First scope advice

[taterz]

Hello!

I have read around a fair bit and it seems quite a lot of guides are a little out of date (2-3 years), and I imagine prices and quality has changed since then. I'm having a hard time finding my first scope, as there are so many varieties and different types that it's all getting a little confusing and blurring into walls of text to me.

My sister has agreed to give me a £150 budget on a scope as a gift to start a new hobby with. If adding a little extra cash would make a big difference to the quality of the scope then I could put £100max on top of it.

Maneuverability would be a plus as I live a two minute walk from the beach where there isn't any light sources for a mile around.

Saturn to me would be the key thing to see, as I've dreamed of seeing it with my own eye for a very long time. Although I'm more interested in deep-sky objects more than our solar system.

So far I've looked at these;

Skywatcher Explorer 130P

Skywatcher Explorer 150P OTA

I'm also in South East Kent, right by the beach (a town 10 minutes outside of Dover). Is there anyone local who can tell me what viewing is like here?

Thanks guys!

[VigdisVZ]

If you're going to carry it manually, maybe a refractor could be of use? The dobsons and other newtons are a bit bulky, even if they give most aperture for the money.

I usually recommend dobs for pure viewing power, but portability is a real factor this time.

Edit: You might even consider looking at a small Mak, if Saturn is your prime target, you might want higher focal length (however too much focal length isnt very good with smaller scopes, and it limits you from getting the entirety of larger DSO's)

Oh, and welcome to SGL!

[taterz]

If you're going to carry it manually, maybe a refractor could be of use? The dobsons and other newtons are a bit bulky, even if they give most aperture for the money.

I usually recommend dobs for pure viewing power, but portability is a real factor this time.

Oh, and welcome to SGL!

It's not a massive factor, just it'll help. I would rather have the extra viewing power at the expense of an extra 5-10 minutes carrying/setting up!

Thanks!

[NGC 1502]

Hi & welcome

I'll let others give telescope advice, here is a link to your local astronomy society http://www.sekas.co.uk/SEKAS/Home.html

Most clubs are happy to help.

Cheers, Ed.

[taterz]

Hi & welcome

I'll let others give telescope advice, here is a link to your local astronomy society http://www.sekas.co.uk/SEKAS/Home.html

Most clubs are happy to help.

Cheers, Ed.

Ah brilliant! It seems they meet at Walmer Castle each month, which is a 5 minute walk from my house! Don't know how I've not come across them yet!

[rowan46]

For deep space apparture is required. A 127 mak on a good photo tripod or a c5 spotter 2nd user about £150-250 or a hertage 130p dob

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/optical-tube-assemblies/celestron-c5-spotter-spotting-scope.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-127-ota.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

Other dealers are available

I am loathe to suggest binoculars as you want to see Saturn's rings but they are portable and give great widefield views

[swamp thing]

Hi

Be aware that the second scope you've linked to is an optical tube only ie there is no mounting with it. You will still need to budget for a mount, or build a Dob base.

This comes in under:

http://www.firstligh...p-flextube.html

Personally if I was starting out in astronomy now I would save up and get this:

http://www.firstligh...-dobsonian.html

IMO this scope offers everything a beginner needs to start out in this hobby.

[VigdisVZ]

For portability an EQ mount with counterweight seems a bit counter productive also, wich makes an easy alt-az or a dob the winner in this case.

[Rossco72]

If youre carrying it for 5-10 mins then a dob will get very heavy very quickly and a lightweight refractor will be better.

However, as you are looking to undertake visual astronomy first and foremost, there really is no substitute for aperture. Therefore the largest diameter of scope you can carry and afford is the one you want.

An Alt-Az mount will be ideal for visual as theyre relatively easy and lightweight compared to their EQ cousins.

If it wasn't for your walk i'd easily suggest the largest "second hand" dobsonian you can afford.

If you look on UK astro buy and sell or get access to the classifieds on here you will find decent second hand scopes at a good saving allowing you more "bang for your buck"

Welcome to the hobby and all the best with your observations.

