Death to orange gradient! please help me buy the right filter?

[Chris]

HI,

I've been dabling with imaging for just over a year now with fairly basic equipment and would like to start improving my results a bit, one really big problem I get is massive orange gradient on my images. I can't seem to get the trial for gradient Xterminator to work and I'm not a natural when it comes to processing so I was thinking about trying to sort this out before I even get to the processing stage by using an LP filter.

I use a modded Canon 350D (basic IR filter removed mod) and I was thinking of getting a clip in filter because I'm likely to be swapping between camera lenses and scopes a lot and the filter can just remain in the camera and also protect it from the dust bunnies!

I've done a bit of research but I'm still not 100% sure what to get? They are pretty expensive so I don't wan't to get it wrong when putting up a wanted add for example.

Which LP filter would you guys recommend for a Modded filter removed Canon?

If I can't buy one second hand where is the best place to buy one new I can't see them on the FLO site?

Is there a cheaper alternative to a clip in filter, I have a reducer on my WO66 which seems to have an internal thread, can you get filters with an external thread on which could screw into this, or is there another way on attaching a filter to this setup, the reason I ask this is I know a non clip in would be cheaper.

Any help and advice is much appreciated.

Chris

[jgs001]

Chris a lot will depend on the LP, but I use an Astronomik CLS Clip filter and that works well for me. There are other varieties such as the IDAS (I don't know any details I'm afraid). Bear in mind with the clip filters, you can't use EF-S lenses (without modding the lens) as the rear element protrudes into the camera body. I know the CLS comes in a standard filter thread housing, both 1.25" and 2" I believe.

[steppenwolf]

The filter of choice is the Hutech IDAS LP filter but ( a ) it is expensive and ( b ) you will have to devise a method of incorporating it in your image rain as you would need a 2" version. A lot can be done in post processing to alleviate this issue though as the example from my own garden shows but the above filter really does do a fantastic job:-

[Chris]

Chris a lot will depend on the LP, but I use an Astronomik CLS Clip filter and that works well for me. There are other varieties such as the IDAS (I don't know any details I'm afraid). Bear in mind with the clip filters, you can't use EF-S lenses (without modding the lens) as the rear element protrudes into the camera body. I know the CLS comes in a standard filter thread housing, both 1.25" and 2" I believe.

Hi John, I have quite a lot of LP from Ipswich town centre which is a mile to the south of me, and some from local street lights plus my new neighbour has arrived with the habit of having at least two back windows lit at all times with 100W light bulbs and no curtains, these are still on at 6am in the morning! Not sure I can do much about the neighbour lights (not very approachable) but the other sources of LP might get cut out by the right filter?

The CLS clip filter seems to be a very popular choice, did you get yours direct from Astronomic? I'm finding it slightly difficult to differentiate between the names for the ones suitable for modded cameras and the ones for standard cameras or viusal use, is it the Astronomic CLS-CCD clip filter the one for modded cameras. I'm leaning this way if I can make sure I don't accidently get the wrong type:D

I have an EF 18-55mm kit lens, I take it that EF are ok, its just the better EFS lenses?

Thanks for your advice,

Chris

[Chris]

The filter of choice is the Hutech IDAS LP filter but (a) it is expensive and ( you will have to devise a method of incorporating it in your image rain as you would need a 2" version. A lot can be done in post processing to alleviate this issue though as the example from my own garden shows but the above filter really does do a fantastic job:-

Hi Steve, crikey! your LP looks like mine:) its good to see that you can completely get rid of gradient if you have the right software and skills and thats nicely illustrated by the way! I have heard the IDAS mentioned but I think I would only go for a non clip in if it was a cheaper option, and by what you say they are the best but not cheap. I think I'm leaning towards shelling out for a CLS clip I just need to know the exact one needed for modded cameras, and the best place to get them from? Is direct from Astronomic the best place? I might put an add up just incase someone wants to sell theirs:)

Thanks for your advice,

Chris

[Chris]

Just in case anyone needs to know which CLS Clip filter they need for their camera, I've just spoken to Gina on here and its the normal CLS filter if you have a standard camera and the CLS CCD filter if you have a full spectrum modded camera.

