Debayering a DSLR's Bayer matrix.

[russellhq]

Sounds like it's going better this morning. Good luck getting the last piece off.

[Gina]

Thanks Russel   I think the last bit is going to be difficult - and that's an understatement!!   The top seems to be very securely glued on.  I started carefully lifting where there was some white but with another ping, a small bit flew off!  Fortunately, well clearing the sensor - I think it landed on the floor.  We are now up to a totally glued area.  At the other end the glue has gone and the glass to frame area is showing moire fringes.  If I apply too much pressure the corner will fly off   I don't think heat is an option - I've already applied a lot of heat to that area and I don't know how to apply more heat without risking cooking the sensor or gold wires.

TBH I don't know what to do next.  I knew the glue wanted loosening all the way round and after the rest went I concentrated on the top bit but still very carefully as in your video.  In spite of cooling the frame was hot - probably 70-80C going by touch.

[Gina]

Might be an idea to put some adhesive tape over the exposed sensor and wires and also on the remaining glass so that it doesn't drop onto the wires or sensor.

I'm giving it a rest for a bit while I gather my thoughts.  And allow time for any suggestions anyone might have

[russellhq]

Can you post a picture of the sensor? Might stimulate some ideas?

[Thalestris24]

Hi Gina

Not sure if anything on the JTW debayering tutorial might help or suggest a way forward:

http://www.jtwastronomy.com/tutorials/debayer.html

They informed me a few days ago that they've successfully debayered the 1100d I ordered

Cheers

Louise

[Gina]

Can you post a picture of the sensor? Might stimulate some ideas?

OK - yer tis   In case of confusion with my earlier postes, the RHS of this photo was at the top when I was heating the cover glass.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Gina

[Gina]

Hi Gina

Not sure if anything on the JTW debayering tutorial might help or suggest a way forward:

http://www.jtwastronomy.com/tutorials/debayer.html

They informed me a few days ago that they've successfully debayered the 1100d I ordered

Cheers

Louise

Thank you Louise   Yes, that's the method I've been using, pretty much.

Glad you're debayering is done

[Thalestris24]

Thank you Louise   Yes, that's the method I've been using, pretty much.

Glad you're debayering is done

Thanks - it's taken them an awful long time! I hope it's not too long before they actually ship it. Patience is a virtue...

I believe they do a lot of their method under a (presumably low-power) microscope and in a flow cabinet. I imagine they use a hot air gun rather than a butane torch - the flame temperature must be potentially rather high!

Good luck

Louise

[Gina]

I wonder if they have a number of failures and that's why they charge a lot for the finished camera and take a long time

[Thalestris24]

Hi

Well they are a business so have to allow for losses plus they work on new cameras so higher risk. They are short staffed too at the moment. I suppose 600 Euros isn't exorbitant for the amount of work involved. They don't guarantee perfect sensors so there will be imperfections. Hopefully flats will hide them

Louise

[ChrisLX200]

CAn you use a soldering iron to apply heat locally? Maybe put a blade into the gap twixt glass/frame and heat, then push the blade in to wedge them apart as you work your way around?

ChrisH

[Gina]

Hi

Well they are a business so have to allow for losses plus they work on new cameras so higher risk. They are short staffed too at the moment. I suppose 600 Euros isn't exorbitant for the amount of work involved. They don't guarantee perfect sensors so there will be imperfections. Hopefully flats will hide them

Louise

They've brought their prices down since I last looked   I agree that's not a bad price

[Gina]

CAn you use a soldering iron to apply heat locally? Maybe put a blade into the gap twixt glass/frame and heat, then push the blade in to wedge them apart as you work your way around?

ChrisH

I have a blade in the Dremel blowtorch kit so I guess I could try that

[Thalestris24]

They've brought their prices down since I last looked   I agree that's not a bad price

600 is for the uncooled mono 1100d - I don't think it's changed recently. I decided the cooled version was too expensive for me!

[Gina]

Ah, I see

[russellhq]

OK - yer tis   In case of confusion with my earlier postes, the RHS of this photo was at the top when I was heating the cover glass.

