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10Micron GM1000HPS - ingress to a full review!

perfrej

By perfrej
in Discussions - Mounts

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perfrej

perfrej

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10Micron GM1000HPS

A little over a year ago I started looking for something to replace my NEQ6. It wasn’t that I was dissatisfied with it, but rather an urge to start some kind of quest for excellence. Astro imaging had been my hobby for about two years at that time and the number of shiny mounts crying out for my wallet was just short of overwhelming. I decided to short-list them.

A lot of the information about the beefier mounts comes from the U.S. On forums like Cloudynights, the main mount discussions circled (and still circles) around Software Bisque’s Paramount, Losmandy’s G8 and G11, and, of course, around Astro-Physics. All of those products, in my view, represent slightly dated technology and maybe show a touch of having been at the throne for too long. The search thus continued more internationally.

I found the Gemini G53F interesting. A quick round of research yielded information on bolt-on solutions, difficult software and, most importantly, tons of problems with support and deliveries as well as quality. The G53F was eliminated from my short-list. I don’t like mounts where the iron is the key and the electronics are purchased as standard solutions usually meant for people who want to venture into mount-building or upgrading.

ASA DDM-series was researched next. As with many new products and companies that suddenly find themselves in need of a support organisation, ASA appeared to have had their fair share of problems and complaints. Now, being a software and hardware guy with 30 years’ worth of experience, I deem myself capable of judging products. The DDM mounts showed really cool features and advanced motor technology, all adding up to a very interesting product. At this point I started looking closer at the software offering and found, much to my horror, that the mount is a total dud without an accompanying PC. Don’t get me wrong here; a PC will be used for the imaging anyway so I won’t use a mount without it, but still… I am simply uncomfortable with bolt-on solutions and products that die without a PC.

The Mesu 200 looked like an interesting prospect. It did, however, lack the two things that I required; remote capability and absolute encoders. I was aiming at remote operation and running without guiding – really cool stuff!

Next in my search I stumbled upon the Italian company Comec 10Micron. Now, this looked promising. Apparently, Baader Planetarium had teamed up with 10Micron and introduced them to absolute encoder technology, and the result was presented in the form of the GM2000HPS. In the end I settled on this product. It has everything contained in the mount itself, including things like pointing models, tracking models and all the electronics. In other words, it will not die without a PC. Perfect. I simply ordered one and decided to pick it up myself at Baader Planetarium on my down to Provence and Olly Penrice’s excellent little Astro Git Les Granges in Etoile-St-Cyrice.

My son and I drove down there, picked up the mount and arrived at 2 a.m. under a pitch-black sky and a buzzing Olly Penrice tending to his telescopes. Unfortunately, I had a mishap that I really cannot blame anyone for. One of the cables to the mount had been damaged and I managed to blow a fuse and, as was evident later, an electronics driver circuit in the mount control board, which made the mount controller unable to boot. Baader fixed this by lending me another control box while mine was under repairs, but it made my GM2000HPS unusable during my stay at Olly’s. Fortunately, I also had my NEQ6 and could borrow Olly’s Temma Jr so the week was a total success anyway.

I have since learned just about everything there is to know about the 10Micron GM2000HPS and have written an ASCOM driver for it that I think is better than the one supplied by 10Micron. I have also added a few utilities and a model maker that automates the creation of a pointing model completely. The mount is a formidable engineering accomplishment and extremely reliable and consistent. I love it! A few weeks ago I presented a single sub of one hour's worth of exposure time - unguided! I bet I could have left it for another hour or five, still with round stars in a single exposure. I find unguided imaging cool ;)

So, the GM2000HPS was suddenly slated for shipment to a remote location in Southern France and I needed something to replace it, perhaps a bit smaller for balcony use. Ah – the GM1000HPS! Same technology, same software, same quality – baby brother. I needed one! Solution: get one!

Currently, the mount is in transit from Baader Planetarium outside of München and is expected to land here in a few days. I have a pier adaptor in the package as well so it is going straight up on the balcony pier after unboxing.

This thread will be updated as soon as the mount arrives.

Stay tuned ;)

/per

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ribuck

ribuck

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Hi Per.

Just out of interest, how do you define if a mount is capable of being used remotely ? For your GM2000 in the south of france, i'm assuming it will have a pc attached so that you can image. I'm also assuming that you will the ability to remotely reset the power to everything.

So if we take a cheaper mount, such as the EQ6-GT as an example for a remote mount. If you have the ability to reset the power to the mount, pc and all the of your equipment, could we class the EQ6-GT as a mount capable for a remote observatory ?

p.s. i'm not interested in buying a EQ6-GT, just used it as an example of a cheap mount with on Axis encoders.

Rich.