Modern Astronomy and Ian King stock them.

Cheers,

Chris

[jgs001]

Hi John, I have quite a lot of LP from Ipswich town centre which is a mile to the south of me, and some from local street lights plus my new neighbour has arrived with the habit of having at least two back windows lit at all times with 100W light bulbs and no curtains, these are still on at 6am in the morning! Not sure I can do much about the neighbour lights (not very approachable) but the other sources of LP might get cut out by the right filter?

The CLS clip filter seems to be a very popular choice, did you get yours direct from Astronomic? I'm finding it slightly difficult to differentiate between the names for the ones suitable for modded cameras and the ones for standard cameras or viusal use, is it the Astronomic CLS-CCD clip filter the one for modded cameras. I'm leaning this way if I can make sure I don't accidently get the wrong type:D

I have an EF 18-55mm kit lens, I take it that EF are ok, its just the better EFS lenses?

Thanks for your advice,

Chris

Chris, the EF-S (S - Short Back Focus) lenses are designed for, and only fit on APS-C crop sensor Canon bodies, and should never be used on the APS-H or full frame bodies. EF lenses work perfectly with the clip filters, and work on all Canon bodies. However, be careful, the 18-55 lens supplied as a kit lens with an APS-C body (both of the bodies in your sig) is, in fact, an EF-S lens. Check with the lens removed, there's a rubberised section sits behind the mount... an EF lens has nothing protruding behind the lens mount. I just checked my 18-55, and where the focal length range is written on the body, near the lens mount, and under the lens cap around the objective, it clearly states EFS. Unless you're prepared to remove the rear element of an EF-S lens (I've heard about people sawing it off, but have no intention of trying it myself) you can't use the clip filters with them.

[Psychobilly]

Hutech have a variation of the clip in called the Multi Filter Adaptor or MFA.. This allows a slimmer celled 1.25" filter to be fited inside the camera ..

I have both the CLS-CCD Clip-in and IDAS MFA and the IDAS is my prefered choice form my LP.... I also use the IDAS in 2" format on my scopes - although it'ts on holidays with another member on the south coast at the moment...

http://www.teleskop-...n-EOS-DSLR.html

[Ewan]

Can i take your other bits on holiday please Psychobilly :-) very generous of you well done. I know you saw my post on the CANON DSLR T-RING with 2" Filter didn't that supplier stock anything else of use to you Chris ?

I will be investing in the UHC-S of some kind soon, good hunting though.

[Psychobilly]

The adaptor is interesting... I might have a look at modifying some of the spare t-rings that I have here to take the 2" filters...

[Chris]

Chris, the EF-S (S - Short Back Focus) lenses are designed for, and only fit on APS-C crop sensor Canon bodies, and should never be used on the APS-H or full frame bodies. EF lenses work perfectly with the clip filters, and work on all Canon bodies. However, be careful, the 18-55 lens supplied as a kit lens with an APS-C body (both of the bodies in your sig) is, in fact, an EF-S lens. Check with the lens removed, there's a rubberised section sits behind the mount... an EF lens has nothing protruding behind the lens mount. I just checked my 18-55, and where the focal length range is written on the body, near the lens mount, and under the lens cap around the objective, it clearly states EFS. Unless you're prepared to remove the rear element of an EF-S lens (I've heard about people sawing it off, but have no intention of trying it myself) you can't use the clip filters with them.

Thanks thats great info, yes I've just checked and it is indeed an EFS lens, I have no idea how I missed the writing on it before and it does like you say have a rubber smaller diameter bit sticking out the back which would hit the clip. Its a good job you told me before I tried sticking this lens on with the clip in and damaging it!

I plan on buying some old manual lenses off the bay, I won a bid on an old Canon USM 70-210 lens the other day which I'm hoping will be ok, but I would also like a nifty fifty as I've heard good things, but like you say I will be careful of the fittings now you've given me the heads up:)

Thanks

Chris

[Chris]

Hutech have a variation of the clip in called the Multi Filter Adaptor or MFA.. This allows a slimmer celled 1.25" filter to be fited inside the camera ..

