Going for Televue NP101is APO (instead of SW Equinox ED 120)

[saptharishi]

Hi, I originally planned to buy Equinox ED120 and was talking with Skywatcher India to place an order. They are not too very interested in make a sale happen in spite of my willingness to wait for 90 days for order fulfillment. They said Equinox ED 120 is made to order. I thought it is generally available. I checked with a few other suppliers and most of them didn't have it in stock. Finally Oceanside Photo & Telescope, USA offered international shipping and had Televue NP101is APO in stock. So I have placed an order.

Not sure if that is a right decision. Going by the reviews Televue NP101is APO is definitely as good as SW Equinox 120ED. I am losing the extra 20mm of aperture in spite of paying more. This is my first scope.

May be my dream of owning 120mm scope will have to wait. Your thoughts please.

Regards,

Umasuthan

[Capricorn]

I wouldn't have thought they were made to order, fairly standard scope. However they may have to be ordered for you and get sent out from the importer. They may also need to order one in also.

Did you not consider the William Optics Megrez 120, think it the same objective and so fundimentally the same but in the WO packaging. Suspect you could also have ordered from the WO site direct.

The TV is however a very good scope.

[Merlin66]

I use the original TV Genesis 4" f5. For the past 20 years it has never failed to impress me. If you get similar performance from the newer NP101 they you will be very happy.

[saptharishi]

Probably right. Since Equinox 120ED is a great scope for its price they get sold quickly and may be there are too many backlogs to fulfill. I didn’t know William Optics also uses the same optics as SW Equinox. Thanks for the info. I think will go with NP 101is for now and plan for atriplet or a 12" reflector at a later point of time.

[saptharishi]

I hope the NP 101is performas as good as TV Genesis 4". I am so encouraged to hear that you have been using it for 20 years without and happy with it. I am wondering if NP 101is will be perform equally well for viewing deep sky objects (given the 100 mm aperture size)

[John]

On deep sky objects the 120mm will show more than the 101mm (apart from the FoV where the 101 will be larger of course) - there is no substitute for aperture on DSO's. I have a Vixen ED102 which is similar in some ways (apart from being F/6.5 rather than F/5.4 and not a Petzval design) to the TV 101. Nice scope though the Vixen is, my Skywatcher ED120 pro does show deep sky objects better and a bit more planetary detail.

There are other reasons to own a Tele Vue refractor though - they are superbly made things and will last a lifetime so I'm in no way doing them down by what I've said above - I'd love to own one but, having 4 scopes already including 3 refractors, I don't think I could justify it to my wife !

[Merlin66]

I'm sure it will work fine for visual....using it as an imaging lens (with a suitable cooled CCD camera) will even be better!

[Sirius Bizness]

Hi Umasuthan,

Are you interested in visual or imaging? I would have the TeleVue any day over my Equinox 120 as I have read good things about the optics on the TeleVue. I am more interested in AP though. Out of interest, what is the price difference on the two scopes from where you are? The TeleVue is double the cost of the Equinox here in the UK. If you want the Equinox 120 so much we could swap (just have to work out how to safely ship!)

Check out this members AP work using the TeleVue NP101is I have just seen in the deep sky imaging section - http://www.astronomie.be/pieter.vandevelde/home.htm. I think it shows what the scope is capable of. Cant imagine you will be dissapointed.

Martin

[andrew63]

I would also take the TV over an Equinox, even though it would be for visual - o for those crisp wide expanses...

andrew

[E621Keith]

Hi Umasuthan,

Are you interested in visual or imaging? I would have the TeleVue any day over my Equinox 120 as I have read good things about the optics on the TeleVue. I am more interested in AP though.

...

AP - Astro-Physics ? The one with an 8 years waiting list.

[Zakalwe]

I should hope that the Televue is a lot better...the TV is £3700 here, the Equinox 120 is £1350. Is the TV 3 times better than the Equinox?

[Sirius Bizness]

can't imagine it being 3x better!

AP - Astro Photography. Lets not even talk Astro-Physics

[saptharishi]

Martin: I wish i had been in Derby rather than Bangalore . Definitely i would have exchanged the 'yet to be received' TV for your Equinox at least for a few weeks . I still envy you for the 20% extra aperture that you have on your scope. It costs USD5000 (Equinox costs UDS1900). I almost decided that I will stretch further to buy NP127is (to match Equnox), but decided against it as I don't want to invest so much on my first scope itself. Thanks so much for sharing the link. after see those image taken from NP101is, I am happier .

