I want to see Jupiter better!

[Broobit]

Hello!

I am a complete novice and I have a Meade 4504.

I've been looking at Jupiter recently and while it's very exciting for a newbie, I'm a bit disappointed that I can't actually see any detail on the planet. (I think I might have seen 2 of its moons either side of it last night but I can't be certain!) I've just got the standard 25mm lens although I did put in the 2x Barlow lens that came with it and I'm sure I've put it in correctly but to be honest, Jupiter looks no different with this extra lens in place.

I realise the lenses that came with the telescope probably aren't the best, so can anyone recommend a lens I could buy that would allow me to see detail on Jupiter please?

Thank you!

P.S. And here's a daft question to end with...... is it me or is Alderbaran flashing red?? Am I going mad or seeing things?!

[glowjet]

Your scope is in the region of some 900mm fl so your 25mm ep will only give you a mag of 36x this should readily show Jupiter's moons but there is hardly enough mag to show any surface detail, even with your 2x Barlow this will not improve things any great deal as this will only increase it to 72x. working on the objective which is 114mm or just short of 4.5" then your absolute maximum would be, taking the general rule of thumb as 50x per inch, in the region of 225x but to be more practical with the seeing in GB skies this will come down to around 30x per inch at the most, which will give somewhere around the 140x mark. By using a 7mm Orthoscopic this may achieve what you want for Planetary obs or you could try a 6mm plossl. What will give you better results though is a very clear sky and a very dark site. Perfect collimation is also essential. So at the end of the day, to at least stand a chance to see what you want, your best bet is to invest in an additional eye piece, there are many to choose from on the s/h market without buying new. As for your last question, Aldeberan Alpha Tauri, is the eye of the Bull and is classified as a Red Orange Giant HTH

John.

[Connect2space]

If you have a 10mm try using that with the barlow lens. Good luck!!

[cyborg421]

Please also bear in mind that seeing conditions vary a great deal. If you have been trying to observe Jupiter in the early part of the evening, chances are you will be looking through a fair bit of atmosphere. This can have a massive effect on what you see.

What you see is not always about the telescope and eyepieces.

Simon

[Grommie]

I'm a big fan of this utility which shows where Jupiter's (main) moons are at any given time. If you know in advance it could help you find them. The view can be altered to suit your specific equipment. i.e. Reflector, refractor etc.

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/objects/planets/3307071.html#

Steve

[Moonshane]

bear in mind that no matter what scope you use, sharp visual images of Jupiter are likely to be found at 120-200x magnification. This equates to a 2p held at arm's length.

[breezy]

Good use of scale moonshane , was trying to explain it to sprog last night , will pinch your description if I may ...

[Broobit]

Thank you for all the comments. I was looking at Jupiter around 9/9:30 so I guess that's quite early in astronomers' terms!

So how much would I need to pay for this eyepiece? I don't want to spend a fortune if it's not going to make much difference.

Thank you!

[ronin]

The 4504 is a 114mm reflector, have you got it collimated? If not then first do that as if it is out what you see will be poor.

To get 100x you need a 9mm eyepiece, so youwant something in this area, so 8mm, 9mm or 10mm.

Now the budget, how much do you want to spend?

You can get Vixen plossl's for £30 from FLO, they do an 8mm or a 10mm at £30. Plossl's do not have much eye relief at the shorter focal lengths so if you wear glasses these may not be that good.

Next are the BST Starguiders at £47, there is only the 8mm in these, they have reasonable eye relief - Sky's the Limit sell them.

Sky's the Limit also appear to have a BST Wide Angle at £43. You will have to check the specification and focal lengths. Will stop here as after these the cost is over £50.

One aspect I am unsure of is the scope, is the mirror spherical or parabolic. If spherical then do not go too high on the magnification.

[keithatrochdale]

You might try a 8 - 24mm Seben zoom off e-bay for under £50.

[glowjet]

I mentioned the Orthoscopic which is a great planetary eyepiece, these can be had s/h for around £20 - £25 in the circle T range which is an excellent ocular, something in the 7mm range should improve your views of Jupiter and Saturn and a lot of single and double stars as well, and if in the unlikely event you do not like it, the chances are you will recover most of your outlay if you resell it

John.

