Is there such a scope?

[Uhwaz]

The views you'd get would be pretty similar. As for imaging, you can do very basic AP with a 200p and motorised EQ5, but it's not ideal. But if it's going to double as a visual scope as well, then maybe it's not so bad.

I have this setup and its exactly as Black Knight says, You can do some AP but you need ideal conditions any wind gust and sub is ruined its very wobbly for imiging.

Its fine for visual tho.

If i knew what i know now i would pay more and got EQ6 strait away

[ollypenrice]

The imaging adds so much to the difficulty. If you remove that from the scene you could have a bigger Dob, properly mounted. (Dob mounts are great, really stable. Under-specified EQs are a real pain.) On this kind of budget you'd struggle to get even basic images and you'll be compromising your choice of visual scope.

There's one small error above. A faster F ratio scope does not give a brighter image at the eyepiece. The brightness of the image is governed by aperture and effective focal length - ie the FL of the scope and eyepiece combined. If you end up with the same effective focal length in a fast and a slow scope of the same aperture you get the same brightness. In the case of the Newtonian there will be a marginally brighter and more contrasty image in the slow scope because it will probaby have a smaller central obstruction.)

On a tight budget I would always buy second hand. I saved £2,500 on my TEC 140. It is absolutely as new.

Olly

[Ganymede12]

So, right now I'm looking at an Explorer 200P EQ5. I did some number crunching and I can stretch my budget it a bit to £500 (or less).

So, finale check, are there any scopes that would be better for me (considering my revised budget)?

Remember, I want:

• Good view of galaxy's and nebula
  
• Basic imaging (using a digital camera held to the eyepiece by a camera support)
  
• reasonable portability ( take it apart, carry it in a bag and re assemble it elsewhere)
  

P.S thanks for the help given so far!

[E621Keith]

So, right now I'm looking at an Explorer 200P EQ5. I did some number crunching and I can stretch my budget it a bit to £500 (or less).

So, finale check, are there any scopes that would be better for me (considering my revised budget)?

Remember, I want:

• Good view of galaxy's and nebula
  
• Basic imaging (using a digital camera held to the eyepiece by a camera support)
  
• reasonable portability ( take it apart, carry it in a bag and re assemble it elsewhere)
  

P.S thanks for the help given so far!

Based on your need, I'd go for a 150pds with EQ5. You lose some visual performance on DSO, but will gain mount stability for imaging and portability. I doubt you can carry the 200p without a car.

However, if you do have a car and don't plan on doing much DSO imaging, the 200p EQ5 will be fine, but it will be my second choice after the 150pds based on your new specifications.

[swamp thing]

1340567051[/url'>' post='1555327']

Remember, I want:

• Good view of galaxy's and nebula
  
• Basic imaging (using a digital camera held to the eyepiece by a camera support)
  
• reasonable portability ( take it apart, carry it in a bag and re assemble it elsewhere)
  

P.S thanks for the help given so far!

I think someone should point out that these three don't go together. You can have two out of the three but not three.

Good galaxy views requires aperture. This means a big scope.

Basic imaging requires an EQ mount (now you're going backwards from #1 point as your spending money on a mount that doesn't help with views and gets in the way visually).

Portability......no scope/set up that is capable of doing both the first two points is going to fit in a bag. A small imaging rig is reasonably portable but is very limited used visually (ie useless at point1). A large Dob is great visually, can be made portable, but can't do AP (ie useless at point 2).

You would be better separating the first two points else you'll end up with a compromised scope that wont be good at either. Pick one, then go with that for the time being.

For visual get the biggest Dob you can. For AP get the heaviest/best mount you can. That's my 2p,s worth.

[Uhwaz]

I think someone should point out that these three don't go together. You can have two out of the three but not three.

Good galaxy views requires aperture. This means a big scope.

Basic imaging requires an EQ mount (now you're going backwards from #1 point as your spending money on a mount that doesn't help with views and gets in the way visually).

Portability......no scope/set up that is capable of doing both the first two points is going to fit in a bag. A small imaging rig is reasonably portable but is very limited used visually (ie useless at point1). A large Dob is great visually, can be made portable, but can't do AP (ie useless at point 2).

You would be better separating the first two points else you'll end up with a compromised scope that wont be good at either. Pick one, then go with that for the time being.

For visual get the biggest Dob you can. For AP get the heaviest/best mount you can. That's my 2p,s worth.