Stuart

[bigrbuk]

The Heritage 130P gets a big thumbs up for portability and aperture too at the required price point. You can then spend the £100 on resources, EP's, red light torch and a bag to put em in

PS I'm no expert, the 130P is my first scope, but does me well in a light polluted back garden.

[rowan46]

Hi

Be aware that the second scope you've linked to is an optical tube only ie there is no mounting with it. You will still need to budget for a mount, or build a Dob base.

This comes in under:

http://www.firstligh...p-flextube.html

Personally if I was starting out in astronomy now I would save up and get this:

http://www.firstligh...-dobsonian.html

IMO this scope offers everything a beginner needs to start out in this hobby.

I agree it's better than all the scopes mentioned but it's not something I would carry for 5-10 minutes walk at night. I know I have tried it

[VigdisVZ]

You could easily build a stray light / dew shield from a camping mat and gaffer tape for it (130p) aswell. The only issue I can see is you might need something sturdy to put it on if you dont want to squat all the time. Either that or something cushioned to place on the ground to sit on.

[swamp thing]

Fit some carry straps to the OTA, that way you can carry it over a shoulder. For the rocker box a D handle would do. This could then be carried in alternate hands on route. That's what I would do.

[rowan46]

That's what I did do but it's still not comfortable that rocker box gets heavy after a few minutes

[swamp thing]

Fair enough I'm a pretty large unit so a few extra kilos goes unnoticed

[MartinB]

Joining your local astro society is an excellent suggestion. Other suggestions - get yourself a comfy reclining chair, a red light head torch, a star chart that can be read with the torch (smart phone apps are fun but I think a proper star chart will excercise you more in learning the night sky. Those published in the astro mags along with the monthly guides are excellent), some very warm clothes and a pair of 7x50 or 10x50 binoculars.

The posts above have explored some of the pros and cons of the different scopes and mounts available to you. Personally I don't think you can beat the simplicity of a dobsonian mounted scope. Alt az (horizontal and vertical) axes are more intuitive when you are first starting out than right ascension and declination (which only become horizontal / vertical at the north pole and the equator!!). A dobsonian mount is very cheap meaning you can spend more on the scope. A 6" newtonian is a marvellous scope and a generation ago would have been considered "large aperture". Newtonians need collimating. This is a relatively straight forward procedure to line up the optical planes and you will find plenty of advice on here if you search the threads. If you have a choice go for a newtonian with a higher F number - this will be easier to focus, is less demanding on the quality of the optics (including eye pieces) and is less sensitive to minor miscollimation. "Fast" (low Fnumber scopes) tend not to hold their collimation very well. A high F number scope will give you a narrower field of view for a given eye piece focal length.

The disadvantage of a dobsonian mount over and equatorial is that you will have to keep moving it both horizontally and vertically as the target moves along with the rest of the sky. Things are easier with an equatorial in that you only have to move the "right ascension" axis. Motorised eq mounts will do this for you, alternatively they will have a "slo motion" control which allows you to move the scope slowly manually. However, things only work like this if the scope is aligned to the north celestial pole.

You will, no doubt, have read about goto scopes which contain a computer and are fully motorised. They will zip around the sky and find any target you care to tap into the hand set. These are great but...you are spending money on microchips rather than optics and they don't help you to learn the sky and develop target finding skills. Avoiding goto initially at least probably immerses you more into the hobby (and it's frustrations!)