Cover Glass Removal 13.jpg

That does look quite precarious! Any more use of the torch might fry those gold wires if you wave it over the wrong part of the sensor

Also, not sure why your glass keeps cracking. I can only guess it's due to the heat being applied too quickly. What setting did you have the torch on? I had mine set very, very low to the point where it was almost getting a yellow flame.

[Gina]

That does look quite precarious! Any more use of the torch might fry those gold wires if you wave it over the wrong part of the sensor

Also, not sure why your glass keeps cracking. I can only guess it's due to the heat being applied too quickly. What setting did you have the torch on? I had mine set very, very low to the point where it was almost getting a yellow flame.

I'm not going to risk the gas flame on it any more.  May try hot knife-edge.

I had the torch on it's lowest setting.  I guess I must have applied too much heat trying to get that last bit of glue to turn white   That was when the glass cracked and flew off.

[Gina]

Put some insulation tape over the sensor and on the glass.  Tried the hot knife - no joy, just turned the glue black where I had gouged out bits that showed white!  Then attacked it with an Exacto knife.  Another couple of bits of glass broke off - absolutely no sign of it shifting over most of that edge   There is now a strip of glass remaining along that edge and the sensor is now clear. 

In spite of all the precautions, there is some damage to the sensor surface.  I think the chances of getting the last of the glass off is negligible   Next I put the filters back onto the sensor unit (to avoid any more damage), put it back into the camera and reassembled the camera for testing.

The good news - the sensor still works.  The bad news - two bright magenta horizontal lines and one black vertical line   The glass also pulled the sticky tape down onto the middle of the sensor leaving a sticky patch but I imagine I shall be able to get that off with IPA.

I'm not going to try any more to remove the rest of the glass.  If I don't succeed in totally destroying the sensor in debayering I shall have to build up the frame to the level of the remaining cover glass before putting one of my spare cover glasses on to seal it.  The remaining glass is clear of the imaging area. 

I'll take and post some pics shortly

[Davey-T]

Just had a quick browse through the 85 pages of this thread and wondered if anyone had tried small diamond discs on their Dremel as the buffing wheels seem ok for removing the matrix, maybe cut out the center of the glass and remove the edge separately,or just leave it and the glue in place, probably not hand held though need mounting so the height could be controlled.

Still got my old 450d awaiting its fate once a definitive method is sorted

Dave 

Edited May 4, 2014 by Davey-T

[Gina]

Images from sensor - flat and view through living room window.

[Gina]

Just had a quick browse through the 85 pages of this thread and wondered if anyone had tried small diamond discs on their Dremel as the buffing wheels seem ok for removing the matrix, maybe cut out the center of the glass and remove the edge separately,or just leave it and the glue in place, probably not hand held though need mounting so the height could be controlled.

Still got my old 450d awaiting its fate once a definitive method is sorted

Dave 

The cover glass on the 450D comes off easily with an Exacto knife or similar - no heat required

[Gina]

Cover glass photos at different angles.

[Gina]

Next will be the epoxy potting resin   I shall practice on a duff sensor first before tackling this one.  I'll add the resin and let it cure before cleaning the muck off the sensor.  Then we get to the interesting part

Edited May 5, 2014 by Gina

[russellhq]

Gina, this might be a bit cheeky to ask, but seeing as you have a number of 1100D sensors in various states of operation, is there any chance you could take one of the dead ones and remove the sensor package from the PCB and post a photograph of the underside of the PCB. It would be interesting to see what's on the other side of the PCB that needs isolating from the cold finger. At the moment all I can see is the row of pins from one if the ICs, but it would be useful to know if there is any more critical circuitry under there!

Good luck with the potting epoxy!

[Gina]

Thank you Russel

I already have a photo of the sensor side of the imaging board I think.  I can tell you that that what looks like pins are actually tiny SMDs tiny little capacitors or resistors at a guess.  If I can't find the photo I'll strip down an 1100D sensor assembly and take another.  Happy to oblige

Later... Found the photos

Edited May 5, 2014 by Gina