First "proper" telescope - which brand, which mount?

[neptulix]

Hello!

I am planning to buy my first "proper" telescope soon. I had a cheap one as a child which was quite a disappointment (it was a christmas present of my grandma), so now I'd like to buy a decent one for my needs.

I am not totally new to astronomy, I know the night sky and astronomy basics quite well already. For example, finding polaris and some other stars and constellations is not a problem for me, I also own a turnable star chart and know my annual standard book to buy (german).

Now, a telescope should help me get deeper into the topic again.

After studying the internet, I already decided for a Maksutov 127mm. It fits my needs to be lightweight and portable also in trains and on planes, while still good enough to use for planets and moons (which is my main interest).

I have looked at Skywatcher SkyMax 127 and Celestron NexStar 127 SLT.

Does it play a role from which company I buy?

Then, I am still very confused about the mounts.

Are the telescopes I mentioned compatible to any mount? The bundles mostly offer them with a GoTo, NEQ 3 or the SupaTrak mount.

As the specifications hardly ever mention the weight, I wonder which of these 3 mounts would be the most portable.

Depending on this, it would be easier to decide on a telescope or bundle.

For example, I don't need a GoTo system, but if these are more iightweight than the other, then it's a big bonus for that reason.

Also, I could see (and if only a tiny spot) Neptune with either, right?

I know it won't be the ideal scope to see it, but my priority is portability.

Looking forward to your comments!

[kevrees]

I think i read somewhere that skywatcher and celestron telescopes are made by the same company.

I got no idea of mounts sorry but looking at pictures, them eq mounts look bulky and heavy. Im sure someone who's forgotten more about astronomy than i'll ever know will be able to be more helpful.

Not sure how accurate this thing is but if it is pretty close to how objects 'really' look through a telescope it could be useful http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fov.htm when it loads up, click the 'switch to visual mode' im sure the skymax 127 is on there.

[neptulix]

Cool, thanks!

According to this, it would be visible with a 8mm eyepiece, just really very very tiny. But better than nothing.

[umadog]

The visual mode from "12 dimensional string site" is total fiction. It just shows you cropped colour (!) astrophotos (at least that's what it does on my PC). If you want to know what DSOs look like through a telescope then go to the sketching forum or use Google to find sketches. Here are some of my favourite sketches: http://www.deepskywa...y-sketches.html The caveat is that these are from dark skies, by an experienced observer, and using an 8" Dobsonian.

Neptulix, if you don't need GoTo then don't waste your money on it. Avoid like the plague if you don't need it. Such a scope needs a power source to function and many of these GoTo scopes can't be pushed around the sky by hand. You have to use the motor drives, which is painfully slow and noisy. Vixen sell an excellent Alt/Az mount called the "Porta II". If you want portability then this is a good bet. An equatorial mount isn't going to be as portable. You can by the optical tube and mount separately and build the scope that suits you. There are few good Alt/Az mounted scopes out there as manufacturers are trying to push the more expensive GoTo option.

Most of these scopes are made by the companies GSO or Synta then badged as Meade, Celestron, etc. Of course there are still differences in build quality, etc. Just like most electronics are made by Foxconn but there are quality differences there too. The manufacturer certainly matters from a customer service perspective. Where you buy from also influences this. If you value the service you should be from a local astronomical telescope store where they know what they're doing (not a department store). Some of these manufacturers don't have a good reputation for after-sales service. Not naming names: Google it. You could consider a company that makes the scopes in Japan, the US or Europe. You'll pay more but the quality is often better.

There is another option too. Ultra-portable Newtonians are becoming more common in Europe now. You can now get a 10" Dobsonian that will be far more portable than a 5" Mak and a tripod. http://www.sumerianoptics.com I have one, they're great. The set up time is around 15 minutes. There's a waiting list now but they prices are very reasonable.

Oh, and Neptune you will see as a small disk. Uranus also. Detail is only realistically possibly on Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. You will see the phases of Venus and Mercury. You're probably looking at needing at least a 10" scope for Pluto (which obviously looks star-like).

[neptulix]

Hey, thanks for the info. The vixen mount looks good! Great to know I can use it so I can buy them separately.

DeepSky is not my main interest, I'm rather into planets and moons. I read dobsonians are more for DeepSky than for solar system, so I sorted them out already, or am I wrong there? Or would Neptune be considered as DeepSky already?