Lunar and bright planetary observing is something no one ever tires of. The moon has a life time of features to observe and the light is ever changing. The planets vary in their presentation to us year on year. Saturn is spectacular, Jupiter has lots of fine detail - the more you observe the more you see, venus shows a crescent and helps you appreciate the movements of the planets around the sun, Mars is small and peachy with faint, subtle details. You will learn how atmospheric conditions affect the quality of the view and just when you've seen all there is to see of Jupiter you have a night when the atmosphere is much steadier and you will be blown away! Your targets are easy to find so all your time will be spent observing. Not so when it comes to deep sky! The great orion nebula, M42, is a "wow" and easy to find. M81 and 82 are a lovely close pairing and quite hard to find at first. There are some nice open clusters of stars which you can hunt for, the top billing going to the double cluster in Hercules. But beyond this prepare for frustration, gnashing of teeth and disappointment. Most nebulae and galaxies are spectacularly dim. They are often visible as the faintest of cloudy smudges and you have to learn how to use averted vision and tricks such as tapping the scope to realise that they are even there. It you are the sort of person who likes things served up on a plate walk away from the scope now! If however, you enjoy the challenge and thrill of the chase you will be fine.

Top recommended book for deep sky observing - Turn Left at Orion. Just spend a bit of time learning the night sky before you go frustrating yourself with a scope on deep sky targets and remember some things are best seen through binoculars e.g. M31 the Andromeda Galaxy

[Catweazel]

My advice would be to go for the 150P Dob and then invest in one of these for £20 t o get it to the beach http://www.greenfingers.com/superstore/product.asp?dept_id=200647&pf_id=LS9303D&co=fr&gclid=CJy8xKHL4LMCFaTMtAodMQoASQ

[taterz]

For deep space apparture is required. A 127 mak on a good photo tripod or a c5 spotter 2nd user about £150-250 or a hertage 130p dob

http://www.firstligh...ting-scope.html

http://www.firstligh...ax-127-ota.html

http://www.firstligh...p-flextube.html

Other dealers are available

I am loathe to suggest binoculars as you want to see Saturn's rings but they are portable and give great widefield views

Thanks.

I have a pair of Celestron SkyMaster's already. I got them to make sure this was a hobby I wanted to get into before I started spending more and more on it!

Hi

Be aware that the second scope you've linked to is an optical tube only ie there is no mounting with it. You will still need to budget for a mount, or build a Dob base.

This comes in under:

http://www.firstligh...p-flextube.html

Personally if I was starting out in astronomy now I would save up and get this:

http://www.firstligh...-dobsonian.html

IMO this scope offers everything a beginner needs to start out in this hobby.

Knocking up a stand for it won't be much trouble at all, but for my first one I'd rather have something I can learn to use, that way I'm less prone to making mistakes on making my own!

I have read very good things about the last one you linked. Seems like a likely option!

If youre carrying it for 5-10 mins then a dob will get very heavy very quickly and a lightweight refractor will be better.

However, as you are looking to undertake visual astronomy first and foremost, there really is no substitute for aperture. Therefore the largest diameter of scope you can carry and afford is the one you want.

An Alt-Az mount will be ideal for visual as theyre relatively easy and lightweight compared to their EQ cousins.

If it wasn't for your walk i'd easily suggest the largest "second hand" dobsonian you can afford.

If you look on UK astro buy and sell or get access to the classifieds on here you will find decent second hand scopes at a good saving allowing you more "bang for your buck"

Welcome to the hobby and all the best with your observations.

Stuart

I'm a pretty big guy due to my last job, so carrying a few extra pounds won't trouble me in the slightest!

Never thought about classifieds, I'll check them out!

The Heritage 130P gets a big thumbs up for portability and aperture too at the required price point. You can then spend the £100 on resources, EP's, red light torch and a bag to put em in

PS I'm no expert, the 130P is my first scope, but does me well in a light polluted back garden.

Speaking of resources; what are the essentials I need to get with a scope? Not luxuries like extra lenses, but the essentials?

Joining your local astro society is an excellent suggestion. Other suggestions - get yourself a comfy reclining chair, a red light head torch, a star chart that can be read with the torch (smart phone apps are fun but I think a proper star chart will excercise you more in learning the night sky. Those published in the astro mags along with the monthly guides are excellent), some very warm clothes and a pair of 7x50 or 10x50 binoculars.

