Orion Optics 12 " Dob

[vlebo]

I may get myself a OO 12" dob http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/VX/vx12.html as the smaller size and portability is something that appeals to me.The problem is the price of the OO with optics upgrade ,10:1 focuser and dob mount puts it into Flextube 16" money. Does anyone have any experience with the OO dob and is it really worth the extra money (quite a large amount) over the Flextube or should I stick with the Flextube 12 or possibly try for the 14" which still comes in a good £400 cheaper than the OO 12"?

Thanks in advance

Vlebo

[scarp15]

I looked at this option to, at F4 you will need to factor in the cost for a televue paracorr, the short tube should though fit across a back seat and mechanically and optically will be very nice. I opted for a flextube manual and will see how I feel about it with my eyepieces in terms of coma. The cost of the OOUK as new was too much for me, the cost of the flextube meant that I had a bit spare to spend on upgrading the focuser.

[Frank the Troll]

Are you intending to do some AP with this? and would you be able to track?

If not AP, then consider the SW and LB versions

P.s personally, I'm bias towards Orions

[Moonshane]

as much as I love OOUK scopes (I have a 16" f4, 6" f11 and a 6" f5, I previously had a 6" f6 and a 12" f5.3) I'd never buy new as the price is just too high for my tastes.

given the choice at the same price of 12" or 16" of aperture, I'd go for the latter. I'd then set about making a OOUK type dob base like this one (in my case, I bought the optics, rings and tube and then built the side bearings and base) http://stargazerslounge.com/showpost.php?p=1902655&postcount=288

there's a massive difference between 12" and 16" of aperture, even at a light polluted site like mine.

[Adrian Condon]

Hi Vleb,

I have a 10" SPX Orion Optics f6.3 1/10 wave scope on an OO dob mount.

The optics are brilliant, the scope build is ok.

The views with a Televue Nagler Type 6 7mm eyepiece are wow.... (comments from other SGL members at SGL 6 and 7 were very encouraging)

The scope is transportable (just).

I would imagine that a 12" with 1/10 wave optics would be superb, but f4 may present focussing problems and the scope would need to be collimated more often.

If you want excellent optics then OO are definitely worth looking at.

Cheers

Adrian

[Frank the Troll]

as much as I love OOUK scopes (I have a 16" f4, 6" f11 and a 6" f5, I previously had a 6" f6 and a 12" f5.3) I'd never buy new as the price is just too high for my tastes.

given the choice at the same price of 12" or 16" of aperture, I'd go for the latter. I'd then set about making a OOUK type dob base like this one (in my case, I bought the optics, rings and tube and then built the side bearings and base) http://stargazerslounge.com/showpost.php?p=1902655&postcount=288

there's a massive difference between 12" and 16" of aperture, even at a light polluted site like mine.

Im currently building a 10" f4.7 dob using an Orion mirror set (2nd hand)

Cant afford the price of new OO kit. Which is a shame as I would rather choose OO over other makes, so I will have to stick to 2nd hand OO kit

[John]

I have an OO 10" F/4.8 and agree with the other posters comments re: the optical and mechanical qualities of these scopes. The optical tube that I have would cost around £650 now (unmounted) which to me would be too much. I bought mine used though which brings me to:

.... so I will have to stick to 2nd hand OO kit

Fortunately (or unfortunately if you have just invested in a new one ) the used price of OO scopes is much more reasonable which makes their fine optical qualities affordable

One of the really good things about OO scopes though is that they come in a wider range of "flavours" than the chinese ones with interesting options such as relatively slow newtonians with small obstructions being readily available as Adrian and Shane know well.

I often wish the chinese 10" newts were not only available in "one size only" at F/4.7 as it does create a whole raft of collimation, coma and eyepiece quality issues for purchasers to grapple with. A decent, affordable 10" F/6 dob would be highly desirable in my view

[vlebo]

Thanks for all your input. I would spend the extra on the OO 12" dob if I thought the optics and build quality was that much better than the Skywatcher and Meade because of its size and portability. Going bigger with a 14 or 16 inch dob maybe too much to handle.

[Moonshane]

if you can afford it then I can certainly confirm that the dob bases made by OOUK (and of course the additional optical quality confidence) make for superb observing from a rock solid platform. the OOUK base is smaller, more solid and will last forever and the tube is a lot lighter then the SW equivalent. I would not buy a OOUK focuser though. much better with a baader steeltrack or similar.

[acey]

I considered OO 12" and went for Flextube 12". If you look at the price of the OO dob base you'll see it's a significant proportion of the overall price. The Flextube base does the job but it's bulky and basic - at one point I considered re-mounting the Flextube on an OO base (which looks a lot more convenient for transportation and will, I imagine, have smoother motions). I can manage with the 12" flextube base but would hesitate to go to the scaled-up 16", which although it separates into transportable pieces, looks to be a monster.

[scarp15]

At that price point, you might also consider enquiring through David Lukehurst, for a custom built 12" Truss dobsonian, with perhaps an F5.3 mirror.

[vlebo]

Thanks everyone.There seems to be slightly differing views as to the buld quality of the OO dob. I was hoping for the extra money charged it would be better than its Chinese mass produced rivals or is the extra used up in superior optics even though a better focuser is recommended ?

