crashed your camera I'll cover the repairs.

[lensman57]

It is unlikely, James. It's a common guess that the 60Da it's only a 60D with a different filter in front of the sensor.

But, now that you mention software, one of my still unspoken criticsms to this "astronomical" product is that the provided software ignores completely any consideration to the way astroimagers work. Verbi gratia, no RAW histogram with which to adjust expositions, and others that I don't recall now.

Miguel.

It is not only the provided software with this camera that does not provide a live raw histogram, some of the software supplied with Cooled CCDs also have no provision for this essential tool. Mind wonders why?

A.G

[Davey-T]

It is unlikely, James. It's a common guess that the 60Da it's only a 60D with a different filter in front of the sensor.

But, now that you mention software, one of my still unspoken criticsms to this "astronomical" product is that the provided software ignores completely any consideration to the way astroimagers work. Verbi gratia, no RAW histogram with which to adjust expositions, and others that I don't recall now.

Miguel.

To quote Mr Yuichi Ishizuka, Vice Pres ' of Canon they [Canon] have a " constant desire to supply a camera for astronomical use " probably looses something in translation, but if all they do is fit a different filter as others have said, that hardly constitutes an "astronomical camera", the least they could do is have a red light option for the LCD screen which would be no trouble at all for them.

I have a 60da, not had a chance to use it much, hope it doesn't blow up after the warranty runs out.

The most useful feature I've found so far is the swivel LCD screen.

Dave

[k2k]

Thanks Yoddha. I may just get mine repaired if there is a next time.

I understand from Firefox that he has been through the loop several times since his original post but I am not sure of the exact circumstances.

Kevin

[Yoddha]

Kevin, you are welcome!

Just get a document from the service that the problem is caused by external software malfunction and I will not ask questions... APT is in the wild for almost four years and used by hundreds of users and cameras. The only models that gave problem ever during software use (APT or other) are 60D(a) and one 600D that was modified and gave hardware error... To make the things more clear - APT uses the very same communication library as EOS utilities - the software that comes with every camera provided by Canon...

What can I say more? If one thinks and can prove that APT is the reason, then I'm here... After all I don't have an agreement with tens of pages filled will small font

[Yoddha]

BTW, Firefox had the very bad luck to try several cameras from a bad batch. He had conversations with the Canon service (after several replacements from local dealer). There was no exact finding... One of the possible reason was a bad power from the USB port the, other was a hardware problem with the internal circuits... As I know he has a good camera now

[wxsatuser]

I have a 60da, not had a chance to use it much, hope it doesn't blow up after the warranty runs out.

The most useful feature I've found so far is the swivel LCD screen.

Dave

Same boat here.

Have'nt used mine in anger yet, just some normal daytime test shots.

Very nervous now.

[wxsatuser]

Are you saying the camera was permanently broken after each freeze-up, or that removing the battery/external power resets it to a usable condition.

If the latter, the most likely issue is a USB problem of some sort. I was having a similar issue where my 500D would disconnect from APT or BYE and the only way to get it going again was to remove the power to the camera. I re-cabled everything with a new hub and fewer cable connections in the chain and all is well now.

If the camera is permanently broken I'd suspect some kind of power problem causing it. Are you running from mains or a power tank? It could be a ground loop if you are using multiple power supplies (http://en.wikipedia....p_(electricity)), or maybe electrostatic discharge when you are handling equipment.

Worth investigating the ground loop theory.

Even using one power supply you may have to be careful, other equipment may try to use the ground that cannot

handle the power.

I had a piece of kit to do with my hamradio set-up that always had the ground connection removed to make sure it

never carried any current from other higher current gear.......it was a warning in manual to do this so it was a known thing with that kit.

[ollypenrice]

This really isn't good, is it? The price is around what you'd pay for a CCD albeit with a smaller sensor. At some point on the price curve I think it's time to leave the DSLR behind and move on to a full-on astro camera.

Reading this thread makes me put that point somewhere below the price of the 60Da! The 20Da was obsolete within a couple of years yet cost an absolute fortune when it was launched. I don't think anyone would pay fifty quid for one now. However, a contemporary CCD with a Sony 285 chip, for example, would still be a valid modern camera.

I'm glad I read this because I get quite a few PMs about camera choice and I'll link to this for sure.

I'd also like to say that I think Ivo's been remarkably straight regarding APT. He finds himself in an unpleasant position here and has been very honourable.

Olly

[Yoddha]

^{Thank you Olly!}

[JKB]

Well this has been a very interesting thread.

Olly you are so right and as for Ivo and his open honesty what more could you ask?

I too have had a problem with a Canon DSLR. My first 30D just stopped working. Was using it no problems. 3min subs of M42 and next exposure dead! No power, nothing. Now heres the interesting bit.....

At the time it was connected via USB to a laptop, running APT with a Canon mains adaptor. So what had gone wrong? Obviously it had to be the software.......

No of course it wasn't there is no plausible way APT could be at fault but after selling the broken body (spares or repair of course) i remembered that every time I looked through the viewfinder i would get a small tingling sensation on my cheek when touching the camera body (thought it was because i needed a shave!). Ground loop? I am pretty much 100% certain. Electricity kills electronics!

Whilst Canon cameras are fantastic and I will continue to use them, they are not designed for what we use them for. How many times have you returned to the scope to find the camera wet with dew or ice covering the outside? Also the higher end cameras boast of their magnesium, sealed bodies. I dropped mine once about 2ft and it landed on the wet grass . I had a droplet of water under the LCD top screen for months: So well sealed, I don't think so!

The 60Da is not really a camera for astrophotography but is designed for the consumer who wants to try AP. Remove the IR filter and replace then up the price. As you know anything with 'astro' included in the name means more money.

The DSLR is a very fragile piece of kit and whilst fantastic for wedding photos but we expose them to very harsh conditions. I have and will continue to use APT as without people like Ivo our hobby would have been set aside a long time ago.

One day I will join the ranks of dedicated CCD clan with equipment designed for the purpose but until I can afford it I will make do with what I can. As Olly said there is a time when that curve crosses over. Keep up the good work Ivo (and all the others keeping our hobby alive: BYE, EQMOD, SHOESTRING, PHD, DSS, REGISTAX etc. etc)

Just my 2p worth

Jamie

[wxsatuser]

I bought the 60da because it can be used for both types of photography and had reasonable spec.

Reasoned, if I never got to far with AP or it was'nt my cup of tea, then it was'nt wasted.

I knew the overall limitations, the downside against a dedicated ccd but the overall cost of all what we

need with a ccd, put me off a bit, I had no idea if I could make a ccd set-up work but a dlsr I can work.

[Rezn8]

My 60da also just died after about a year of use. $600 to repair. Going to sell it and buy a celestron nightscape OSC. Used one before , not too bad a camera. I don't think the 60da is robust enough for astrophography.

[mikehab]

Based on my experience (above) I don't think it is anything to do with APT ... my 60D died using even the standard Canon EOS software that shipped with the camera... so I would say it's likely to be a more fundamental problem with the camera's firmware & long/BULB exposures when being controlled via USB irrespective of the software that's controlling it.

Mike