[euphony]

Thank you for all the comments. I was looking at Jupiter around 9/9:30 so I guess that's quite early in astronomers' terms!

I'd say give it another hour or so as I have the same problem. I haven't been able to tease hardly any detail out when I have had the chance to view it. It just pops above the neighbouring houses around 9:30 so i have a glance, but the atmosphere distorts it too much, I try and wait but every single time I have had the opportunity to be out, the clouds have then rolled over before it gets higher in the sky

[Luke]

I was staggered at the Autumn Kelling Star Party to see what a difference good conditions can make to viewing Jupiter.

It was in the wee hours and I'd heard before people say that the air can settle by then, improving the viewing.

But wow, once my eye had a grip on it, it felt like looking at a photo. It was also the one and only time that I have tried 300x magnification on it where I felt the view was sharp at that high mag.

I'm not sure I'll ever get as good a view at home as our views at home are surrounded by rooftops in all directions, whch I guess will have warm air rising above them so the air won't get as stable. But it did show me what a huge difference in view you can get depending on conditions!

Good luck Broobit getting a better view. Magnification-wise, I like around 200x upwards for Jupiter. To find out magnification, divide the telescope focal length by the eyepiece focal length. e.g. a 5mm eyepiece would give you 910/5 = 182x magnification, so that should give a decent mag.

2x Barlowing should double the mag so using a 10mm barlowed should make it like a 5mm eyepiece, giving about 180x as well.

Good luck, Jupiter viewing can get quite addictive

Please also bear in mind that seeing conditions vary a great deal. If you have been trying to observe Jupiter in the early part of the evening, chances are you will be looking through a fair bit of atmosphere. This can have a massive effect on what you see.

What you see is not always about the telescope and eyepieces.

Simon

[Broobit]

Thank you everyone for your helpful comments!

So I guess before I rush into buying a new lens I need to consider what could already be causing me problems.... so in my case, looking too early in the evening and being surrounded by houses and the hot air coming off them, plus I've got the dreaded collimation to deal with too!

I emailed my local astronomy group and a very helpful chap offered to pop over and have a look at my telescope. He aligned the viewfinder properly for me but he also said it needed collimating but he didn't have time to do it. He offered to pop back another time but I haven't heard from him since and I don't like to ask as he's giving up his free time! But then that means I'll have to try to do it myself which I've heard isn't easy - especially when you don't know what you're doing!

Also, I've just had a look and come across a MH9mm eyepiece that came with the telescope. Could this be what I'm looking for? It doesn't look like the 25mm eyepiece I have been using - there's no rubbery bit around the top. I've just held it up to the light and the lens looks dirty, or perhaps it could be condensation? So that's going to need a gentle clean before I try it out.

[glowjet]

Your MH9 could be a Modified Huygens, it is rather dated and the performance, I have read, is not outstanding, mostly for use in long focal length scopes. I also gather that theses early oculars did not have the elements cemented together, so with care you could strip it down and clean it as dust may have crept between the glass, but take care that you put it back together in the same order. The only thing then is to try it, as it will give you 100x mag, at least even if the quality is not good you will be able to see the effect of extra magnification

John.

[Broobit]

I guess it's worth a try then! From what I understand they stopped making my particular model telescope around 2000 so I'm not surprised you say this eyepiece is rather dated!

[freeflyjay]

bear in mind that no matter what scope you use, sharp visual images of Jupiter are likely to be found at 120-200x magnification. This equates to a 2p held at arm's length.

think your being a bit optimistic there, i`d say more like a pea not a 2p!

[Moonshane]

not if you consider all your eye can see when you look at Jupiter in an eyepiece and the 2p in your fingers.

[KenG]

This reminds me of the "Peanuts" comic strip where Charlie Brown stands on the pitcher's mound to get a closer view of the moon.

[faulksy]

This reminds me of the "Peanuts" comic strip where Charlie Brown stands on the pitcher's mound to get a closer view of the moon.

:grin:

[breezy]

Guess the size of the scope makes the difference

[cantharis]

Maybe a 1p at arm´s length !