Anyone here who actually has a 127 Mak and spotted Neptune with it?

Edit:

Sorry, saw your edit only now

OK that looks good, I can live without Pluto. Poor guy.

Would the Skywatcher AZ3 mount be good enough for the start?

[westel]

1 month ago i bought brand new Celestron Maksutov 127 SLT GoTo ... And it is set up on AltAz mount...well if you have the money ready go and buy it...believe me i also needed a good and powerful telescope which i can put in my trunk-safely of course even though he is maksutov you still want to take some care for it

So the scope arrieved...it has a laser star finder...and i knew it...so i have opened put 8 AA baterries and adjust the laser star finder on a tree of course in daytime first time i needed 15 minutes to assemble it...now i need only 5 minutes...and it is still driving in my car about the power for the mount and goto...just go to car spare part store...buy 7Amph lead acid battery,a charger for battery,electricity cable and 12v cogarette lighter socket...putting it all together is very easy you really cannot work it with batteries...but it's nice feature if you lost a power somehow hmm i dont know how all of that for 50$ an every night you have power for full 6 hours of fun hope you will make up your mind

[nightfisher]

Hi and welcome, the skywatcher skymax is a very good telescope, it works very well on the AZ4 mount, this is very stable, and generally portable, the 127 is best at Lunar and planets, but its still okay for some deep sky objects, if you choose this option, you would also consider a couple of better quality eyepieces, as the bundled ones are not so good, but maksutov scopes are very tolerant of eyepiece`s

[umadog]

I read dobsonians are more for DeepSky than for solar system, so I sorted them out already, or am I wrong there? Or would Neptune be considered as DeepSky already?

I know this is said a lot, but over time I've come to the conclusion that it's not really true. Partly it's an over-simplification and partly it's based on the fact that the original Dobsonians didn't have very good optics and so people didn't observe planets with them. They were also not driven. I've not looked through vast numbers of scopes but I've looked through a fair number. I've observed through large Dobs which give nasty planetary views and I've observed through large Dobs that give stunning planetary views. In fact, to date, the best planetary views I've had have been through Dobs. I've had limited experience with smaller catadioptrics but so far I found they don't keep up. I have a friend who bought a $$$$ 4 refractor for planetary and found his 8" Dob gave more detail and cost a fraction of the price. The refractor has tracking, though, and that's very nice indeed if you are using higher power.

Remember that optical quality and aperture matter. They matter for DSOs and they matter for planets. A scope with good optics and a generous aperture performs well on everything. Because planets are relatively bright, you can get away with a smaller aperture than on DSOs. That is totally true. But it's also true that adding more aperture will improve the planetary views. We've done side-by-side comparisons on occasion at the club, so I have good reasons for saying that.

If you are observing planets then you'll be at higher powers and tracking is a very good thing to have. Equatorial mounts track but they're heavy. If you want portability then that's bad. I know I said goto is a waste of time if you don't need it, but if you're observing planets then you don't be slewing around the sky a lot and the GoTo scope will track for you. So that's a thumbs up. You can track by hand quite happily on a Dob at 200x and 300x. Maybe more. But having tracking built in is way, way, nicer. It's possible to purchase a tracking platform for a Dob. They're not cheap but they work. You can also build your own if you're handy. This way you get an alt/az scope that tracks and no bulky EQ head. The low COG of the Dob makes it very stable without the need for a bulky tripod.

[neptulix]

Hmm... I don't know. I look at Dobs in the major German dealer websites now, but I only find 1 single one within my frame of weight (max. 10 kg / 22 lbs), price (max 600 €) and max. magnification (at least 200), and that's the Orion Dobson 100/400 SkyScanner.

Now I rather feel confused...

That can't be better than the 127 Mak, is it?

Edit: I'm asbolutely useless with any DIY stuff

[nightfisher]

Maks are top planet scopes

[umadog]

You're understanding things correctly. That little Dob isn't likely to outperform the Maks you mention. What I was getting at is that there's little inherent to the Dobsonian design that makes it a bad planetary scope. They can be very good indeed on planets and, dollar for dollar, can outperform other designs. However, with your constraints (which are reasonable constraints) you're unlikely to get a Dob that will do better than the Mak. The only exception is that travel scopes I mentioned above. There you can have a 10" Dob that weighs 10 kg and fits under an airplane seat. That will certainly outperform the Mak. However, it'll set you back about 1200 Euros and won't have tracking. That's rather a lot for a first telescope. You are probably best off with the Mak. What you'd gain with a 10" Dob over a 5" Mak is a brighter image. That does matter on planets when you go to higher power. The eye will pick out colours better with the larger aperture. For example, the purple streaks on Jupiter's equator come out much better with a larger scope.

