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Which planetary camera?

Tim

By Tim
in Imaging - Discussion

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bus_ter

bus_ter

Posted
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I don't think camcorders are suitable. Low light sensitivity is probably not great, and I imagine a lot of detail removing compression is used to keep the frame rate at video speeds.

However I like the idea of not having to mess around with a laptop. I would be interested to know if anyone has tried.

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StuW

StuW

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Sensors used in ASI and QHY5* cameras do not have higher QE than ICX618. They also have much higher read noise and rolling shutter. They may have higher gain values just to make the effect of beeing more sensitive (while it's just higher multiplier from the gain).

Micron CMOS sensors aren't better than modern Sony CCDs, so don't over-prise the ASI cameras.

I'm interested in your sources for this info.. could you supply?

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riklaunim

riklaunim

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Chameleon can be used as a guider, although it requires some tricks with installing FlyCap 1.X, there was some discussion about it on http://tech.groups.y...om/group/Flea3/ too.

As for sensor QE - you can find some charts from few machine vision vendors, or sometimes from senor sheets - if they have absolute QE value. Some charts below. Also note that on average Micron sensor has around 20e read noise. Sony CCD like ICX618 has around 6-8e read noise. Next thing is rolling shutter which is fragile to unstable image (like bad seeing), or problems with solar H-alpha scopes. Micron sensors aren't cheap for no reason - they are cheap as they aren't the best thing on the market. They do work, but they aren't that good ;)

MT9M001 (QHY5)

mt9m001-mono.png

MT9V032 (QHY5v)

MT9V032.jpg

MT9V022 - Firefly

cmosis4000.png

And others:

dmk72qe.jpg

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jnc71106

jnc71106

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sorry to hijack the thread a little. the dmk21au618 is the better option for planetary yes ?

is its lower resolution the issue when it comes to lunar and solar work ? mosaics should help in that situation surely ?

i already have LRGB filters and fw o i'm all set there

planetary is all very new to me :)

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StuW

StuW

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They do work, but they aren't that good ;)

According to those that have DMK cams and ASI cams, they are comparable if not better in many ways and not just in price! May I ask if you've tried an ASI camera?

A side note, the stats provided do not show the sensors in the current ASI120 cameras which have a QE of 70%.

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riklaunim

riklaunim

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According to those that have DMK cams and ASI cams, they are comparable if not better in many ways and not just in price! May I ask if you've tried an ASI camera?

A side note, the stats provided do not show the sensors in the current ASI120 cameras which have a QE of 70%.

If you really want to you can do a very good image with most cameras. It's all up to how easy it is. You can do a Crab Nebula with the ASI120MM, but you can do the same, like Ring Nebula with a ICX618 camera. You can even use QHY5 Flame nebula... and so on. If you have skills, time, luck, and correctly matched equipment you don't need a very high end camera ;) But without that getting such results in average / usual imaging will be very hard.

Saturn is good example. If an "average" photographer can shoot it easily at let say 30 FPS at max-optimal f-ratio then the camera is rock solid in performance. Experienced photographer will always be able to get more from it.

I've seen and "tested" few Micron/Aptina sensors and I'm just aren't a fan of them. Even if they do get high QE they still have and/or rolling shutter / high read noise, or fail at H-alpha solar imaging. As competitive e2v based cams are similarly priced and are known of good performance - then I recommend those (and you can get GigE or USB3 camera in that price).

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Tim

Tim

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Well, I've stripped the lenses out of one of my camcorders, so will test it out when we get a clear night. I wont have control over the exposure, shutter speed or any other aspect though as the control panel was on the broken touchscreen.

Here is a result from my HD camcorder last year

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JamesF

JamesF

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There are other reasons I'm not really happy with the idea of giving Imaging Source my hard-earned. There are firmware issues with some of their cameras (which they admit), but last I heard they said have no intention of fixing them. I don't particularly wish to purchase from a company who treats their customers that way. Even more so when the cameras are so expensive (and I'm fairly sure that Piotr has said before that he considers them overpriced as they are).

James

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jnc71106

jnc71106

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Another question on the laptop needed to get the best from these cams

I use a Dell D630 when im out with my scope its specs are Intel Core 2 Duo T7250(2.0GHz), 3GB RAM, 120GB 7200rpm SATA

I can get it upto 4GB if needed. It's running XP and only has a handful of program's installed that I use for scope control and imaging

Is this going to be good enough ? I do own another laptop which is more flash but I don't like taking that out with me it stays at home

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jnc71106

jnc71106

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Ok that's great thank you. I will be using this with my 80mm Lomo initially which isn't ideal I know but the results I've seen from people using ED80's have been pretty good and will keep me happy until I can get a SCT or Mak

Given the scope I will be using should I be using any settings in particular ?

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Tim

Tim

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Just curious Tim. How does the C11 HD compare to the C9.25? Is it worth 4x the price?

Short answer? Yes! Everything about the HD scopes is better, better engineering, great features, I am genuinely impressed with mine, and the results have been good so far even at F10. My new reducer just arrived and I have set the camera and everything up with perfect spacing, so hopefully that will yield just as good results in half the time. The reducer alone weighs 1.42KG!!! With any luck i'll get a 460ex soon and have a bigger image to play with.

I was lucky and managed to grab one of the special offer C11's that FLO did a while back, so only paid 2.5 X the price :)

With a bit of extra spending the edge scopes would do it all, Hyperstar for F2, reducer for F7, long focal work at F10, and they do it pretty well.

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riklaunim

riklaunim

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You can have Hyperstar at plain SCT too - and Hyperstar doesn't use the corrector lenses added in the EdgeHD design. The biggest problem for planetary imaging is that those lenses are in the draw tube of the SCT - you can't use coolers mounted to the visual back (and initial active cooling is good thing for small SCTs and nearly a must for C11 or bigger).

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