Second telescope advice

[Tim Armes]

Hi,

I'm a happy owner of a 200mm Meade dob.

However, my young kids are often asking to look at the planets, and the Dob isn't really idea for a number of reasons:

1) I can't just quickly get it out and use it since it really needs to be left outside for a good while first

2) Since it doesn't follow the sky the objects pass too quickly for them to see anything

3) They tend to jog it and knock the object out of view

So, while I'm going to keep it for my own deep sky viewing, I'm thinking of getting another scope for planetary objects. It should have a decent EQ mount, preferable motorized, be nice and portable and quick to set up. I'm not interested in GoTo because I enjoy the chase.

I don't really follow gear advancements so I don't know where to start or which makes are worth looking at. Can anywise please suggest a decent scope that meets the bill? I'd rather pay to buy something of quality that'll last me a good while, but I'm not looking to break the bank either.

Thanks,

Tim

[Qualia]

Maybe I'm being a bit biased by the suggestion, but for ease of set up, no cool down needed, no collimation, defraction spikes and only a little CA on the brightest of objects like Venus (which can always be tempered with a gentle yellow filter, I imagine) have you thought about a refractor? At a good price and probably some of the best optics on the market within and easily over its price range, I'd suggest the Tal 100rs: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/tal/tal-100rs-refractor-optical-tube-assembly.html. I have to date read nothing bad about them and for about €250 or pounds, I can't see where you can go wrong.

[Saleratus]

It won't solve all your problems, but have your considered upgrading your dob by getting an equatorial platform for it to rest on. This would allow it to track the sky. You'll still have to teach your kids not to bump the scope, but I didn't have much trouble with this with my children. Regarding cool down time, I used to put my dob's OTA out under a cover and shielded from the sun on evenings that looked as though they might be good, then you can set up quickly as the mirror is already cool when you start.

I'm afraid that you will not really find a good solution for your children by looking at small refractors. You won't see much, and they could quickly lose interest. Also, to mount them properly really costs money. Getting an equatorial platform would be an upgrade that would benefit you as well as the kids. You might also find that even with the mirror fresh from your warm house, you'll still see a better view in the 200mm dob than in a small refractor because the large aperture will still show more despite the cooling problems.

I believe the best equatorial platforms are at equatorialplatforms.com (that's what I use), but there are less expensive options also.

[NGC 1502]

Hi Tim, there are lots of options for this. Not sure of your price point, but this one could tick most of the boxes perhaps -

http://www.firstligh...150p-eq3-2.html

It's the Skywatcher 150p on the EQ3-2 mount for £290. This one is the standard non go-to version, and FLO do a basic RA motor for £79.

Hope you find something suitable, Ed.

Edit - here's a link for the RA motor - http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/single-axis-dc-motor-drive-for-eq3-2.html

[Luke]

If it was me and the scope was very much for planets, depending on budget I would probably look at a Celeston C6 SCT (which I have, very nice on planets, not bad on DSO's from dark skies) or Skywatcher Skymax 127 (I have not tried one myself).

For me 120 mm-ish provides decent aperture for planets. I do sometimes look at planets with a 100mm refractor, which gives lovely small but razor sharp views and I feel I would like ideally just that little bit more aperture. But that said the refractor cool down time is so fast and the scope is a joy to use!

Is there a particular reason why you want an EQ mount rather than Alt-Az?

[Tim Armes]

Thanks for your replies, there's food for thought there.

Will - I'd not considered an equatorial platform for the dob. On any case having now discovered them I'll certainly be looking at that option for myself - looks like a fun DIY project too!

Luke - it's a good question concerning the EQ mount rather than an Alt-Az. I suppose I just like the mechanical beauty and general cleverness of the EQ design. Also, I tend to associate Alt-Az with GoTo scopes, although it's clearly possible to get a motorized one without the rest of the electronics that take the fun away For a given price would I get a much better scope with one type of mount over the other?

[brantuk]

You can get a half decent second hand EQ5 or CG5 mount for around £100 (depending on age/condition). Add an RA motor for tracking (around £75 new) and pop a small Mak on it (127mm or 150mm) for around £200 and you'l have a great combination that will be very stable with the kids. The long focal length will give great views of the planets and the motor will track for a good half hour without any noticeable drift. You can also use Baader solar film to view the sun in daytime or add a webcam for first attempts at planetary imaging.

You'll need to polar align though so - whilst easy enough - it'll take a little longer to set up than the dob. But it will take most of the smaller ota's 6" or under. The alt/az tripods/mounts that go with the smaller ota's tend to be a bit flimsy. HTH

[ollypenrice]

Hi Tim, I'm in SE France as well. (I live north of Sisteron and have an astronomy Gite in Etoile St Cyrice.) If you are reasonably near then I could show you a number of scopes at the moment, some on test and some our own. I have refractors of 85, 102, 130, 140 and 150mm but not all are ours, alas!) I don't sell kit, by the way!