The posts above have explored some of the pros and cons of the different scopes and mounts available to you. Personally I don't think you can beat the simplicity of a dobsonian mounted scope. Alt az (horizontal and vertical) axes are more intuitive when you are first starting out than right ascension and declination (which only become horizontal / vertical at the north pole and the equator!!). A dobsonian mount is very cheap meaning you can spend more on the scope. A 6" newtonian is a marvellous scope and a generation ago would have been considered "large aperture". Newtonians need collimating. This is a relatively straight forward procedure to line up the optical planes and you will find plenty of advice on here if you search the threads. If you have a choice go for a newtonian with a higher F number - this will be easier to focus, is less demanding on the quality of the optics (including eye pieces) and is less sensitive to minor miscollimation. "Fast" (low Fnumber scopes) tend not to hold their collimation very well. A high F number scope will give you a narrower field of view for a given eye piece focal length.

The disadvantage of a dobsonian mount over and equatorial is that you will have to keep moving it both horizontally and vertically as the target moves along with the rest of the sky. Things are easier with an equatorial in that you only have to move the "right ascension" axis. Motorised eq mounts will do this for you, alternatively they will have a "slo motion" control which allows you to move the scope slowly manually. However, things only work like this if the scope is aligned to the north celestial pole.

You will, no doubt, have read about goto scopes which contain a computer and are fully motorised. They will zip around the sky and find any target you care to tap into the hand set. These are great but...you are spending money on microchips rather than optics and they don't help you to learn the sky and develop target finding skills. Avoiding goto initially at least probably immerses you more into the hobby (and it's frustrations!)

Lunar and bright planetary observing is something no one ever tires of. The moon has a life time of features to observe and the light is ever changing. The planets vary in their presentation to us year on year. Saturn is spectacular, Jupiter has lots of fine detail - the more you observe the more you see, venus shows a crescent and helps you appreciate the movements of the planets around the sun, Mars is small and peachy with faint, subtle details. You will learn how atmospheric conditions affect the quality of the view and just when you've seen all there is to see of Jupiter you have a night when the atmosphere is much steadier and you will be blown away! Your targets are easy to find so all your time will be spent observing. Not so when it comes to deep sky! The great orion nebula, M42, is a "wow" and easy to find. M81 and 82 are a lovely close pairing and quite hard to find at first. There are some nice open clusters of stars which you can hunt for, the top billing going to the double cluster in Hercules. But beyond this prepare for frustration, gnashing of teeth and disappointment. Most nebulae and galaxies are spectacularly dim. They are often visible as the faintest of cloudy smudges and you have to learn how to use averted vision and tricks such as tapping the scope to realise that they are even there. It you are the sort of person who likes things served up on a plate walk away from the scope now! If however, you enjoy the challenge and thrill of the chase you will be fine.

Top recommended book for deep sky observing - Turn Left at Orion. Just spend a bit of time learning the night sky before you go frustrating yourself with a scope on deep sky targets and remember some things are best seen through binoculars e.g. M31 the Andromeda Galaxy

Thanks for the post. I've already stuck the book in my amazon basket!

I'm not one to walk away from a hobby because I get a little frustrated, I'm sure it'll be something I'll stick to! I'm still stuck on what type of mount to get however.

My advice would be to go for the 150P Dob and then invest in one of these for £20 t o get it to the beach http://www.greenfing...CFaTMtAodMQoASQ

I'll get the girlfriend to carry it! Saves £20

[rowan46]

If you are going to use a trolley for a Dob you are better off with a sack trolley. make sure you strap it well and get pneumatic tyres and if possible bearings in the wheels. You are much less likely to offend the neighbours on late nights with the noise.

Nb that takes you into this territory then http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

one very serious scope

[Planetesimal]

One thing you'll need more than anything else is patience. You'll be thwarted by clouds and the moon at every turn, and the planets are always running off to the southern sky - Saturn for example won't be back in the Northern Hemisphere until late 2013, for evening viewing.

But it's worth the wait!

