How hard should it be to see the Whirlpool Galaxy?

[JT723]

I'm using my Skyliner 200p Dob.

On a nice clear night, with the light pollution levels around here, I have no trouble seeing clusters, such as M13 or the Wild Duck Cluster. Those are nice and clear. Other objects are fainter, but I can still see the Ring Nebula easily. However, that's partly because the stars I use as reference points are so close together, it's easy to narrow it down to within a small area.

Last time out, I was finally able to find the two Bodes Nebulae. Sure, they were faint shadows, but they were in the right place and they were the correct shapes.

However, after many many attempts I simply cannot seem to find the Whirlpool galaxy. Is there any chance that I'm looking in the right place, but just failing to see it? Or should I definitely be able to see it if I'm pointing in the right direction? It's surely not even fainter than Bode's Nebulae?

I've used various charts and Stellarium to find where I think it should be, to no avail. I've also spent hours just slowly searching that area between Alkaid and Canes Venatici. No luck. Eventually I give up and sit looking at La Superba for a while. BUT it's looking possibly clear tonight (jinxed it now ) and since after midnight it's technically my birthday, dammit I'm determined to find it tonight. Of course, I've been determined every previous time I've tried...

[pvaz]

M51 is a bit harder, there aren't that many bright stars around, but I would say it's almost as bright as M81/82. It's the only galaxy where I was able to see clear spiral structure with an 8" scope. It takes very skies and near perfect seeing to manage that with an 8".

[JT723]

Thanks for the reply. So it IS even fainter. That's annoying, but on the up-side, at least it means I've (probably) not just been totally incompetent in finding the right direction.

I shall keep on looking, but the combination of faintness and a lack of obvious reference objects are proving to be a pain.

[umadog]

yeah, I'd say M51 to fainter. Definitely fainter compared to M82. Right now it's fairly low in the sky, so it's not the easiest time to spot it. You may see only the core, so be on the look out for a fuzzy star with a slight halo rather than something obviously resembling M51 . Also, it's not very clear how dark your skies are from your description. The objects you list are some of the brighter DSOs and are visible even from very badly light polluted skies. So it's possible you would be able to see all the things you list yet not (or only just) be able to see M51.

[John]

M51 is harder to find and fainter than M81 / M82. When you do come across it, the view is like two faint, fuzzy "eyes" peering back at you, with one larger than the other. I've seen the spiral structure in this object with a 12" scope under dark skies. From my moderately light polluted back garden I can't quite get this with my 10" newtonian although the galactic halo around the core of M51 is quite extended under the best conditions at home. There was a supernova in this galaxy in last Summer that I was able to see with 10" and 6" scopes - I think that peaked around mag 12.7 (SN211dh).

[brantuk]

Yup M51 is very faint - even when you see it you will need averted vision to make out any sort of shape. It's a smudge that has eluded me for five years - never actually found it for myself despite having seen it loads of times in other folks scopes when they've found it for me first - don't tell anyone though - they don't know yet lol.

It's best viewed from a very dark site - ligth pollution and/or moon glow will wash it out mostly - get it when it's high in the sky so you're looking through least atmosphere - and pick a very clear night with good transparency. Averted vision is where you look to the side of it and try to catch the object light on the rod cells in side of your eye which are tuned for seeing in black and white. Ensure your eyes are dark adapted for 20 mins first. HTH

[tich]

The first time I saw M51 was at SGL7 in march & I could make out the arcs when viewing it with my 200P However since viewing it at home all I've seen are two faint fuzzies with no structure at all.

[Black Knight]

I've seen it using my original 200p from my semi-suburban location, but it really was just a faint fuzzy. M81 and M82 looked much better really, to my eyes at least!

[JT723]

Thanks everybody. In all honesty I don't think I'm likely to see it where I live. M81/M82 were very difficult to find last time - tonight I could only manage to just about find one of them, but not even clearly enough to tell which one. Absolutely no chance with the whirlpool.

I noticed the averted vision thing myself, while looking at the ring nebula - it's a lot clearer when you don't look directly at it - but I never knew why before, so thanks for that. I always enjoy an impromptu science lesson

As far as tonight went, at least I still managed to see a bunch of stuff before the clouds came over, and tonight was the first night that Andromeda was high enough to be visible over the fence since I got my scope, having previously only seen it through binoculars, so that was nice.

[jabberwocky]

i found it at SGL 7 with my 130m but cant find it with my 200p at home, guess its a combination of LP and the time of the year, im leaving it until later in the year

[Pete Presland]

i have always found it very tricky from my back garden

[Bluey]

Like Jabberwocky said, this time of year it will very difficult I think, wait until the nights are darker and the view should improve, and finding may become slightly easier.

[euphony]

I've not managed this yet from my back garden, and it's not in such a position that I haven't got a hope in hell until next year now!

Interesting to read the responses on here, most helpful

[swamp thing]

Hi

Have you any bins?

These can really work through LP and deliver where scopes fail. The bins, by giving you such a large field seem to pick out large low surface brightness objects easier. I've picked out M101 through my 15x70,s quite easily from sites where my 10" Dob has really struggled to make it out.

[estwing]

i bagged this from my darkish sky location. the spirals were clearly visable,a joy to see but back home....nothing,not a chance!!!