First ever Jupier shot wth SPC900

[ubertank]

Had my first go at imaging Jupiter yesterday and this is my result with a 10FPS video 50 seconds long:

I'm not too displeased with the overall quality after stacking. I have done absolutely nothing to add colour quality though. I think I need to get a higher magnification barlow as this was done with a 2x and is still pretty small.

I was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to help me out with a couple of questions I have:

* Firstly, I was having issues wth the wavelets in Registax. I was following this guide - http://www.astronomie.be/registax/previewv6paul.html and looking at the wavelets section, the difference it adds to image qualiry looks amazing. However, when I play with these settings it actually makes my image much more blurry. Can anyone shed any ligh on this for me?

* I would like to get some colour into the image as it's obviously a bit dark. Can anyone advise the best settings to aim for to do the best with what I have here?

* Would a 3 x barlow be a good upgrade for a larger image here?

* Registax was giving me a bit of a headache with aligning. When I asked it to lign by itself it would only give me one alighpoint. Is this normal? For this image I manually clicked about 40 or so points into the image. Is this the right way?

Cheers guys. I would really appreciate any advice someone can throw my way to help me get more out of the system next time I head out in my garden.

[Helite]

I cant really give any advice im afraid, i am in your shoes too, just getting into the swing of it the only thing I will say though is registax was being a pain with me as well so when I re-did my jupiter i used AS!2 and once I messed about with it for a couple of hours started getting reasonable results, maybey that would be worth a try for you.

As for a 3x barlow I couldnt say, I was having slight issues with my 2.5 barlow and my SPC but using a 2x was fine.

Hope you work it out but good first go anyhow!

[JamesF]

Lack of colour could well be just insufficient gain. Use the histogram in sharpcap and lift the gain to the point where you're getting a reading of 60% to 70% across the graph.

I'd give AS!2 a whirl for stacking, too. You may find it easier to work with.

As for wavelets, well, wavelets is just another name for black magic. Sacrificing a goat might help, but failing that it's really a question of experimentation. There are probably as many different ways to work as there are people using it. I tend to use only the top three sliders (starting at the top) and push them as far to the right as a dare. At some point the image will start to look awful, so I back off a bit and move to the next one down.

A 3x barlow may work. The problem is that a barlow effectively just spreads the light over a larger area. If you've not got enough light on individual pixels then you get a dull image as you've discovered, and if you keep pushing the gain up eventually you get quite a noisy image. It's a bit of a balancing act. I think I'd stick with the 2x until you're happy with the quality of the images you're getting and then think about more image scale with a bigger barlow.

James

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Nice first go! I agree a bit more gain might improve matters (first increase the exposure time to the highest value manageable at 10FPS, then tweak gain)

[ubertank]

I had another go at processing and stacking. Then actually managed to get a bit of joy out of the wavelets.

Quite pleased with this now:

[leelee970]

Great first image, far better than my first early attempts.

I agree with James, try using AS!2 and only use Registax for the wavelets (Registax 5 has less issues than 6 so give that a go too).

I also use RGB balance (auto) to give a more natural colour after using RGB align.

Finally you could use an extension tube between your X2 barlow and webcam to increase image size. I use and old barlow with the lens removed - really works a treat.

But the main thing is keep trying and practicing, good luck.

Here is my first image way back in 2011 and the second image is from mid Jan this year (been too cloudy since to do more imaging) same scope, mount and webcam.

[tich]

Not bad for a first attempt, I've never really had many issues with stacking with registax 6 it was my processing skills that failed me in the past. As everyone has said keep practising & you'll start to see improvements.

Interesting James that you use the top 3 sliders in the wavelets in Registax as I tend to use the bottom 3 & work up

Hope you don't mind but I had a quick mess around with it in PS

[Joe_L]

Nice shot. I've been using K3CCDtools (demo version) but found it a bit ropey. I'll give registrax a go, it'll be interesting to see how they compare.

I took my first ever webcam shots with a Logitech 300 through the eyepiece (see my other thread started today http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/181179-first-attempt-jupiter-with-a-logitech-3000/) but I've just bought an SPC900 which I gather is a better camera, however as its prime focus I found it extremely hard to get the image positioned to hit the ccd chip.

Joe

[ubertank]

Lee that second image is stunning.

If I manage to bag an image like that I will be extremely proud. Well done mate.

[JamesF]

I've just bought an SPC900 which I gather is a better camera, however as its prime focus I found it extremely hard to get the image positioned to hit the ccd chip.

It can be tricky because the margin for error is really very small. The SPC900 sensor is only a few millimetres on a side, so you don't need to be much out for the target not to be on the sensor at all and then you'll never find it. To a point, any illuminated reticle eyepiece helps to get the target perfectly centred.