[Moonshane]

depends what you mean by better:

OOUK base - massively better, everlasting, smaller, lighter, smoother

OOUK mirrors - optical quality certain not random (albeit very good with Synta optics), worth it for the best nights/high magnification

OOUK focuser - own 10:1 not great but you can choose your own (e.g. a Baader for about £50 more than theirs) and get them to fit it.

[Adrian Condon]

Hi vleb,

I agree with Moonshane, Orion Optics UK have definitely put money into the production of the optics and the dob mount.

I attach my OO mount on to a marine wooden platform with three legs that I can level easier, and the lot is anchored down using tent pegs.

When more funds become available, I plan to purchase a better motor driven focuser. The focuser attached by OO is more than adequate, but I have tried some smoother (very expensive ) ones at star parties.

At night, its the better mirrors (optics), correctly aligned with good eyepieces that give the best views.

It's a difficult choice. A visit to a star party is a great way to see many different setups and get the views of the owners.

Cheers

Adrian

[vlebo]

depends what you mean by better:

OOUK base - massively better, everlasting, smaller, lighter, smoother

OOUK mirrors - optical quality certain not random (albeit very good with Synta optics), worth it for the best nights/high magnification

OOUK focuser - own 10:1 not great but you can choose your own (e.g. a Baader for about £50 more than theirs) and get them to fit it.

Hi Moonshane

By better I mean is it worth paying more than double the cost of a Flextube 300p (about £1900 with the optics upgrade and Baader Steeltrak as opposed to £850 for the Flextube ). What I am looking for is a scope purely for visual use for whenever I can get out under the stars , which is not often. I want something easy to set up and light and portable to take to dark sites whenever time permits and a keeper as I want to cut back to just one good all round scope . I do not mind spending the extra as I have recently sold all my gear and , suprisingly still have the funds to hand , but only if the OO dob is worth it. In essence will the extra outlay make that much difference at the eyepiece ( as a casual observer ) or am I better off getting the Flextube and saving some of my hardearned for some much needed upgrades.

[umadog]

Optics are always a bit of a lottery. There are some good Synta mirrors out there but also there are some bad ones that nonetheless pass their "diffraction limited" criterion. You'd be more likely to get a nice mirror if you go through OO. Another thing that I think nobody has mentioned is that the OO mirrors are thinner than those from Synta. Not only does this make it lighter, but you would see much faster cooling (cooling rate is proportional to the square of the thickness, so even millimeters matter).

Faced with the choice between an optically excellent 12" or a poor/mediocre 16", I'd opt for the 12". You'd see more. Sure, you'd probably be unlucky to get a bad 16" Synta and even if you did you could get it refigured down the line, but there's always the uncertainty.

I think a 12" f/4 would be awesome, actually. By the time you add a Paracorr you're looking at a 1400 mm focal length. Stick in a 31 mm Nagler (or cheaper clone) and you have 45x with a field of view of about 1.75 degrees. Nice! Very portable, too. Not a cheap setup but it would be superb.

[johninderby]

The thing to remember about OO is that their scopes are custom made to order and not mass production scopes and therefore can't compete on price with the mass produced Chinese scopes. Hand made goods are never cheap. However as they are custom made you can have OO make virtually any changes you want to the scope such as a different focuser and even where it's positioned, different tube (heavier gauge or extra long etc.), different colour etc. etc.

OO scopes used to have great optics but dodgy build quality (OO started out as an optics manufacturer not a scope manufacturer) but they have moved on a lot lately to bring the mechanical build quality up to the level of their optics. Have to agree though that I would choose another focuser (I did...Baader Steeltrack).

While aperture is important on DSOs, optical quality is what counts on lunar / planetary which is why with the Ultra Grade optics it makes for a better all-round scope. I got rid of my 16" Lightbridge and replaced it with an OO 14". While the OO 14" isn't better than the 16" LB on DSOs it is much better on lunar / planetary. Also while the 16" LB is rather heavy and bulky the OO 14" is hardly any heavier than a SkyWatcher 12" and very easy to move about and set up and can be stored away in a corner out of the way.

So while you can't beat the Chinese dobs for value for money, if you want something better and built just to your specs then unfortunately it will cost you more. Is it worth it......well you could save even more money and not buy a scope at all and stay inside and watch TV.

John

EDIT: Yes there is the cool down factor. The 14" cools down fairly quickly, but I used to call my 16" LB "The scope that never cools down" as even after a few hours it never seemed to settle down properly even with the aid of a cooling fan.

[umadog]

John, this has been my experience also. When I bought my 18" f/4, I did so for DSO observing. Yes, the DSO views are better than than my 12" (at least for the smaller objects, maybe not so much for the really big ones) but the real wow factor has been the planetary views.

[johninderby]

John, this has been my experience also. When I bought my 18" f/4, I did so for DSO observing. Yes, the DSO views are better than than my 12" (at least for the smaller objects, maybe not so much for the really big ones) but the real wow factor has been the planetary views.

The OO 14" with a 3.7mm Ethos SX is jawdropping on the moon, and not too shabby on Jupiter, Saturn etc. :D

John

[vlebo]

Thanks guys , encouraging words and kind of what I was hoping to hear in justifying the outlay. I think I wil give OO a call in the week and take it from there. As far as eyepieces go I have 3 Pentax XW's 30mm , 20mm and 10mm. I will probably go for a x2 Barlow for the 10mm and hopefully get the best out of the optics.

Thanks

Vlebo