I have both the CLS-CCD Clip-in and IDAS MFA and the IDAS is my prefered choice form my LP.... I also use the IDAS in 2" format on my scopes - although it'ts on holidays with another member on the south coast at the moment...

http://www.teleskop-...n-EOS-DSLR.html

Thanks, if money was no object I'd probably go for it but alas its a bit more than I can justify at the moment despite how much it would probably improve my images. On the plus side, it does have the effect of making me feel less guilty about buying the cheaper CLS which I was originally thinking was expensive:D

Cheers

Chris

[Chris]

Can i take your other bits on holiday please Psychobilly :-) very generous of you well done. I know you saw my post on the CANON DSLR T-RING with 2" Filter didn't that supplier stock anything else of use to you Chris ?

I will be investing in the UHC-S of some kind soon, good hunting though.

This does sound interesting, I'll be having a look for this thread:)

[ollypenrice]

I don't battle against LP but I'd just add that in post processing the Dynamic Background Extraction tool in Pixinsight is the most powerful gradient remover I've ever seen and it balances the colour channels into the bargain. Sure, try to cut it back at source but DBE wopuld be a great friend to you, I think.

Olly

[Chris]

Thanks Olly, that sounds very promising I think you can guess what my next Google search will be:)

I've also Emailed a guy on astrobuy about a CCD clip for sale, so if I can get hold of both the filter and Pixinsight I'm sure I can defeat the orange soup!!

Thanks again,

Chris

[kirkster501]

Chris is this the CLIP you were looking?

http://www.365astron...eos-p-2201.html

...since I am looking at that too. I think my images would be quite nice - for a beginner - without the hideous orange.

I have two concerns:

1. Would that work on an unmodded DSLR? EDIT: Yes you can: http://www.astronomik.com/en/clip-filter-system.html

2. Concern is that the investment in that is somewhat wasted when (and if) i upgrade to a CCD.

Steve

[Chris]

Hi Steve, yes thats the one I need for my full spectrum modded camera, and thats a good price new as well:)

The one you need if your camera is standard is the CLS clip not the CLS-CCD clip in your link. The CCD one has a mild IR cut filter in it for full sectrum modded cameras where the harsh IR cut filter is removed. When you remove the IR cut filter in a camera it lets more H-Alpha in but also more of the unwanted IR and UV aslo, so the extra filter in the CCD clip cuts out some of the unwanted IR and UV. If you have a standard camera this stuff is already filtered out.

I hope I've explained this right:D

Chris

EDIT:You can always sell the filter if you want to move on up to a CCD, they seem to hold there price reasonably well, The one I'm in talks about buying is 90 pounds second hand, 128 new.

[Psychobilly]

Yep thats about the long and short of it

[kirkster501]

Hi guys, okay, this one?.....

http://www.365astron...ras-p-2175.html

...but that does not mention "light pollution" specifically?

What the difference between the CCD and none CCD ones do you know?

Its a minefield this whole filter business..... !

Steve

EDIT: Just re-read your reply Chris. Yes understand the difference between CCD and none CCD now ! Apologies I should RTFM

[Psychobilly]

That link you posted is to the UHC-S rather than the CLS....

[kirkster501]

Ah right, thanks

This one:

http://www.365astronomy.com/astronomik-cls-visual-clipfilter-for-canon-eos-cameras-p-2184.html

????

Or can you tell me which one please? The one in this link mentions visual though......!

Steve

[Psychobilly]

i will check now - I was using the smartphone earlier...

Yep that's the one.. strange description though... t

[Chris]

The description modern astronomy gives is a good one if you want to check it out:)

I've just bought the one on astrobuyandsell so I'm a very happy chappy, I'll get PIxinsight also I reckon:)

[kirkster501]

The description modern astronomy gives is a good one if you want to check it out:)

I've just bought the one on astrobuyandsell so I'm a very happy chappy, I'll get PIxinsight also I reckon:)

Congrats Chris. Full report on how you get on with it expected of course

Steve

[Chris]

Absolutely Steve, the filters got its work cut out around these parts so it will be very interesting to see what difference it makes:)