James

[leelee970]

Lee that second image is stunning.

If I manage to bag an image like that I will be extremely proud. Well done mate.

Thanks ubertank, one thing that really made a difference was using a Bahtinov mask to get spot on focus on a very near by bright star and the slew back to Jupiter.

I made mine out of cardboard (gets a little soggy but dries out after a session).

Lee

[ubertank]

Not bad for a first attempt, I've never really had many issues with stacking with registax 6 it was my processing skills that failed me in the past. As everyone has said keep practising & you'll start to see improvements.

Interesting James that you use the top 3 sliders in the wavelets in Registax as I tend to use the bottom 3 & work up

Hope you don't mind but I had a quick mess around with it in PS

I didn't notice you say you had edited my image. No, don't mind at all! It's really helpful to see what others can get out of your footage/images so you know how much you have to learn.

A better job than me. Well done

[lensman57]

Had my first go at imaging Jupiter yesterday and this is my result with a 10FPS video 50 seconds long:

I'm not too displeased with the overall quality after stacking. I have done absolutely nothing to add colour quality though. I think I need to get a higher magnification barlow as this was done with a 2x and is still pretty small.

I was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to help me out with a couple of questions I have:

* Firstly, I was having issues wth the wavelets in Registax. I was following this guide - http://www.astronomi...viewv6paul.html and looking at the wavelets section, the difference it adds to image qualiry looks amazing. However, when I play with these settings it actually makes my image much more blurry. Can anyone shed any ligh on this for me?

* I would like to get some colour into the image as it's obviously a bit dark. Can anyone advise the best settings to aim for to do the best with what I have here?

* Would a 3 x barlow be a good upgrade for a larger image here?

* Registax was giving me a bit of a headache with aligning. When I asked it to lign by itself it would only give me one alighpoint. Is this normal? For this image I manually clicked about 40 or so points into the image. Is this the right way?

Cheers guys. I would really appreciate any advice someone can throw my way to help me get more out of the system next time I head out in my garden.

Hi,

As a newbie to imaging myself, I think that is a great first effort. Use PiPP ( a free program ) to sort out the frames first, tick the planetary window, and then let the pipp crop the frames to about 360, it will save you a lot of processing time in the AS!2. Import into AS!2 and and if possible do a manual alignment, tick normalise histogram, sharpen and drizzle 1.5X, and then stack, and then stack again, you will get two files in either TiFF or PNG, your choice, one is sharpened and the otherone for wavelet in RG6, open in RG6 and do the usual, I seem to be quite agressive with wavelets but that is your choice how you wish to sharpen, denoise and do the other bits and pieces in PS if you wish. the other point worth remembering is that your ED 80 can only resolve so much due to the limited aperture so don't expect to have the same level of detail as an 8" or 10" scope, your best friend or worst enemy while imaging is actually the seeing condition so if the seeing is not good the result will be poor no matter what scope or equipment you have. Hope that this helps a little.

I hope that you didn't mind but I attached a thumbnail of my second imaging session, 10 nights ago, with jupiter using an EvoStar 100 ed pro and 2.5X ED barlow, this is by no means a deatil rich file but with equipment like mine I think that it is acceptable. Now waiting for clear and calm nights .

Regards,

A.G

[JamesF]

FWIW, after reading a paper on how drizzle works recently my interpretation is that it's really only useful if you're undersampling to start with. That is, if the resolution of the optical train is better than the resolution of the camera. As the effective focal length gets longer (ie. the focal ratio gets slower) that becomes less likely I think, but I'd need to do another run through the maths to come up with a useful way to check for certain. If you aren't undersampling it's possible that drizzle just works as a glorified resize.

James

[stargazerslivingroom]

Great first image, far better than my first early attempts.

I agree with James, try using AS!2 and only use Registax for the wavelets (Registax 5 has less issues than 6 so give that a go too).

I also use RGB balance (auto) to give a more natural colour after using RGB align.

Finally you could use an extension tube between your X2 barlow and webcam to increase image size. I use and old barlow with the lens removed - really works a treat.

But the main thing is keep trying and practicing, good luck.

Here is my first image way back in 2011 and the second image is from mid Jan this year (been too cloudy since to do more imaging) same scope, mount and webcam.

[stargazerslivingroom]

Sorry...I can't get the hang of using quote let alone imaging!

What I wanted to ask is can you put the barlow AFTER the extension tube??

Thanks

Steve

[JamesF]

What I wanted to ask is can you put the barlow AFTER the extension tube??