[faulksy]

the bigger the aperature the more light gavering so the brighter the object dso wise, not as inportant for planets but there again the bigger the aperature genrally the more magnification you can use. also that scope will be fast gathering light than the mak so you need better eye pieces/ more expensive

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Neptulix, I have a 127 Mak from Celestron - yes alot of people say that aperture is king, as said before larger aperture gives you a brighter image - this allows you to increase magnification - but I find that the 127mm mak is a fantastic planetary scope - if you buy one - be careful with the tripod - the plastic spreaders which hold the tripod when the legs are opened is delicate - I broke mine - replaced with chain - seems ok but not ideal. The eyepiece end rotates, so if you want to mount the tube assembly on an EQ mount its fine but I've found that moving the scope to different parts of the sky, you have to rotate the eyepiece, if your not careful the threads holding the star diagonal cut into the barrel and after a little time grooves appear - a little messy.

The accuracy of the GOTO is exellent.

The mount it came with is more than capable to carry the scope so long as you don't add heavy accessories to the scope its fine.

Optically the scope - for such a small aperture - is amazing - I've owned a number of scopes with much larger aperture than the 127 and found the planetary images to be excellent.

Alot of people who come into the hobby expect that, with larger apertures, you get larger planetary images - THIS IS NOT TRUE - yes - certainly the images are brighter so you can increase magnification - there is a little increase in size - but people tend to find that smaller apertures will out perform on more nights due to the atmospheric turbulence - so larger apertures can't reach there true potential - better images are found on more nights with a smaller scope.

Hope that helps. Paul.

[neptulix]

Wow, yeah that really helps.

Just, I am still indecisive about the mount.

GoTo or not GoTo? Maybe I want to find the stars and planets all by myself... instead of pressing some buttons.

Maybe I do want exactly that though sometimes, I don't know.

If I go separately, for the scope + the Az3 stand (if that one is enough), I'm at 360 Euro vs. 425 Euro with Az4 Aluminium.

Vixen Porta 2 is alone 327, I'd rule that one out at the moment.

Bundled, I could get the GoTo versions around 450-470 Euros.

I just wonder if I really want that GoTo stuff. But if it's a better mount than the Az3 or Az4, then I'm going for the GoTo.

[Northern Soul man]

GOTO or not GOTO that is another question. Many gazers on here love GOTO and others don't. It becomes a little tricky when using star maps to find your way around the night sky ideally you would also have to buy a Right Angled Correct Image (RACI) finder scope and a good set of star maps if you want to find your way around the sky and depending on how much light pollution you have where you observe from because some of the objects are very faint and with light pollution they become "invisible" so you could have the object in your field of view and not see it.

Another option would be a red dot finder (like a Telrad or similar) once lined up with the main scope it projects a red dot onto the sky to show where the main scope is pointing. If you browse the internet you can find star maps with the position of the telrad relative to each object. This is a link to one site - http://www.solarius.net/Pages/Articles/dbArticle.aspx?artid=messier_finders

The accuracy of thes GOTO mounts is very good and once set up you can easily move from one object to another so instead of spending time (which a lot of people enjoy) searching for an object - just enter into the handset and the scope moves to it, but using maps helps you learn the night sky. Paul.

[GazK]

Avoid the AZ3, the pivot isnt in line with the centre of gravity of the scope and so adjustments will be difficult. The AZ4 may cost a little more but the movement is lovely. You will be able to track planets by hand no problem.

[neptulix]

Alright, I think I am getting the 127 Mak with GoTo then, since the Az4 is not a lot cheaper.

Now I just have to save some more money, then I can hopefully buy one soon

Will come back here about eyepieces and filters etc once I have it!

Thanks!

[neptulix]

Oh dear, now someone else made me confused again.

He said I should better get a Newton like Celestron NexStar 130 SLT.

I was confused because I was earlier told that one should look after focal length when planets are of interest....

Just quickly asked, is he kind of right with that suggestion, or should I stay on the path with the Mak that I was on before?

Just noticed, that is 53 cm long, which takes away more space in luggage. Hmm.