You couldnt get any better answer then this

if you want to image with 500 budget forget about 200P ( while it is possible in long run you ll just get annoyed by throwing away 50% of your work trust me I know what I am talking about )

[Ganymede12]

Just wondering, why aren't large Newts good for imaging (as I said, nothing fancy just holding a digital camera to the eyepiece!)? Surely if there's a good image through the eyepiece then I'll get a good image on the scope. That's how it works with my current scope.

[Moonshane]

what are you looking to image? if just the moon then this should work OK. if planets then maybe at a push but to get decent images you need extremely high magnification and usually the seeing means only a video would capture clarity over a length of time shooting.

if you mean nebulae/galaxies or even bright things like globular clusters then I fear you won't get anything at all.

large fast newts are not bad for imaging per se, the hubble is a large fast newt, but they are so heavy (in imaging terms) that the mount cannot handle them unless you spend a lot more than your budget.

it is the mount and focal ratio/focal length that matters in imaging not the telescope - e.g. subject to adequate field of view and the same optical quality you could get the same results with an 80mm scope as you would with a 400mm scope but the mount required is substantially less expensive in the case of the former.

[RikM]

A 200P / EQ5 would be a nice visual set up and would allow you to take pictures of the moon and planets by holding the camera to the eyepiece or even better by using a little webcam with a 1.25" nosepiece and a laptop to do it. You can't take pictures of galaxies and nubulae by hand holding a compact camera to the eyepiece. You would struggle to lift that lot let alone carry it in a bag if you could even find a bag big enough!

I think you will struggle to find a scope that meets your needs within your budget. I started out with a 150P on a driven EQ3-2, a second hand DSLR and a remote timer. With the adaptors etc. that cost a little under £500. That was the best compromise I could find, but as Steve says above, it is quite a compromise and for the same money you could get a much better visual scope (200P Dob and some nice eyepices). An imaging set up for galaxies and nebulae will cost you quite a bit more than £500 (especially as you don't want to buy second hand!). You would also need a new camera I expect.

The best bet is to think about your priorities (visual OR imaging) and pick one or accept the compromises.

[E621Keith]

I would say there is no scope in any price range that will meet the new set of requirement.

1. Good visual DSO = large aperture, 6" or more

2. Good for imaging = heavy GEM

3. Portability by human/public transport - Less than 6" aperture or (may be 8" for SCT), tube length less than 0.8m, overall weight less than 25kg.

Requirement 1 and 3 are mutually exclusive. A 150pds will be the best compromise.

My uni's astrosoc has an AltAz mounted 8" Newt, it's always a 2 man job carrying it to the observing site 1 mile away from where it's stored. One guy carry the tube and another carry the mount. It is possible to carry both if you just consider the weight, but not possible for a single person if you consider the volume.

A compact camera eyepiece projection is possible for moon and planets, but not DSO. Even the brightest DSO will require several seconds exposure to even show up on the most sensitive sensor. It is simply not possible to handheld a camera for this.

[Andrew*]

I'm following this thread with fascination, because I have been in EXACTLY your situation. I had the same budget, was upgrading from my first scope and I was young. I wanted my next scope to do everything.

As it happens, I got a 200P and EQ5 . Together they cost about £300 second hand.

The scope I loved. It is a very versatile scope and can easily be used for visual and imaging once you have got to know it. I swore never to get rid of it!

The problem was the mount. While the EQ5 could handle the 200P quite well, the standard motorised version was quite frustrating to use, and I didn't anticipate the learning curve involved in using it properly - general setting up, balancing, power and worst of all, polar aligning. Until I was well-practised at setting it up, I would find it too long-winded and frustrating to set-up before the clouds came over.

I also thought I could take simple snaps with a digital camera on a support. Don't bother - it is too frustrating! I would think seriously about a mono long exposure webcam or DSLR at prime focus (not through an eyepiece.

The fact is, this set-up takes a lot of getting used to all at once, so I strongly advise you to take it one step at a time. I would suggest one of two options:

1. get the 200P on EQ5 and use it as a visual set-up for a while. Get to grips with collimating the scope and setting up the mount. You don't even need to bother with polar aligning - plonk it down roughly pointing north and use the slo-mo knobs for fine motion. When you're ready and have saved up, get the GOTO upgrade kit, or better still, an HEQ5 pro, and a proper camera and do imaging properly.

2. Get a 200mm dob and enjoy it visually. When you have saved up, get a HEQ5 pro and tube rings to mount the scope, or even get a seperate imaging set-up with an ED80 or similar.

