Why dont manufacturers flock new scopes?

[Kevdan]

Hi all,

As the question above says really, it would be much cheeper for them and probably do a better job, also how many people realy want to mess with a new scope.

Kev

[Parus major]

The simple answer is that it's a swine to do, takes a lot of time and a customer would not accept a single flaw in the process. A single wrinkle would render tube unsellable.

[Tinker1947]

What Parus said, i done mine and its a pain to get it right, even with a skilled person it would take a bit of time and push the prices up, so if all scopes didn't have it those that did wouldn't sell so well.

[themos]

Well, if they had an industrial rig it wouldn't be so difficult, would it?

[jamespels]

TAL do it - they chop up the inside of the ali OTA and spray it matt black. Of course, the TAL OTA is a few mm thick and this is not going to work for tubes made of thin steel or composite.

[Parus major]

It would have to be hand finished, though and the process would need to be done after the tube is painted and any rig could damage the paintwork. One chip, scratch on the outside and the tube would need to be junked. One bubble, wrinkle or loose material and the tube would need to be junked.

Or you could just give the tube a matt black primer inside and out and paint the outside on one production line and be able to sell a 10" tube for £400.

[j45on]

Proper flocking is applied electrostaticaly like powder coating of paint.

[Tim]

I guess the vast majority of scopes sold remain unflocked throughout their lifespan, and only the dedicated will bother to do it.

Maybe i'll pack in the garden centre game and start a super-tuning telescopes business

[Chris]

I think this is an excellant question, and I'm sure this wouldn't be as difiicult for a large company who incorperated the flocking into the manufacturing process, as it would be for someone doing DIY, as a process would be developed to solve any issues that arise. When I worked in the manufacture of Aerospace components doing mainly CNC lathe programming and QA I witnessed lots of production line modifications easily as difficult as flocking the inside diameter of a tube.

[jimmyjamjoejoe]

Flock the sheet metal then roll it? Couldn't be too hard...

[rory]

I read on here that it can make a huge improvement.

[E621Keith]

Doesn't Televue flock the inside of their refractor instead of using knife edge baffle like everyone else.

I believe it also have a reputation of coming off in more hot and humid climate.

[umadog]

They don't flock them because the profit margins are small and they want to sell a functional scope for as little possible. Flocking is the least of it: there're plenty of other things they "should" be doing but aren't because of the margins they're working with. For example, the bearings on some Dobs (even mid-range ones like the 8" Inteliscope from Orion) are pretty awful even though it's easy to produce one with good bearings. Then there are those awkward set screws for secondary adjustment. There's the dodgy grease and plastic gears in many (most?) Chinese SCTs. The heavy chip-board bases on Dobs. I could go on... This stuff is unlikely to change because the gear works and it sells.

[malc-c]

Two rolls of flocking retail for £14, so for argument sake say it costs £10 retail to flock a 200P, so take in to account the cost off the manufacturing plant, the quantity of telescopes that synta produce then I can't see that this would have a huge additional cost on the end product.

Apply it to the tube pre-rolling and it could be done in a mechanical process rather than requiring labor - then simply cap the ends and focuser holes prior to the finish process (powder coating ?)

[todd8137]

For the same reason they give you rubbish eps with a new scope,so you buy new better ones,if it was needed in scopes they would come with it as standard.i did my 300p and to be honest it looks great but did not make any difference.to the the contrast it may have cut down,on stray light,but my garden is dark any way

[Kevdan]

Proper flocking is applied electrostaticaly like powder coating of paint.

I thought it would be done by some meathod like this.

[umadog]

Malcom,

It's obviously not a huge cost. Neither is replacing the set screws with proper knobs: that would cost a few pennies and probably require no alterations to their lines. Yet we still have those crappy set screws. Both of these things are cost increases that aren't necessary to get a functional telescope. With low profit margins you don't mess with a formula that works and their formula works. That is why they aren't in a hurry to flock tubes.

As a side note, I doubt a lot of this is machine assembled. All the electronics that come out of China are assembled by hand because it's cheaper that way. Electronics are far more fiddly than assembling telescopes. Think about it: all the tiny components are soldered onto the PCBs by hand. The media like to focus on Apple, but everything (Toshiba, Lenovo, ATI, Intel, Sony, Nintendo, Dell, etc) comes out of here: Nightline Shows Apple's iPad & iPhone Foxconn Assembly Lines (Video)

[Kevdan]

I saw the protostar flocking tubes which look very good, cost more than flocking but a better finish.

Kev.

[Andrew-77]

Is flocking worth the hassle to a noob? I've a 200p and I'm aware that there are a number of (relatively) inexpensive things I can do to improve my experience. Flocking was something I was considering, but I'm not sure I want to dismantle my scope if the benefits are going to be negligible.

[Parus major]

Personally, I don't think it's negligible, for me the lack of glare, increased contrast and sharpness is rather profound. It's not as bad if you have done you're first bit since you get better as you go. The hard bit if you struggle with it will be the collimation afterwards so I'd leave it until you have that down cold and the tube is past it's year warranty. It may be hard to explain away you taking the tube to bits if the coatings fail through no fault of your own.

[Andrew-77]

Good points both. I haven't actually attempted collimation yet, I was going to have a stab at it this week, now that the evenings are lighter. I think I will leave it until the warranty is up. There's plenty of stuff I can do without resorting to the toolbox.