Keith: AP (as in your dictionary :smiley: ) is the 'Holy Grail'. That is a lifetime project.

I wish it had been 3x better than Equinox, but reality is diferent

I want to use it for visual to start with, but I am getting motivated to get into Astro Photography (see the pics on the forums). May be an year later.

[DirkSteele]

Despite the smaller objective size, the Televue NP101 blows almost any other scope in its aperture class out of the water in image quality. The colour correction as well as second and third order correction (spherical aberration, astigmatism etc) will be far superior to anything the Skywatcher has, thanks to the two groupings of 2 elements inherient in the Nagler-Petzval design of the NP101. I think you have made an excellent, if albeit, expensive, choice.

Clear skies

[John]

Despite the smaller objective size, the Televue NP101 blows almost any other scope in its aperture class out of the water in image quality. The colour correction as well as second and third order correction (spherical aberration, astigmatism etc) will be far superior to anything the Skywatcher has, thanks to the two groupings of 2 elements inherient in the Nagler-Petzval design of the NP101. I think you have made an excellent, if albeit, expensive, choice.

Clear skies

I've no doubt that the TV NP101 is a superb instrument but there are some great 4" class refractors available now at less than 1/3rd of the cost of the Tele Vue. Does "blowing out of the water" mean that the NP101 delivers performance gains commensurate with the price difference ?

I've read reports from respected reviewers for example that the Tele Vue 102 refractor is superior to a Skywatcher ED100 but those differences are subtle rather than marked.

I'm just trying to quantify the differences as the OP is new to scope ownership and the investment is not insubstantial. He still has to mount the scope and equip it with suitable eyepieces and other accessories as well of course.

[Zakalwe]

I guess that it will be a case of ever diminishing returns, once you get to that level.

I do know that comparing a £1300 piece of kit against a £3700 one is probably an unfair comparison.

However, I am sure that both will provide stunning views.

[DirkSteele]

I've no doubt that the TV NP101 is a superb instrument but there are some great 4" class refractors available now at less than 1/3rd of the cost of the Tele Vue. Does "blowing out of the water" mean that the NP101 delivers performance gains commensurate with the price difference ?

I've read reports from respected reviewers for example that the Tele Vue 102 refractor is superior to a Skywatcher ED100 but those differences are subtle rather than marked.

I'm just trying to quantify the differences as the OP is new to scope ownership and the investment is not insubstantial. He still has to mount the scope and equip it with suitable eyepieces and other accessories as well of course.

I think we are stumbling into the controversial subject of the cheaper made Chinese Apo refractors against the traditional "old guard" of Televue, AstroPhysics, TMB et al. Perhaps "blow out of the water" is a bit strong, but it will outperform, though I am sure we are all aware that there is very much diminishing returns as you move up the price scale, so much so that many observers would be unable to tell the difference. And your setup is only as good as the weakest element, which more often than not may well be atmospheric turbulence.

Saptharishi himself highlight the magnitude of the price increase, as did I, so he is not under any illusion of the financial commitment he has just made, but if he were to change his mind about embarking on this hobby we all love, the 2nd hand market for the NP101 is likely to find plenty of interested buyers.

[saptharishi]

I think all the points made by John and DirkSteele are valid. I definitely need to make plans for the accessories. I am planning to settle for a HEQ5 Pro (instead of NEQ6 Pro) and the minimal accessories to start with and add more as I move forward. Hope this plan works.

No doubt Equinox ED120 is great scope given its price. I think I have not framed the question properly. I wanted to know if I am losing majorly interms of planetary/Deep sky viewing compared to Equinox ED120.

Regards,

Umasuthan.

[ollypenrice]

Your TeleVue is so much better than the Equinox 120 that I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read that you are worried about your choice. The TeleVue is in a totally different world to the Equinox. Whoever told you that the Equinox is made to order is talking absolute nonesense. It is a mass produced budget scope coming out in huge numbers from a factory in China. Made to order? It is no more made to order than a Ford Fiesta. The Equinox is great value but it is a budget scope. The construction is crude. The focuser is a cheap Crayford and prone to slippage and misalignment. The optics are very good.