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perfrej

perfrej

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Remote control requires (in my view) the following:

- Absolute encoders

- Ability to automate model building

- Virtual hand controller

- Ability to shutdown and start up the mount by computer control

- Reliable park

- Multiple park positions, software controllable

- Ability to determine mount balance via software

- Ability to reset error conditions via software

- Full ASCOM compliance, usable via HUBs (ACP, Generic, Pipes)

- Reliably self-contained (as few cables as possible, as few units as possible)

- Mechanically reliable (means sturdy as heck)

- One source of power for the entire mount system

Now, what needs to be said in addition to this is that absolute encoders are not the same as motor encoders. Modern servo motors can have encoders built in. That does not say anything about where the axis is pointing, just that the motor knows where it is. Absolute axis encoders simply knows where the axis is, regardless of power and regardless of how you move the axis. This is not something you get in the EQ6-GT from what I can gather. If anyone has one, it would be nice to know if the axis can be declutched and moved with power off and still know where it is at next power on.

The EQ6-GT is probably a very good mount but not suitable for remote operaton.

/per

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ribuck

ribuck

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Hi per I believe it can be de-clutched and then re-engage the clutch and it still knows where it is. I'm just curious what would happen if you did that with the power off but I think is better left for another thread as I don't want to shift the focus away from your GM1000 unboxing / setup.

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perfrej

perfrej

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It's on a truck in Northern Germany right now.

Now, let me explain something about encoders and why most mount producers are not yet there. Firstly, absolute encoders with 10-12 million points per revolution are precision devices and need to be properly calibrated using even better encoders. The mechanical adjustment tolerance for an on-axis encoder is about 1-3 microns, soething which cannot be easily accomplished in your average garage workshop. The rest of the mount, especially the bearings and their positions, suddenly needs to be put into the same league when it comes to precision!

Given that knowledge, please explain how a producer like Astro-Physics can say to their customers that it can be retrofitted! It is most likely not doable because the rest of the mount doesn't live up to the sudden increase in precision needed in order for the encoders to function properly. Before they can sell something that actually works they probably need to redo most of their mount anyway. Retrofit? I don't think so.

When I did my research into what mount to get, the research that made me buy the GM2000HPS, I discovered that it had probably taken 10Micron a good three years of development and testing to get the encoder technology into the QCI series and thus evolve it into the HPS series. Still think somebody is going to succeed in bolting a set of encoders onto an existing mount? Do you suppose 10Micron just takes a QCI mount and throws a set of encoders in there... Nope, that's not the way it is done.

As you move into the high precision territory with a mount like the 10Micron GM1000HPS, you enter a world where small things can throw you off completely. A small sag in the focuser will throw the model into a sad state, as will a reflector primary mirror that can slide half a millimeter in its holder. Guiding, of course, solves a lot of those problems, but it is extremely nice to be able to trust your equiment to catch a half-hour sub unguided.

I am really comfortable with my choice of mount and I am not in the process of getting a scope that weighs 75kg. If I am to get a scope like that I would probably consider a bigger mount, like the GM4000HPS. Another thing to note about the 10Micron mounts is the ratio of the photographic payload to the visual max payload. 20 to 25 for the GM1000HPS. 80%.

/per

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perfrej

perfrej

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Let me add to that...

If you can power off your mount in any position, wait three weeks, move it powered off back and forth for a few days, wait half a year, power it on and it will know - to half an arcsecond - where it is, then you have absolute encoders.

/per

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Astroscot2

Astroscot2

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Hello.

I have been concidering upgrading my mount for a year of so now, My G11 has good tracking and guides sufficiently well with focal lengths of 1200 mm and around 15 kgs load. My initial thoughts were to look at adding encoders i.e the TDM which would smooth out any of the peaks on the guding graphs and improve my guiding - from the reviews Ive read online the TDM as a bolt on option can provide very accurate guiding without the expense of an upper end mount. Ive since swung to looking at the Mesu and the 10 micron as a long term investment however I suspect the cost of these mounts is about to rocket and will be out of my range. Leaving a gap in the market again.

Look forward to hearing the review Per - I may stil be able to afford one yet.

Mark

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ribuck

ribuck

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Mark,

It might be worth starting a new thread for that discussion as this one is pretty much going to be an unboxing / testing of the GM1000. I'm guilty as well as i nearly derailed the post a bit by discussing. If you setup a new thread it will be a better place to discuss encoders and keep the focus on that topic instead of it getting mixing it in with a unboxing review.

Crete a new thread and i'm sure everyone including per will pile in with their views.

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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It was very upsetting to see Per's mount suffer a trivial fault on day one so I'm glad it's now going so well. So is Jonas's from what we see.

I like the Mesu but I must admit that I'm warming to the 10 micron. Years of motorcycling conditioned me not to regard Italians as electrical experts, that's maybe my problem!! (Mind you, British electrics were lousy too. Jospeh Lucas, Prince of Darkness.)

Back in mortal-land I don't think the EQ6 knows where it is if de-clutched and moved manually. My Takahashi EM200 does, though, which is something I like very much. I often feel as if I'm trying to play the violin with gloves on while operating entirely via IT so I like getting hold of the thing and moving it by hand from time to time.

Olly

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