[earth titan]

Not easy to buy the right scope. They are all a compromise. If you buy a mak, they are brilliant for planets but I have a sneaky feeling you will want to point it to DSOs at some stage, as there are times when there are no planets or moon in the sky. A mak is limited for DSOs.

Value for money and flexibility, I would personally go for a Newtonian, as big as you can afford. Go for an EQ mount or a dob (both are fine for planets) and I would avoid goto - spend the money on the optics.

Something like a Skywatcher 150p on an eq3/2 mount would be a good start. Or the Skywatcher 200p dobsonian - bigger mirror and even simpler to use.

But above all, don't get paralysed by choice. If you have a passion and no scope, this is more frustrating than buying the wrong scope.

Typed by me, using fumms...

[CSM]

I suggest that you take your time before you make any decisions. I would imagine that light pollution is going to be an issue in Berlin so you might like to look at my web site, garden astronomy, which tries to deal with this even if it is UK orientated, but which I am pleased to say others are finding useful.

[Dreamweaver]

Hi there,

I'm completely new to stargazing. It has taken me by surprise and is growing like a raging fire!

I have just discovered this Stargazer Lounge and not sure if I have posted this correctly or even in the right section!

Thought I would share with whoever is out there.

I have always enjoyed looking at the night sky since a young lad and had a pair of binoculars from the age of 14. I spent all my holiday money on them only to have them dropped onto a hard surface by a relation some years later who never got them fixed or even apologised so that was the end of that. However I have recently bought a nice pair of Helios 10x50 bins. I get them out as often as I can weather permitting and learn as mush as I can about where things are in the night sky.

I got into stargazing through a cheepie telescope belonging to a friend who unfortunately is not that interested anymore - but it certainly opened my eyes very wide indeed as to the riches to be found in the night sky! I have now ended up buying a Sky Watcher 90mm Mak on an EQ1 mount for around £170 from a shop in London (very helpful staff).

From my location in south east London there is of course a lot of light pollution but notwithstanding that I have managed to locate and view Saturn (superb views of the rings!), Jupiter with some basic detail of the bandings and maybe the dark bit which I think is a storm?! I have also observed Mars and Venus, although apart from seeing subtle dark patches on Mars I have not yet been able to discern the polar cap.

I have viewed M3, M11, M13 and M31 Andromeda galaxy but to get a better view of everything I I have to drive out to north Kent for darker skies whenever I can and weather permitting. I know the bigger the aperture the more light grasp and therefore better for deep sky objects so, as DSO appears to be my particular Interest at the moment, I am wondering what would be the next sensible upgrade from the 90-mm Mak?

I have observed from dark skies in an area between Oxford and Swindon within the last week that had the best dark sky I have encountered to date. The above mentioned he DSOs were much better but I still feel that the 90mm Mak falls short of what I am looking for.

I have seen reviews on SW120 StarTravel, the SW120 Evostar, Skymax 127 and the Skymax 150. Which are all within my price range at the present time.

I understand the concept of long and short focal length and the associated issues surrounding pushing up magnification on faster scopes but at the end of the day I want to have a telescope that will be able to resolve a reasonable amount of detail when observing star and globular clusters especially. I like to observe planets too but I seem to get more pleasure out of observing DSO as they are so far away.

I have purchased an adjustable astronomers chair which is truly amazing and I totally recommend this to everyone who wants to get the most out of their observing sessions. I have also adapted a hood that completely blocks out all light (like old time photographers) and doubles as a guard against those horrid mossies that buzz past your ears!

I have never viewed through a Dob and to be honest I think I prefer the idea of refractors and/or compact scopes for ease of transportation and less fiddling around with collimation etc, however I remain open minded and if Dobs are the way to go then I will consider them accordingly.

Would appreciate any thoughts on a single telescope (if there is such a thing) that would be suitable to resolve DSO (so that they are not a dim fuzzy patch) as well as planetary viewing. Not into astrophotography, at least not for the immediate foreseeable future.

[Hex]

The AZ 4 is around 180 quid and will last a life time, I'm sure a goto will last you for quite a few years but IMHO does not represent as good value. Dobs certainly do deliver a far brighter target than a make, that's not always what you want, sometimes its too bright and not at all pleasant to view. Think carefully about buying a scope purely for planetary viewing, not much to view at the minute is there? True Jupiter will be nice a high in a few months and will make a fine target, more than be said for Mars this time round

Setnt from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2