The TV is built to last several lifetimes. (I used a 20 year old Genesis till recently and when I sold it it was exactly like brand new. I still have an old TV Pronto and that is just the same.) The rack and pinion focuser will never slip or sag. The lens cell is collimatable. The optics are not excellent, they are exquisite, totally world class.

You lose a little aperture for visual but then again you gain field of view.

Now, imaging. The NP101 is F5.4. That is FAST. The Equinox is F7 and that is slow, maybe not slow in capital letters but still slow. In imaging F ratio is king. The TV will need exposures little more than half as long as the Equinox. Both the stunning mechanical quality of the engineering and the speed of the optics explain the difference in price. If you image with a DSLR, especially in a warm environment, you will bless that fast F ratio a thousand times a night. Making fast refractors is very expensive indeed. Making four element flatfield Petzvals, the best imaging refractors possible, is even more expensive. The Equinox is just a 2-element and needs a flattener at the rear anyway for imaging.

You have chosen a Mercedes over a Ford and you are worried? That's crazy. Smile, you made a great decision.

Olly

PS Here's what you can do with a 3.5 inch Petzval.

http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/i-WQXKB6Z/0/M/M45-COMPOSITE-FL-M.jpg

[saptharishi]

Hi Olly, Thanks so much for the details, reassuring comments and the link . You need to forgive me for coming up with these kinds of (silly) questions as I am new to this hobby. I am happy to know that I have so much to gain with NP101is (even if I lose a little aperture). I thought TV lens cell is non-collimatable.

Regards,

Umasuthan.

[ollypenrice]

Hi Olly, Thanks so much for the details, reassuring comments and the link . You need to forgive me for coming up with these kinds of (silly) questions as I am new to this hobby. I am happy to know that I have so much to gain with NP101is (even if I lose a little aperture). I thought TV lens cell is non-collimatable.

Regards,

Umasuthan.

If it is like my Genesis it is collimatable but TV disguise the fact to deter people form fiddling. The key point is that with a TV it can be repaired and adjusted if necessary. Don't touch it unless you drop the scope...and DON'T DO THAT!!!!!! If you have a problem you can telephone TeleVue and speak to an expert within a minute. Not many makers offer that service.

You have bought a dream telescope. Enjoy it. There is no better 4 inch refractor in the world.

Olly

[Mr_Simnock]

Just a quick note in defence of Sky Watcher scopes. Here is a review of a Televue 76 and a Sky Watcher Equinox 80. http://scopeviews.co.uk/TV76vsEq80.htm, it still comes to the conclusion that the TV is better but the margin isn't that big at all. It appears to be just that bit better in all departments than the SW 80, which isn't bad considering the price difference of the two. Judging them by looking at the photo's in the review (which is little to go off admittedly) I would say that the difference between them is minimal. Still if you can afford an NP101 I would go for it without a doubt.

[DirkSteele]

There is no such thing as a silly question. And a question is only easy if you know the answer already. Olly's reputation proceeds him, so you can be very confident in your selection.

Olly, that is an incredible picture!

Clear skies,

Matthew

[ollypenrice]

Just a quick note in defence of Sky Watcher scopes. Here is a review of a Televue 76 and a Sky Watcher Equinox 80. http://scopeviews.co.uk/TV76vsEq80.htm, it still comes to the conclusion that the TV is better but the margin isn't that big at all. It appears to be just that bit better in all departments than the SW 80, which isn't bad considering the price difference of the two. Judging them by looking at the photo's in the review (which is little to go off admittedly) I would say that the difference between them is minimal. Still if you can afford an NP101 I would go for it without a doubt.

You won't find me knocking SW scopes in general. They have succeeded in making inexpensive semi apos of remarkable optical quality and housing their optics in slightly 'wing and a prayer' mechanical systems which usually deliver, Crayford focusers excepted. But how about comparing the SW and TV in twenty years? The SW semi apôs are absolutely excellent and so is my Fiat Panda, but it is not a Mercedes and never will be.

You cannot meaningfully compare an ED doublet with a full-on Petval 4 element flatfield apo. They are worlds and worlds apart.

Olly

[E621Keith]

But how about comparing the SW and TV in twenty years? The SW semi apôs are absolutely excellent and so is my Fiat Panda, but it is not a Mercedes and never will be.

Toyota eventually gave rise to Lexus, so who says Synta won't create a premium division in twenty years time. With their shear volume of sales, I would not be surprise if Synta has an R&D budget larger than TV's.