In the general case, no, you can't -- all you're doing then is effectively making the OTA longer. Where that's not quite true is with a Mak or SCT because unlike a standard 'frac or newt they have a movable focal plane, but moving the focal plane away from the OTA means moving the primary mirror and increases the focal length giving a (slightly) larger image.

James

[JamesF]

Hmmm. If that doesn't make sense, say so and I'll attempt to explain it better

James

[stargazerslivingroom]

Hmmm. If that doesn't make sense, say so and I'll attempt to explain it better

James

Thanks, James. I am using a refractor so I guess it's a no, but I thought lengthening the OTA was the whole point...Won't this increase the image size? At the moment Jupiter appears very small.

Steve

[JamesF]

With a refractor (or newt) it won't because the focal plane of the objective lens/mirror is always in the same place. If you added (say) a 40mm extension in front of the barlow, that would just mean that you had to move the focuser 40mm further in to get the camera to the focal point.

Or, to look at it another way, there is no difference between adding a 40mm extension in front of the barlow or not having the extension and moving the focuser 40mm further out.

James

[stargazerslivingroom]

Thanks again James...Nice explanation. I get it now.

Steve

[JamesF]

No problem

The difference with the Mak/SCT is that whilst with a newt or 'frac the focal plane is in a fixed position and you move the eyepiece/camera to the focal plane, with the Mak or SCT you hold the eyepiece or camera in a fixed position and then change the focal length by moving the primary mirror until the focal plane is in the right place. On the one hand, this is blindingly obvious. On the other, it took me ages to realise the difference

James

[Aenima]

Excellent first image, much better than my early messes.

And some great advice there, too. You'd find it hard to get better advice than James, tich and co. . there's not much I could add to it to be honest. - but i'll try

A good barlow is worth investing in, and practice with sharpcap does pay off - quite often what you see is close to what you'll get regarding watching the screen during capture. 'Seeing' (atmospheric) always makes the details blur in and out which is the point of using stacking to capture those quick moments of clarity and discarding the rest,while also taking time to get focus as good as possible.

Michael (i think) said to take exposure right up before tweaking the gain which is exactly what I try to do, cos gain can bring noise but with Exp. right up you'll only need a small amount of gain to get a bright enough image. Though dont over do it as theres no recovering burned out data, but its not so hard to brighten a darker image.

If you dont have a focus mask try getting good focus on the moon then swinging over to jupiter, it sometimes pays off to take several 1 min avi's with a slight tweak of focus in between to give you more chance of hitting the spot and pulling a sharp image from the data once your back indoors. Another aid to focus is the jovian moons, they should be pinpoint dots, just turn the gain up high and look either side of the planet parallel to the dark belts - you should see one or more tiny dots (with luck) and getting them as small and sharp as you can will bring focus a little closer than if you were to just watch jupiter and guess.

With stacking in registax you should be able to get a routine going after a few tries. Load the avi, if its jumpy try the freeware 'Castrator' cropping program, its quite effective and simple to use, but lets say the avi is good - click on the small slider at the bottom and drag it along to the right which will go through your video frames individually and stop it on a good frame that shows detail, this will be the reference frame for registax to compare the rest to - click once to put a alignpoint on it, center of the planet - that will suffice, you can also tick the 'align by center of gravity' box on the left (which puts a red dot by your alignpoint) to be sure. But ive found multi-alignpoints can 'fracture' the image and arent 100% necessary.

Then click 'align' - after a few seconds the option to 'Limit' lights up, then in the bottom left you can set the quality % to around 80% best frames (or similar) and the 'Limit' button then gets rid of the unwanted frames.

At the bottom you'll see 'stack limited to xxxx frames' and you can then click 'stack' - when done a good habit to get into is selecting 'RGB Align' which brings up a green box - drag it around the planet and press 'Estimate' - (this will clear/line up any blue edges or blue one side and red the other caused by jupiter being low in the sky getting affected by the atmosphere) - then start on the Wavelets, press the rectangle buttons to the right of each wavelet slider to get an idea of the level of detail that slider is going to sharpen. (the screen goes red and green showing areas of contrast)

When you see that a slider is affecting proper detail and not just noise slide that one along a bit, try the next one too. Maybe tap + sharpen up 1 or 2 times, see what happens. If you go too far just reset wavelets and try again.

If you get the hang of this procedure it can give you an idea of how good your AVI is and what results to expect. Its not the best or most thorough method but after a good capture session its a reliable and quick way to check out your data and gauge the kind of end result you'll get without spending too long with fiddly processing - you can always go back to a good avi later with the aim of fine tuning the techniques and final images ready for posting the next day.

Sorry for the mass info dump, hope any of it helps -and best of luck next clear night !

Regards

Aenima