I'd also consider a Maksutov for the planets, compact and very very sharp. I don't have one of those but I have a 10 inch SCT. A Mak on an HEQ5 or NEQ6 would do the job well.

I know you are not fussed about GoTo but a tracking fork or arm-mounted Mak or SCT in Alt Az is about the most comfortable way to view visually because there is no great change in EP height or orientation. I no longer have one here but I found this great with children and beginners in visual use.

PM me if you'd care to call round.

Olly

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

An HEQ5 or EQ6 is rather a handful to set up (unless you like your weight training). I would opt for a much lighter mount. My 8" SCT sits happily on a Great Polaris mount, which is roughly the equivalent of an EQ5. The C8 OTA weighs only 4.7 kg, and the C6 OTA only 3 (the Skymax 150 OTA is heavier than the C8). Something like a 127 mak or 6" SCT can be sat on an EQ3 mount for visual without problems. Regarding cool down: the 6" should be OK in 20-30 min, and if you store the OTA in an unheated space (as I do) much less is needed. With an RA motor and web-cam you could even have a bash at planetary imaging.

[umadog]

If you're worried about cooling time then you probably want to avoid Cats and their ilk, as those designs have a reputation for having very unstable images when far from ambient. Does your scope have a fan? If not, add one and it will cool much faster. Also, have you tried using your scope when it's not cooled down? Unless I'm explicitly going for planets and nothing else, I don't wait for mine to cool down and the low power views are perfectly acceptable. One can slowly go for higher-power objects as cool-down progresses. With an 8" and a fan that could be pretty soon, say half an hour or so but YMMV. Regardless, you can get observing right away.

The equatorial platform idea is a good one. With tracking you will see more planetary detail and you won't need to keep pushing it along for the kids. I go observing with small children sometimes, and I've found that they soon learn not to touch and jog the scope. Teaching them to do this is cheaper than buy new gear

[LukeSkywatcher]

I know you are not fussed about GoTo but a tracking fork or arm-mounted Mak or SCT in Alt Az is about the most comfortable way to view visually because there is no great change in EP height or orientation. I no longer have one here but I found this great with children and beginners in visual use.

Very true. I am in a wheelchair and my head height is about the same as a 9-10 yr old kid. I have an 8SE and it is brilliant for me because of the very reason mentioned. The EP height changes VERY little between observing low down or high up at zenith. Its very comfortable viewing.

How about buying the kids a nice 4SE. I'm guessing it wont break the bank and it will track the planets for the kids.

Paul.

*Edit*

I see you are concerned about cooling down time. I wouldnt think the 4SE would take a LONG time but it is not a "grab n go" scope in that respect.

How is the SLT 127 for cooling down?.

Probably not much better then the 4SE.

For zero cooling time the best choice is a small refractor. They dont come cheap though unless its something like the Celestron Travelscope 70. They are widefield scopes though so pretty useless for observing the planets. Its not even on an EQ mount. Its an Alt-Az.

[ollypenrice]

Luke - it's a good question concerning the EQ mount rather than an Alt-Az. I suppose I just like the mechanical beauty and general cleverness of the EQ design. Also, I tend to associate Alt-Az with GoTo scopes, although it's clearly possible to get a motorized one without the rest of the electronics that take the fun away

Actually it may not be. An Alt Az will only track with the aid of a computer to calculate how much movement is needed, and in which direction, to simulate an equatorial track. I don't know of any computerized alt az tracking mounts without Go To, though you don't have to use the Go To.

Olly

[Hobbes]

How about a Tal 100RS on a driven EQ5 Mount? It should complement your Dob nicely and give great planetary views.

I find the EQ5 quick to setup and align with the polar scope and I have found it tracks fine for visual - 30-60 mins without losing the target.

They seem to come up for sale second hand quite frequently.

I have read great things about the Tal and it is on my shopping list.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I do not even align with my polar scope for visual. I have just set the latitude to 53 deg, point the leg labelled "N" north, and level the mount with the spirit level. Good enough for visual. I only align with the polar scope when I want to do planetary imaging

[StarryBob]

One of these is a nice easy set up for visual and is light and portable too

[cantab]

I don't know of any computerized alt az tracking mounts without Go To

To my understanding the Skywatcher "Auto" telescopes are on such mounts. I admit I don't actually know what would make such a thing cheaper than a full GoTo setup - maybe just less precision needed, or less movement speed.

[Tim Armes]

Hi all,

Thank you all for your replies. I thought I'd receive email notifications to this thread, but alas I did not and so i hadn't noticed all your good advice come through.

I'm still considering my options for a second scope. I've also started looking at building myself a equatorial platform; that looks like fun

Tim