I would personally say go for option 2. That will give you total flexibility, and time to decide whether you want to do imaging properly or not. Proper imaging means getting the biggest and best mount you can, so that it's future-proof for guiding. If you really just want to image the moon and planets in a very simple and limiting way, you can do that with a dob anyway. A dob also means portability and almost instant set-up. MUCH more rewarding.

Good luck!

Andrew

[Andrew*]

Oh, also, if your budget is fixed, I would strongly support buying second hand. 95% of my gear was purchased second-hand and I haven't had any problems with sellers that couldn't be resolved. The trick is just to talk to them. Send emails, ask questions, ask for photos. Even better get them on the phone. Best of all, meet them and collect the scope in person! If they are bogus or the condition of the scope is suspect, it will come out soon enough...

Andrew

[Ganymede12]

2. Get a 200mm dob and enjoy it visually. When you have saved up, get a HEQ5 pro and tube rings to mount the scope, or even get a seperate imaging set-up with an ED80 or similar.

Good luck!

Andrew

As it happens I was thinking of getting a Skyliner 200P dobsonian at first but realised that the mount would not track (being a dob mount) so that If I aimed my scope at anything other than polaris then the image would be out of the eyepiece before I had time to enjoy the view! A problem I first noticed whilst trying to image Saturn (getting Saturn to stay in view was a nightmare with the 10mm eyepiece and Barlow lens). So you think I should go back to saving up for a Skyliner 200P dobsonian?

If I get the right tube rings, could I fit it to an EQ2 mount?

[RikM]

If I get the right tube rings, could I fit it to an EQ2 mount?

No. Unfortunately it would be way too big and heavy.

The Skyliner 200P, at f/6 is even bigger - well longer - than the f/5 Explorer 200P. For visual use on an EQ mount it would probably just about go on an EQ5, if you wanted to use it for imaging then you would need an HEQ5 at minimum, and would have to put up with loosing quite a few subs to the shakes. The longer tube and longer focal length puts extra stress on the mount as well as the weight.

Visually, keeping things in the eyepiece with a Dobsonian very quickly becomes so natural you don't even think about it. As the object drifts across the view, you just gently nudge the scope in the right direction to follow it.

[Ganymede12]

Thanks. Skyliner 200P it is then! Thanks for the advice. Anything else I should know?

[Moonshane]

tracking is seriously not an issue. I once timed Jupiter across my field of view at 145x and using a plossl eyepiece (50 degree field) and it took about a minute to get from one side to the other. just move the target back to the right (in a newt) and you then watch for another minute ad infinitum. I can manually track at 300x with no problem and once you get used to it, you will too. sometimes people think you have to keep the target in the centre of field and constantly nudge. the position right, slow drift left technique makes it far easier and more relaxing.

budget for a red dot finder (unless you have one) and a right angle correct image finder will make life more comfy too.

[Ganymede12]

What are laser collimator and chesire collimator and should I get one to collimate the Skyliner 200P?

[Moonshane]

yes, you'll need a collimation tool - I'd suggest a Cheshire.

[RikM]

I agree. A Cheshire is just the job.

[Ganymede12]

Thank you very much for the help and I'm happy to say that I've decided, once and for all, that I will be saving up for the Skyliner 200P dobsonian! If there is anything else that you would like to mention then feel free to post your advice!

Thanks again!

[Moonshane]

you won't regret it, that's a fine scope.

[Ganymede12]

What's good is that Turn Left at Orion shows images through an 80mm scope (slightly larger than my current scope) and through a 200mm scope (which is what I'm upgrading to) so I already have a good idea of the improvement I'll see, and what an improvement it should be!

Any eyepieces that you think will work particularly well with the Skyliner 200P?

[nightfisher]

Nice to see a proper plan come together, now get saving for that 200p

[Ganymede12]

Nice to see a proper plan come together, now get saving for that 200p

I'm on it!

Ooh but there is that light pollution filter that looks like it will come in handy - with both scopes. (I have mentioned the filter in another thread ,this is the one I'm thinking of getting http://www.scopesnsk...erinchlpr .html)

Should I get the filter first?

[RikM]

To be honest, I would say you should get the new scope and some eyepieces first. The differences you see in images when using filters are really dramatic. Visually, I very often don't even see any difference with the 'light pollution' type filter. That is the exact one I have.

BST Explorer eyepieces have a good reputation, as does Alan at Sky's the Limit ebay shop. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-25-8mm-BST-Explorer-Dual-ED-eyepiece-Branded-Starguider-/380442163173?pt=UK_Telescope_Eyepieces&hash=item58941eb7e5#ht_3942wt_1255