[bigrbuk]

Re Resources - there are no essentials you HAVE to buy, but if you went with the 130P an upgrade to the stock 10mm EP would be high on my list of priorities, right behind a good book such as Turn Left At Orion as mentioned previously. I've fashioned my own red light torch from a simple wind up torch and some red plastic, I've built my own dew shield/shroud from a piece of neoprene and roll of magnetic tape, etc, but neither are essential.

[Stardust]

I'd say it's good at Walmer, It can't get much better than looking out to sea. I'm outside Dover and I get pretty good Milky Way even here. Sekas are a friendly bunch and the public observing nights are good place to start. Go along and have a chat, I'll try and make the next one.

[Aenima]

Hi and welcome,

So much great advice, you found the right place

Not sure if its been mentioned already but a very important essential if you buy a reflector - on any mount - you'll need a colimator, a cheshire is a good basic but effective collimator. A reflector needs regular aligning of mirrors to remain optically functional, every session you'll need to at least tweak it.

For all round observing a 130-150 mm reflector will be good on planets and many of the brighter deep sky objects, how you mount it depends on factors like portability and where your observing site will be, also quite often people enter into stargazing thinking they'll just be obseving and wont be interested in astrophotography ( I did ) but after looking at a few objects the urge to take pictures of what you see can take a strong hold, it can start with holding your phone up to the eyepiece to snapshot the moon and bam! an addiction develops. - it got me fast, and still has. - This will involve a bigger mount but its surprising the trouble people will go through for the purpose of getting good images and will find various ways to achieve this.

In the case of maybe getting into imaging, an equatorial mount will be needed, but if you think maybe that at a later date you can get into that stuff then best to keep the first purchase simple.

A basic alt-azimuth on a tripod is probably most easy to carry and put away because it comes apart and folds up - also it will take other scopes you may end up buying for it. A dobsonian will be easy to use and cheap but they can be a little bit bulkier than small tripod based types, not really due to weight but just awkward shapes. However, a dob will allow you to get the bigger aperture for the price and if you fancy it they can also be used with a webcam to do planetary and lunar imaging - lots of fun and with potentially great results - and still be good all rounders visually (i'm refering mainly to dobs with 130mm - 150mm aperture, otherwise the 200p can be great but rather big.) with a range of suitable targets - planets, moon and some deep sky objects all within range.

For portability and power a maksutov - eg. 90mm - 127mm aperture - will reduce size and weight while remaining relatively good at high magnifications, though their optics can be a little more complicated than a basic refractor/reflector - but a great many stargazers find no problems at all in this respect. ( If I had the money, a nice skywatcher 150mm maksutov would be top of my list ) they bounce the light off an extra mirror and so are nearly half the length of a simiar apertured reflector for example, so make good porta-scopes on a mid-sized tripod.

And refractors are your basic tube telescope, they can be expensive but need less maintaining and easier to carry, and with the right upgrade of mount (EQ type) imaging with them can be very good. The pro's are them being lighter and sometimes smaller.

I dont fully agree that a goto will hinder your learning of the sky, it will help you in a number of ways. Star names are needed for alignment which you will have to then learn and rather than spending all night sweeping an area of sky for a faint object the goto will show you the general area of a lot of otherwise unnoticed interesting stuff, and it also works the other way round where you point it at a certain object and it will give you its name and other info - say you point it at a bright star and press 'identify' it would tell you that you've found the planet Uranus, or which constellation you are currently aimed at. It really can be a help when hunting deep sky objects too, and after a while you'll be able to look up and say 'there's the position of M57 the ring nebula, in the constellation Lyra'

But I definitely agree that its cost will take half your budget, effectively halving the size of the telescope you put on it. It will depend a lot on budget.

Whichever scope/mount you end up getting, be warned - its an addictive and often expensive hobby, but once hooked you'll love it and will never want to stop learning.....

Best of luck in your search,

Ask as many questions as need be.

Regards

Aenima